Advice on first AR

[Guest tumbleweed]

I'm considering my first AR and with so many to research, I'm asking for input. I want a complete rifle and don't want to build one yet. What should I look for and/or ask about? Thanks in advance for your advice.

[hkusp40cal]

I would say take someone with you that knows the platform. What would be recommended would depend on what you want to do with it and what is in your budget. One thing to check is the staking on the gas keys. As an example, I had a 90's vintage Bushmaster and the staking was as good as on any rifle I have seen. Having looked at some fairly recent ones, that seems to not get done as well anymore. Of course that isn't something that can't be fixed. Are you going to go for target shooting (match) then get a 20" + barrel. If it is for plinking then any AR from the usual suspects would be fine and you can pick one up for around $700 or less. If you plan on taking a carbine class with it, then you would want to get one from a top tier company (Colt, LMT, Noveske, LWRC, etc).

[chuck]

You need to figure out what you are going to use rifle for how much you want to spend and start there . MOST any name brand guns should be GTG.there are a lot of accessories and stiles you may want to check out other forums like AR15.com some of the info. you get there maybe useful just dont take it all as the gospel just remember you get what you pay for most times . and cheaper ant all ways better.

[Dolomite_supafly]

A few things from experience.

Chamber dimensions. If there is even a small chance you might actaully fire surplus 5.56 ammo then get the 5.56 chamber. If you always plan on shooting 223 or reload then get the 223 chamber. Firing 223 in a 5.56 chamber is not dangerous but it is not as accurate as firing 223 in a 223 chamber. Now firing 5.56 in a 223 chamber can lead to serious pressure issues because there is less throat in the chamber. The reason for this is to allow the 5.56 pressures to start to drop before the resistance spikes. If you have a 223 chamber, which has a short throat, and fire 5.56 you can have problems because the pressure scan not drop before the bullet hits the rifling. Another thing that contributes to this is that 5.56 pressures are spec'd at 62K psi while 223 is 52K psi.

Do not be tempted to get a 14.5" barrel with a pinned flash hider. If you do there is a ton of work to do before you can change anything on the upper and it costs money. The gas block/FSB can not be removed without removing the flash hider unless you grind the gas block/FSB off and replace it with a bolt on one. And if you can't get the gas block off you can't swap the handguards for a free float tube if you decide later you want one. Trust me as well as anyone else who owns one, you will upgrade.

Buy a new, complete rifle that is a brand name. Every manufacturer out there has sold stripped lowers and with that you have no idea of the other components used to build the used gun that is a deal. Used guns are fine until you get ti home and realize there was a reason it was being sold. Brand new, quality, brand name rifles can be had for less than $800.

Chrome lining is good for longevity but not so great for accuracy. I would consider either chrome lined or SS barrel for long term durability. Both offer great resistance to corrosion and require little maintance. The SS tends to be more accurate over all than chrome lined barrels. Now individual guns that have chrome lined might shoot better than SS but as a general rule SS tends to shoot better than chrome lined. Chrome lined does last longer than SS but from most users they will never see the end of their barrel's life span. Both genrally cost the same so it comes down to aesthetics, whether you want a SS barrel or a flat black barrel. I media blast my SS to turn them a dull gray.

Carbine gas system lengths are hard on the bolt parts but also offer the most reliability. Rifle length gas systems are easier on the parts but may not be as reliable as the carbine length system, especially with some of the imported ammunition. Midlength gas systems off the best of both worlds but lack the aftermarket parts that are available for the carbine or rifle length gas systems. If it were me I would go with a carbine system.

Twist rates, the cool aid seems to be 7 twist barrels these days. They will shoot everything up to 80 grain bullets but on the flip side you will loose velocity and barrel life. Even a 7 twist barrel will shoot 40 grain bullets just fine without blowing them apart so all you need to worry about is the upper end. 9 twist barrels shoot everything up to 69 grain well and suffer less from the velocity losses and barrel life issues. The original design was a 12 twist barrel to shoot 55 grain bullets. Figure out what you are going to use the rifle for the most then go with the slowest twist that fits your bullets needs. 9 twist is what I always try to get because it works well with 55 grain bullets, the most common, without the velocity loss or wear of a 7 twist barrel.

I am sure there are going to be some others who offer up their own advice on this. Take what I have said with a grain of salt and not as gospel but it does give you some more mind boggling things to research before purchasing that AR.

Dolomite

[Kilo0811]

Great advice to follow but after building and shooting so many I think that i have owned a product from every company in the market. If your wanting a factory built weapon then RRA is the best bang for the buck. Come with the NM trigger, hogue, and they have great customer service, and also they all come with a set of iron sights except the predator and varmint series. Also going with a factory weapon means getting box and paper work. Don t customize and tear your first AR done keep it stock, know it, shoot it, test different loads of ammo.

AS far as twist rate goes then 1/9 is standard and since your first AR then i assume that your not comp shooting w black hills 69 gr anytime soon. Most of your civilian m4 and a4 weapons are chambered in 5.56 NATO and 1/9 twist rate. 1 turn in 9". BC the 55gr and 62 GR are the most common round and can be purchase at almost anywhere that sells ammo and its an effective round. I shoot sub moa at 400 with my 20" 1/9 and 62gr ss109.

Back to your "Build". Before you build an AR-15 remember that everyone has their own preference and opinion and we all like different things. So keep your first one you purchase the way it is and just learn the weapon. Replace parts that are very simple and always keep the factory take-offs. This way you can sample parts that you may want but realize they are not for you. For example free-floating a weapon means taking the FSB off, the FH, and then the Barrel Nut w/Delta assembly. Try a 2 piece rail system so you get the feel of a quad and etc. WHen you are ready to build your first one from scratch it gets almost hard to do but when you decide to build with so many differnt parts from the lower to your Flash-hider to the stock. . . Selling it in the future is almost impossible and you will never get the money back. So your first AR get to know like the back of your hand yet keeping it simple as far as replacing parts. I have found that getting up with someone that has a couple different setups or even parts i am looking at is the way to go before the purchase.

I have a range and maybe one day a few of us can get together and shoot. The first M4 i had was a Bushmaster 16" a# that i changed and changed and eventually went back to my first few changes. I shot it for 3 years before I built my Lifetime AR and 3K in a weapon that is not a 50 bmg or Styer Scout seems stupid. I have killed deer with it,my sister has killed deer at 200 yards, i can shoot 55 or 75gr. Iron or red dot 50 or 400 yards you get my point.

Hope this has helped , just remember that to each his own and you might be a Del-Ton guy where I am a RRA. But remember that you will never go wrong with any product from larue tactical or Lewis Machine: and make sure you are at least getting a Wilson barrel

[TNRat]

I'm considering my first AR and with so many to research, I'm asking for input. I want a complete rifle and don't want to build one yet. What should I look for and/or ask about? Thanks in advance for your advice.

I have read of some having great luck with the following method from Bravo Company Manufacturing:

• Buy a complete upper with bolt group. Very simple to very extravagant can be had. You can legally have this shipped to your house.
  
• Buy a complete lower and have it shipped to your FFL. It will have to registered before you can take it home.
  

The quality is first rate for this company. You will pay shipping on both items. Since ordering through the mail from a company outside of TN (assuming you are a TN resident) you will not pay taxes on the upper. This will save you some money. Below are links for the upper and lower section of the website.

Upper Receiver Groups AR 15

BCM Lower Receiver Groups M4 AR15

Below is a simple, inexpensive upper that would build a great AR to learn on that will fill many needs until you can determine what you want exactly. The lower can be had for $270, the least exepensive upper for $610 with bolt group. Figuring another $30 for handgaurds and $50 for rear sight you are at less than $1,000 before shipping and taxes.

BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group

My buddy bought the below rifle from a local dealer and after rebates and sales he was into it for about $900 before the accessories like Eotech and rail. It is a Smith M&P and is shooting great even with milsurp ammo.

[mikegideon]

I am sure there are going to be some others who offer up their own advice on this. Take what I have said with a grain of salt and not as gospel but it does give you some more mind boggling things to research before purchasing that AR.

Dolomite

IMO, you should take Dolomite's advice with more than a grain of salt. When it comes to AR's, he get's it. He helped me wade through a lot of this stuff.

[Guest 73challenger]

My advice is to buy a mid length Spikes Tactical upper from AIM surplus for $500 and a Spikes stripped lower for $80. Then buy whatever LPK, buffer tube, rear sight and stock you like. I would suggest a AR from BCM, Spikes, Colt, DD ie a "top tier" rifle. You can learn more than you ever want to know on ar15.com.

[bigwakes]

For entry ARs Smith makes a good one for a great price. I would start with iron sights and not move to optics until you get very consistent shot groups.

[chadbuddy]

Found this on another forum a while back... might be worth a read. Some of the same points that others have made but a few new ones.

So you want to buy an AR-15, huh?

[Guest Grudgie]

Chamber dimensions. If there is even a small chance you might actaully fire surplus 5.56 ammo then get the 5.56 chamber. If you always plan on shooting 223 or reload then get the 223 chamber. Firing 223 in a 5.56 chamber is not dangerous but it is not as accurate as firing 223 in a 223 chamber. Now firing 5.56 in a 223 chamber can lead to serious pressure issues because there is less throat in the chamber. The reason for this is to allow the 5.56 pressures to start to drop before the resistance spikes. If you have a 223 chamber, which has a short throat, and fire 5.56 you can have problems because the pressure scan not drop before the bullet hits the rifling. Another thing that contributes to this is that 5.56 pressures are spec'd at 62K psi while 223 is 52K psi.

I did not know this. Not meaning to threadjack, but can you tell me if my rifle is chambered for 5.56 or .223? It's a Bushmaster XM15 E2S. It is advertised as a .223/5.56 nato, but I have no idea.

[DRM]

Don't over think it - just buy one and start shooting.

Next thing you know *poof* and you've bought 4 of them over the last few years

[JeffL]

I did not know this. Not meaning to threadjack, but can you tell me if my rifle is chambered for 5.56 or .223? It's a Bushmaster XM15 E2S. It is advertised as a .223/5.56 nato, but I have no idea.

Your Bushmaster is 5.56. Look on top of the barrel towards the muzzle. It's marked B MP 5.56 NATO 1/9.

[JoeBobOutfitters]

I'd probably look at a 9" free float quad-rail handguard midlength upper. This seems to be the most popular option these days for a reason, IMO. The midlength gas system will be a little softer shooting and less hard on components than a carbine, which isn't needed unless you want super short barrels.

We've got some Spike's Midlength M4-LE 9" BAR Rail uppers en route right now. Arguably one of the better deals out there for what you're getting out of the box. They've been backordered since October...and we've had customers wait the entire time for them. We've still got some unaccounted for in this shipment. If you use coupon code "TN" you get 5% off our entire website. We sell a decent variety of AR upgrades and normal parts and pieces.

I'd first decide what gas system you want, if you want a Front Sight Post or not, and then what size handguard. I would recommend buying your first AR upper "built" if possible. The lowers are relatively easy to assemble, but the uppers are much more complex and need more tools to do so. For the most part, an AR lower is an AR lower, so even "offbrands" are generally good to go. Some brands have more or less fit and finish, but they'll all get the job done. You can go with the standard handguards and always upgrade later if you want. The Magpul MOE Handguards are a pretty inexpensive upgrade to standard Carbine or Midlength handguards that aren't freefloated.

Edited February 3, 2011 by JoeBobOutfitters

[LA_357SIG]

Since I spend a lot of time on TOS, I would go and recommend a midlength carbine from Spikes Tactical and Bravo Company. And before anyone jumps on the milspec wagon I only recommend them because they are close enough in price to the lesser quality commercial brands. The more research you do on what makes an exceptional AR15 you will already be ahead of the learning curve. I also like Smith and Wesson. CDNN has a sale on them.

[Guest Hound_Dog]

I've heard great things about Bravo Company. Whenever I get around to ordering my next upper I'll be ordering it from them.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bravo Company is 100% milspec in everything they build and then some. Spike's, although good, isn't as high of quality as Bravo Company. Most people are not going to see the difference or wear out a Spike's setup so for most it doesn't matter if it is milspec or not.

What people seem to think is tht milspec is the highest standard but in fact milspec is the lowest standard. It is there to make sure a minimum set of standards is met by manufacturers. Milspec is good but realize it does not gurantee it is the best because it is a minimum standard and not the best standard. Think of it like school grades, just because D is passing doesn't make the student the best even though the student meet the minumum to pass. Milspec is the same way, as long as milspec is met they pass a certain standard. Is it the best standard, far from it but it is the standard the government chose as the minimum to keep our military safe. Bravo company is above the milspec standard on a lot of their parts as well as whole rifles. As a matter of fact Bravo Company goes above and beyond what Colt does because Colt builds theirs to meet the minimum standard as set forth in the milspec standards. There are several makers that fall into the same category, they go well beyond the minimum required to be called "milspec".

And before someone jumps in screaming I am a Bravo Company fan boy, I do not own a single Bravo Company part. I never have but I may some day. I built my AR's from the ground up selecting components individually to ensure a quality rifle.

Dolomite

[Guest buttonhook]

I built my first one with some help for people on here....I can say I love it!! and glad I built it becuase it is noew the way I want it and I know what part are in /on it!!