Organizing a "TN Open Carry Day"

[Guest adamoxtwo]

so if you want to pick my opinion apart I will say (having been a First Sergeant) I didn't want some of my soldiers handling a weapon on the range let a lone in public. It's not that Clarksville is crime free so don't get butt hurt that I don't agree with you. As I said it's my opinion that if they are going to carry I FEEL let me say that again I FEEL the Military should be the one to clear them to. Some soldiers are not mature enough to handle that responsibility. Like it or not they are property of the United States Government and they are wired differently the most civilian individuals. For what it is worth the crime topic (guns in vehicles) I'm from Philadelphia originally and it's pretty easy to spot a target if you really wanted to. Hang out near a bar or other establishment that Firearms are not allowed and look for someone who makes a mistake and reveals a weapon in their car. It's not rocket science it common sense.

[Guest db99wj]

so if you want to pick my opinion apart I will say (having been a First Sergeant) I didn't want some of my soldiers handling a weapon on the range let a lone in public. It's not that Clarksville is crime free so don't get butt hurt that I don't agree with you. As I said it's my opinion that if they are going to carry I FEEL let me say that again I FEEL the Military should be the one to clear them to. Some soldiers are not mature enough to handle that responsibility. Like it or not they are property of the United States Government and they are wired differently the most civilian individuals. For what it is worth the crime topic (guns in vehicles) I'm from Philadelphia originally and it's pretty easy to spot a target if you really wanted to. Hang out near a bar or other establishment that Firearms are not allowed and look for someone who makes a mistake and reveals a weapon in their car. It's not rocket science it common sense.

Wow are you F'n serious? I'm glad you weren't my 1st Sgt. and it's a shame that you actually feel that way about your men. I understand there are some in the ranks but you are applying this to all. Wow again.

[RobertNashville]

so if you want to pick my opinion apart I will say (having been a First Sergeant) I didn't want some of my soldiers handling a weapon on the range let a lone in public. It's not that Clarksville is crime free so don't get butt hurt that I don't agree with you. As I said it's my opinion that if they are going to carry I FEEL let me say that again I FEEL the Military should be the one to clear them to. Some soldiers are not mature enough to handle that responsibility. Like it or not they are property of the United States Government and they are wired differently the most civilian individuals.

I'm not trying to pick your opinion apart; I am trying to understand it and to reconcile it with the freedoms this country was founded on and purports to cherish.

I'm sure that there are plenty of private citizens who aren't skilled with handling a weapon (no matter what their age)...I'm sure there are more than few cops in that same category and I'm sure there are some sergeants and privates and generals in that boat as well. However, thankfully, very, very thankfully, rights, if they are a right at all, aren't (or at least aren't supposed to be) dolled out by governments (or company commanders).

If I have the right to carry and if you have the right to carry then THEY have the right to carry no mater what you or I think about their abilities and if that isn't true then the right to carry is not a right at all.

I appreciate your service...I, too was a sergeant (although I was called a Petty Officer)...I only served eight yeas active but I know a little bit about how young military recruits are "wired" and I know how a lot of them today are wired as quite a few of the guys currently at Campbell are good friends of mine...I think your idea that some CO should be able to take their rights away at a whim is a poor idea and not what this country is about. If these young men and women are old enough and "stable" enough to fight, bleed and die for this country then they sure as hell are good enough to carry a weapon on their person; just like you or I can.

If you diminish the rights of one; you've diminished the rights of all.

[Guest db99wj]

I'm not trying to pick your opinion apart; I am trying to understand it and to reconcile it with the freedoms this country was founded on and purports to cherish.

I'm sure that there are plenty of private citizens who aren't skilled with handling a weapon (no matter what their age)...I'm sure there are more than few cops in that same category and I'm sure there are some sergeants and privates and generals in that boat as well. However, thankfully, very, very thankfully, rights, if they are a right at all, aren't (or at least aren't supposed to be) dolled out by governments (or company commanders).

If I have the right to carry and if you have the right to carry then THEY have the right to carry no mater what you or I think about their abilities and if that isn't true then the right to carry is not a right at all.

I appreciate your service...I, too was a sergeant (although I was called a Petty Officer)...I only served eight yeas active but I know a little bit about how young military recruits are "wired" and I know how a lot of them today are wired as quite a few of the guys currently at Campbell are good friends of mine...I think your idea that some CO should be able to take their rights away at a whim is a poor idea and not what this country is about. If these young men and women are old enough and "stable" enough to fight, bleed and die for this country then they sure as hell are good enough to carry a weapon on their person; just like you or I can.

If you diminish the rights of one; you've diminished the rights of all.

This. You put it a lot better than me! I was a Sergeant as well.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

Wow are you F'n serious? I'm glad you weren't my 1st Sgt. and it's a shame that you actually feel that way about your men. I understand there are some in the ranks but you are applying this to all. Wow again.

Just saying that the Senior NCO's should be able to restrict the ability for some soldiers to carry a weapon during the non duty day. Listen I'm not trying to restrict I'm trying to be safe. There are soldiers coming back with sever Psychological issues and Substance Abuse issues. Drugs, Alcohol, PTSD (IMHO) = ask the person who knows them best that's their Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant and Company Commander.

And I agree I think it's a damn shame that I had to fear Soldier's Competency on the range. The problem is they don't shoot enough (I was support not Infantry) and unless you shoot often and with good instruction it is impossible to expect proficiency.

[RobertNashville]

Just saying that the Senior NCO's should be able to restrict the ability for some soldiers to carry a weapon during the non duty day. Listen I'm not trying to restrict I'm trying to be safe. There are soldiers coming back with sever Psychological issues and Substance Abuse issues. Drugs, Alcohol, PTSD (IMHO) = ask the person who knows them best that's their Squad Leader, Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant and Company Commander.

And I agree I think it's a damn shame that I had to fear Soldier's Competency on the range. The problem is they don't shoot enough (I was support not Infantry) and unless you shoot often and with good instruction it is impossible to expect proficiency.

I understand your concerns and I don't discount the problem...I have concerns about some people myself. Bottom line is, I believe we already have a method for handling a HCP holder who is subsequently known to be addicted to drugs or has psychological problems and that is the method that should be followed - restricting someone's HCP should never simply be up to an individual, even if that individual is a squad leader or a company commander.

That aside, if a soldier is having such problems as you describe then the Army ought to be doing a hell of a lot more about it than simply saying he/she can't carry a weapon off post and if the Army isn't then shame on them.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I understand your concerns and I don't discount the problem...I have concerns about some people myself. Bottom line is, I believe we already have a method for handling a HCP holder who is subsequently known to be addicted to drugs or has psychological problems and that is the method that should be followed - restricting someone's HCP should never simply be up to an individual, even if that individual is a squad leader or a company commander.

That aside, if a soldier is having such problems as you describe then the Army ought to be doing a hell of a lot more about it than simply saying he/she can't carry a weapon off post and if the Army isn't then shame on them.

I don't disagree. It's a shame because we as leaders are restricted to what we can do because politics have infiltrated the Military in an extremely bad way.

[Guest Grudgie]

The logical thinking side of me knows it makes sence to not have an open carry display. It might intimidate people and cause us to lose what little rights they allow us to have.

And then the emotional pasionate side of me sees myself too afraid to excersize my right for fear of it being taken away. I take a step back and ask, "What kind of freedom do we truly have then, if it is so fragile?" Did Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and the founders carefully plot away to some day appeal for independence? No, they slapped their John Hancocks on a piece of parchment and declared their independence and their rights.

I don't think of you any less for seeing the more logical side, but freedoms that are afraid to be preformed is not freedom at all.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Grudgie

[Guest Drewsett]

the Military should be the one to clear them to.

I have no issue with that, they did sign on the dotted line after all. However, it would be nice for them to have a similar process as getting the CLEO to sign off on an NFA item. The CO could substitute, with a shall-issue policy and if the CO thinks that soldier shouldn't have a HCP then he has to prove it, perhaps with the next man up in the chain of command, or in a military court proceeding. But I digress...

I still think that a peaceful "demonstration" could be a positive newsmaking event for gun owners. We need to "humanize" ourselves as gun owners to all these Yankee transplants who've moved here over the last several years. They have little exposure to firearms, and the exposure they do have is rarely positive. An "event" that would raise awareness of gun owners in general, especially one that highlights the fact that gun owners come from all walks of life and are our friends and neighbors could do great things for us at the ballot box if we ever get pro-carry referendums on the ballot.

I'm thinking long term strategy here. A conversation started up about your empty OWB holster could end with an invitation to a gun range, and maybe even a conversion of someone raised as an anti just because they didn't know any better. It doesn't have to be an empty holster, I guess it could be a button...or whatever. I just want to start a conversation...as I and others have noted, when one side is doing all of the talking, the public only hears one side of the story. That story is DEFINITELY not a good one for gun owners. Why not try to tell a different story? I for one think we missed a golden opportunity with Brian Haas and the Tennessean to tell our story...granted, the most recent story was not about a gun owner we particularly like, and thankfully Mike and Mr. Harris(I think that was his name --TFA dude) did a wonderful job on our behalf, maybe we shouldn't be so dismissive in the future.

[RobertNashville]

...We need to "humanize" ourselves as gun owners to all these Yankee transplants who've moved here over the last several years They have little exposure to firearms, and the exposure they do have is rarely positive.

Not only is the above a huge pile of "AAA" ; it's also a damn bigoted comment to make.

Edited February 2, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest adamoxtwo]

We need to "humanize" ourselves as gun owners to all these Yankee transplants who've moved here over the last several years. They have little exposure to firearms, and the exposure they do have is rarely positive.

OK so as a "Yankee" I was also shooting NRA competition in 1988 (which made me just under 8 years old). So please don't tell me about what a "Yankee" knows and doesn't know. The bigger issue is with cities like Nashville have become so Liberal they can't even get the school books straight. These are the people that dictate out State. They represent their next election as opposed to the people who put them in office.

The reason a March is not a good idea is simply because no one will listen and the media will be there to support turmoil and will find any way to put a negative twist to it. If you want to afflict change and get back to your rights teach your children how to be a respectful adults who reads the constitution and knows what it really means. Get the TV remote out of their hand and give them a gun. Teach them to Hunt and Fish and to respect the planet and all of it's creatures. Everyone wants to change what they can't instead of focusing their energy on what they can. OC....CC who gives a ****. Get a gun, defend yourself and hold on to your rights as hard as you can and don't give them up for anyone.

[Guest Drewsett]

Text rarely can convey intent. That comment was made tounge-in-cheek. I lived several years in the great white north and know there to be gun enthusiasts from all states. Removing the yankee part does not negate the validity of my comments in general, however. The news on the street is that we're a bunch of crazy potential Jared Loughners.

What should be do to combat the negative PR? Nothing? Seems to have worked so well for us up to this point

[RobertNashville]

Text rarely can convey intent. That comment was made tounge-in-cheek. I lived several years in the great white north and know there to be gun enthusiasts from all states. Removing the yankee part does not negate the validity of my comments in general, however. The news on the street is that we're a bunch of crazy potential Jared Loughners.

What should be do to combat the negative PR? Nothing? Seems to have worked so well for us up to this point

Glad to hear it was made in jest - please consider my prior comments regarding the statement withdrawn.

As to what to do, I think we keep doing what we've been doing...going about our law-abiding lives and not adding to the misconceptions that abound while concurrently working within the legislative and legal process to regain and expand our firearm related rights. I suggest that any sort of "in your face" actions (or actions that could easily be misconstrued as such) should be avoided as I believe they have little "up side" and much "down side" potential.

I say the above because it seems to me that most of the "anti-gun" crowd and those who are sympathetic to their position are so because of emotion; not because of logic or fact. If that is true, then we need to be reluctant to do things that could reinforce their emotion-based arguments.

Edited February 2, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest FTG-05]

I'm a supporter of OC but don't do it myself mainly because of my job. I have great respect for those that take the risk to do it themselves, however.

I'm frequent lurker over on both the Open Carry and Alabama Open Carry forums. There are numerous threads over there discussing the positives and negatives of OC. IMO, most of the negatives posted on this board are way overboard and do not reflect reality.

We can choose to go meekly into the night - or at least give that impression we are since there is no visible evidence we aren't (i.e. no one knows your carrying if CC). Or we can choose to stand up and say "No". Quietly, calmly and without rancor.

Most of the stories I've read about OC have been overwhelmingly positive. Not all by any means, but certainly not the "kiss of death" as some here would have you believe.

And the result:

- More and more police being educated on our rights to OC in various states, settings and venues.

- More and more businesses being educated, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively (to their bottom line) about our rights to OC and guns in general.

- More and more people being educated about our gun rights. And more importantly, that guns aren't "evil".

Out of sight, out of mind. OC, done as discussed above, brings it to the forefront and usually in a positive way.

While I'm not in a life position yet to carry, I applaud those like DRM that are doing it, thinking about doing it or are thinking about new ways of doing it so it's puts us in a positive light. Well done.

My .02.

Edited March 4, 2011 by FTG-05

[RobertNashville]

...While I'm not in a life position yet to carry, I applaud those like DRM that are doing it, thinking about doing it and are thinking about new ways of doing it so it's puts us in a positive light. Well done.

Actually...DRM doesn't (per his own words) open carry; apparently, he just had nothing better to do one day than start another pointless thread about OC vs CC.

[Guest FTG-05]

Actually...DRM doesn't (per his own words) open carry; apparently, he just had nothing better to do one day than start another pointless thread about OC vs CC.

Very well, I replaced "and" with "or". My conclusion, and point, remain the same: Well Done.

[DRM]

apparently, he just had nothing better to do one day than start another pointless thread about OC vs CC.

It's only pointless to people who can't grasp the concept of an intellectual discussion about a topic.

[mikegideon]

One good thing about these open carry threads... it has made me think about it a lot. I can see both sides, at least. There are a lot of places where it could get the desired results, and other places where you can count on having a problem. Those of us that wind up venturing into Liberal territory a lot are obviously going to be less likely to support it than those that never have to be exposed to those folks. There are parts of Nashville that I just won't show a gun, because it's not worth the reaction I'm going to get. There are other places that are perfectly fine.

[RobertNashville]

It's only pointless to people who can't grasp the concept of an intellectual discussion about a topic.

^^^ Bovine Scatology of the purest kind.

We all "grasped the concept" just fine and there had been pge after page of intelligent discussion about the topic...you just can't grasp the concept that intelligent discussion doesn't mean everybody agrees with you.

Why don't you do something useful and start another parking lot thread??? ROTFLMAO

[mikegideon]

start another parking lot thread

... or we can do it right here. If you encounter a skunk in the parking lot, and he raises his tail, can you bust a cap in his ass? Or, is it your duty to retreat?

[RobertNashville]

start another parking lot thread

... or we can do it right here. If you encounter a skunk in the parking lot, and he raises his tail, can you bust a cap in his ass? Or, is it your duty to retreat?

I try not to park in parking lots where skunks (two or four legged) hang around but if a four-legged kind raises his tail at me I would generally just try to retreat rather than use deadly force.

Killing a skunk simply for doing what skunks do just doesn't seem right to me.

[mikegideon]

I HATE skunks. Been attacked before.

[RobertNashville]

I've never had one attack me.

I do remember one day when I had just finished plowing one of our fields and I was walking from the tractor to my car that just as I reached the road, a skunk popped out of the ditch that separated the fence line from the road, walked within a few inches of my feet...I held my breath for what seemed like an eternity because had he/she decided to spray me I would have gotten sprayed. However, he just kept on walking like I wasn't even there.

[Guest]

I apologize because I did not read all 9 pages of posts, but, if no one open carries, then when under pressure from the left why would those in government put up a big fight if "no one cares"? But if everyone open carries, then it's similar to "2 million memebers in the NRA" or what not. I open carry regularly, and see no reason not to. Honestly most people don't even seem to notice. Those that do don't seem to have an issue. I've gone into gas stations, banks, grocery stores, and only ever had one person make a comment (asked if I was a HCP holder). It sparked a conversation at Lowes with an ex-LEO about our preferred handguns. Show that the right is important to you and that people actually care about it. If no one cares, then those with their heads on the chopping block (in gov) have no reason to defend it.

That said, there are times to use discretion, obviously. If you were to carry in a bar which was not posted anti-gun, then inside the waiste might be wise. But normally, what's the big deal? The fact that LEO's, who are probably more likely than anyone to be shot at, don't pay any attention says to me that no one really cares if you open carry. It's just how you carry your defensive weapon. Why don't we turn the debate into wallet or money clip?

My 2 rounds. err, cents.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Guest