Organizing a "TN Open Carry Day"

[mikegideon]

That is kinda my point. People are listening because only one side is talking to them.

Just HOW do we as gun owners best get them to listen to us is the question and I sure dont have the answer to that. Maybe there really isnt one.

A GG CC'ing or OC'ing could save dozens of lives tomorrow and the Antis would find a way to spin that in a negative light.

I really think the OP was only trying to find an answer of how best to get folks to listen to our side. As I said it may not be possible, Anti's dont mix well with common sense and logic but they are the only ones talking to the people right now and that is what somehow we need to change.

Small picnics on local levels is all I can come up with. If I knew more people I may would try to organize one myself but I dont.

Bottom line is just that I dont like to see all the arguing between ourselves when we are all really on the same side, I cant say for sure but I would bet that a lot those like myself who only CC would come to the aid of those who OC if the right was threatened. Just a guess though.

... and he may have hit on a great answer. The button/ribbon idea could be a positive move. The NRA is being quiet for a reason right now, and they do this stuff for a living. In my humble opinion, they do a pretty good job of it. Do you really want to risk swinging this the wrong way? We're up to our necks in Chicken Littles right now. Doesn't make sense to create any more.

[RobertNashville]

...

Apparently anything that happened before you started shaving is simply not in your frame of reference...at least life is simple when one assumes that all they need to know about is what has happened in the past ten or fifteen years!

It also makes life simple to present assumptions and assertions as if they are equivalent to evidence and facts...claims of stories that you are unwilling to post even one link to (which would seem to be incredibly easy for you given how they apparently litter the forum like spilled popcorn at a movie theater) will remain unsupported claims until you chose to support them.

As to "raising a stink"; the majority of the angst here here is coming from a few who seem to be hypersensitive to the subject of open carry - they seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with their decision to open carry is concurrently attacking open carry. What makes the angst more puzzling here is that this thread was not about whether one should or should not open carry...apparently, however, some think it is.

Edited January 31, 2011 by RobertNashville

[NextExit]

Anyone seeing why the first thread was closed yet?.....

Uh huh... surprised it's lasted this long.

OC... CC... I don't really care. That's up to you. Some people like to OC their wallet by a chain hanging off their belt. I don't advertise what I have.

[strickj]

Apparently anything that happened before you started shaving is simply not in (and perhaps not capable of being in) your frame of reference...at least life is simple when one assumes that all they need to know about is what has happened in the past ten or fifteen years.

Anything that happened before TN started issuing HCPs is irrelevant to the discussion of carrying guns with a HCP.

I'll ask again, have there been any negative laws passed in TN since it became an issue state?

As to "raising a stink"; the majority of the stink being raised here is coming from a few who seem to be hypersensitive to the subject of open carry and consider anyone who doesn't agree with their decision to be attacking their choice. Which seems rather odd since this thread was not about whether one should or should not open carry...apparently, however, you and some others think it is.

I never initiated the debate. I did defend against some negatives in this thread until I was jumped on. Go back and read my first two posts.

Seems you and several others felt the need to put your opinions into the mix where it wasn't asked for.

The OP didn't ask if OC was bad. The OP asked who would be up for an "OC day".

I said I would be.

You, Sir, are the one who jumped in with why it shouldn't happen. You(and others), are the one(s) who turned it into an OC vs CC thread. Not me.

It would be no different then someone posting "Glocks suck and here's why..." into a thread about why someone like's their Glock.

[DRM]

More realistic exchange of ideas… what does that mean?

More structured areas? You think it would go over better somewhere else?

Come on man…. Don’t get all butt hurt. You pitched an idea and it didn't go over like you planned. As I said you weren't the first to come up with that idea.

Dave, when you figure out how not to be condescending (throughout this thread, actually), I might try taking your advice seriously.

BTW, this makes two threads where you've maid claims, been called on them - and can't seem to back them up with facts. I'm starting to see a trend.

As I said - thanks to those who know how to listen, instead of just barging into a thread and acting like they have all the answers. That's how ideas get exchanged and change takes place

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I see everyone's point here. I will simply say that I do not oppose this. However, I do not support it either. It takes one person to ruin this event and turn it into a media frenzy. I know Arizona isn't the best example, but with open carry legal there it will draw comparison. It's not about throwing mud in people's face. It's about what the politicians will do to you. I fear the day that Open carry is acceptable in all 50 states at the same time.....because that would most likely mean that we are in a revolution of sorts and if it comes to that... God help us all. It's not being afraid of the politicians it's being smart. I wasn't afraid of my high school principle, but I knew he could make my life a living hell so I didn't give him any reason to take anything away from me. If you want to carry a handgun.....pay the money, sit in a class and get the permit.

[Guest Drewsett]

... and he may have hit on a great answer. The button/ribbon idea could be a positive move. The NRA is being quiet for a reason right now, and they do this stuff for a living. In my humble opinion, they do a pretty good job of it. Do you really want to risk swinging this the wrong way? We're up to our necks in Chicken Littles right now. Doesn't make sense to create any more.

If the country returned to its roots and everyone one had the 2nd Amendment rights our forefathers intended, everyone at the NRA would be out of a job...ever think of that? It's in their interest to "keep the rights we have" rather than really fight to expand them.

To quote our President, maybe this is a "teachable moment". I've seen more Bradys on TV lately than I care to think about, maybe it's time we got some press of gun owners not being whackjobs? People as a whole can be pretty stupid... if the only interaction they ever have with gun owners is hearing about how another one shot a whole bunch of people, they're going to start thinking that anyone who owns a gun is at risk to shoot a whole bunch of people. When the news runs stories about crazy gun owners 24/7 following a crisis like this, they only further cement that belief in the minds of the sheeple.

I don't know how effective a button would be. The statement isn't really bold enough.

Obviously OC of a weapon is bold enough to make a statement, but many here feel it is too bold.

Perhaps we could take a page from the books of those who have gone before us and have an OC day as a protest, but carry an empty OC-style holster.

I'm not suggesting anyone necessarily go unarmed (I know many of you have BUG's galore), but it would be an interesting way of starting a conversation.

[mikegideon]

If the country returned to its roots and everyone one had the 2nd Amendment rights our forefathers intended, everyone at the NRA would be out of a job...ever think of that? It's in their interest to "keep the rights we have" rather than really fight to expand them.

Of course I've thought of that. The NRA will always have a job. They fight to expand our rights every day. They just do it in the real world. It's hard to sway anti-gun folks. Showing them a gun gets mixed reactions. Some are gonna freak out. So the big question is, will one or two screaming bedwetters get noticed more than the quiet nods of approval.

There are a lot of ways to get a girl's clothes off. Whippin' out your piece usually ain't one of them.

Edited January 31, 2011 by mikegideon

[tnhawk]

Why is this ignorant? Kwik, following the law, carried around a weapon in plain sight in order to draw attention to his cause. Sound familiar?

You keep trying to avoid the obvious comparison, but it's there and it proves that little displays like the one you intend don't have a positive effect for our cause.

Pushing the limit doesn't seem to have worked very well for kwik. The anti-gun groups are the only ones getting any benefit from actions such as his.

Others have open carried without creating negative attention. In our current political setting, it is a better decision for most of us to conceal carry and not draw undue awareness to the issue.

Edited January 31, 2011 by tnhawk

[DRM]

I don't know how effective a button would be. The statement isn't really bold enough.

Obviously OC of a weapon is bold enough to make a statement, but many here feel it is too bold.

I agree it is not as bold of a statement, but perhaps it is the better way to ease into the process. Assuming the goal is to create an annual day - you start with the button and each individual can judge for themselves how and where it may be appropriate to OC. Since the eventual goal is getting more people comfortable with guns in general (not just OC), I would hope more people - both carriers and non - would become more comfortable with people exercising their OC rights.

Perhaps we could take a page from the books of those who have gone before us and have an OC day as a protest, but carry an empty OC-style holster.

I'm not suggesting anyone necessarily go unarmed (I know many of you have BUG's galore), but it would be an interesting way of starting a conversation.

An interesting idea. Have you see this tried before? I normally pocket carry myself - but could easily wear one of my larger OWB holsters - empty - at the same time.

But don't discount the button idea totally. What a button says to me is that the person wearing it took the time to be informed about an organized event, and is not just doing this on a whim. I think that says a lot too.

Just threw this together in MS Paint:

Something like that...

[mikegideon]

I wish the anti's hadn't done such a good job of demonizing guns, but they have. "I'm normal, and I'm armed" is a great message. OC will fly a lot better in some places than it will in others. For example, we live in a Red state, but Davidson County tends to be Blue. Lots of bedwetters in this neck of the woods.

[RobertNashville]

POST 97:

...Edit: You know what... I don't care anymore. I'm tired of arguing over this. Say whatever you wish in your reply as you will have the last word.

Good day, Sir.

Then...

POST 104:

Anything that happened before TN started issuing HCPs is irrelevant to the discussion of carrying guns with a HCP.

I'll ask again, have there been any negative laws passed in TN since it became an issue state?

I never initiated the debate. I did defend against some negatives in this thread until I was jumped on. Go back and read my first two posts.

Seems you and several others felt the need to put your opinions into the mix where it wasn't asked for.

The OP didn't ask if OC was bad. The OP asked who would be up for an "OC day". I said I would be. You, Sir, are the one who jumped in with why it shouldn't happen. You(and others), are the one(s) who turned it into an OC vs CC thread. Not me.

It would be no different then someone posting "Glocks suck and here's why..." into a thread about why someone like's their Glock.

Is this indicative of the value or your declarations or did you just forget what you rote in your prior post???

Whichever is the case, it seems likely that you aren't about to let either facts or even direct quotes of your prior posts get in your way.

Edited January 31, 2011 by RobertNashville

[DRM]

I wish the anti's hadn't done such a good job of demonizing guns, but they have. "I'm normal, and I'm armed" is a great message. OC will fly a lot better in some places than it will in others. For example, we live in a Red state, but Davidson County tends to be Blue. Lots of bedwetters in this neck of the woods.

I tried a button with "Armed and Normal", but it didn't look or sound right - lol. Plus, I think "safe" gets double meaning: the wearer is safer for being armed, and the reader should not fear the wearer as being a threat, or UNsafe.

Armed - Legal - Safe = I think that states the facts pretty well. Button tells you I am armed. Button informs you I am doing so legally. Button reassures you I am not a threat (I've never seen a "take this note and give the small bills" button caught on a security camera at the bank).

[McAllyn]

I'd like to bypass the political conversation, and say that I don't open carry or wear buttons detailing that I'm armed simply because OC +/- Informative Button = Target. I'd prefer to be the quiet one in the crowd ready to protect my family or myself without drawing attention. And I certainly don't want to be on the news or in the paper as the guy who carries a gun.

I'll make my statements by voting and working with my representatives. I educate everyone I find who has questions or misconceptions regarding gun ownership, handling, or carrying to the best of my ability, but I'm not going to carry a sign or wear a button stating, "Ask me about the handgun on my hip."

Mac

[mikegideon]

I tried a button with "Armed and Normal", but it didn't look or sound right - lol. Plus, I think "safe" gets double meaning: the wearer is safer for being armed, and the reader should not fear the wearer as being a threat, or UNsafe.

Armed - Legal - Safe = I think that states the facts pretty well. Button tells you I am armed. Button informs you I am doing so legally. Button reassures you I am not a threat (I've never seen a "take this note and give the small bills" button caught on a security camera at the bank).

What I meant by statement... the button says your armed, but the "message" says you normal and armed because of your appearance and demeanor.

[DRM]

What I meant by statement... the button says your armed, but the "message" says you normal and armed because of your appearance and demeanor.

Understood.

A 20-something web-friend from another state participated in an OC gathering at their state capitol. He was OC'ing an AR pistol on a sling, and was dressed in a nice black suit and hat. The AR pistol obviously garnered considerable attention from the media covering the event - but the press photo's were far from threatening due to his choice in attire. His choice in weapon also got him some "air time" with the media to share his reasonable views in a calm and educated manner.

Could it have been a Kwik-type setting? Sure - it shared all of the same ingredients, EXCEPT the person with the gun. So instead of an embarrassment to gun owners, it was an VERY positive image that was portrayed, and a definite WIN for gun owners everywhere.

[RobertNashville]

...I'll make my statements by voting and working with my representatives. I educate everyone I find who has questions or misconceptions regarding gun ownership, handling, or carrying to the best of my ability, but I'm not going to carry a sign or wear a button stating, "Ask me about the handgun on my hip."

Mac

+10

[DRM]

From some of my AZ friends... evidently many in that state do not share the "it's not the time" or "they will use it against us" attitude when it comes to expanding their gun rights:

New Arizona legislation aims to loosen gun laws

Don't skip over this part:

Allow people to sue if they feel they were illegally stopped from carrying a firearm into a government facility or event. If a person wins the lawsuit and the government agency doesn't pay within 72 hours, the person has the right to seize as payment "any municipal vehicles used or operated for the benefit of any elected office holder" in the relevant government agency

If that part doesn't make you giggle, you're broken inside

[Raoul]

Understood.

A 20-something web-friend from another state participated in an OC gathering at their state capitol. He was OC'ing an AR pistol on a sling, and was dressed in a nice black suit and hat. The AR pistol obviously garnered considerable attention from the media covering the event - but the press photo's were far from threatening due to his choice in attire. His choice in weapon also got him some "air time" with the media to share his reasonable views in a calm and educated manner.

Could it have been a Kwik-type setting? Sure - it shared all of the same ingredients, EXCEPT the person with the gun. So instead of an embarrassment to gun owners, it was an VERY positive image that was portrayed, and a definite WIN for gun owners everywhere.

I can't imagine that scenario being positive on any level. Most of the sheep I know would only think assault weapon. And I would have to say my thoughts are some youngster full of vinegar and piss showing off. Yes I know I'm old, blah, blah, blah. But sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

[mikegideon]

I can't imagine that scenario being positive on any level. Most of the sheep I know would only think assault weapon. And I would have to say my thoughts are some youngster full of vinegar and piss showing off. Yes I know I'm old, blah, blah, blah. But sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Yep, older than dirt

[DRM]

I can't imagine that scenario being positive on any level. Most of the sheep I know would only think assault weapon. And I would have to say my thoughts are some youngster full of vinegar and piss showing off. Yes I know I'm old, blah, blah, blah. But sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Sorry you can't imagine it, but it happened - nobody died, and some respectable looking gun owners exercised their rights and educated some people - both in person and those reading the paper the next day.

That isn't "showing off".

Also keep in mind: If sometimes you don't do something just because you can, you wake up one day to find out someone decided you CAN'T.

[RobertNashville]

From some of my AZ friends... evidently many in that state do not share the "it's not the time" or "they will use it against us" attitude when it comes to expanding their gun rights:

New Arizona legislation aims to loosen gun laws

Perhaps I missed it but I don't see anything in the story that supports/proposes the idea that we need an organized public protest/statement such as you seem to be proposing in this thread; in some form, anyway. What I see in the article are efforts from gun-rights groups (like our own TFA) pushing change through the legislative process which is where real change must happen if there is to be change.

I know I'm not and I don't think anyone else is necessarily saying that this is the "wrong time" for working for improvements in our gun rights...rather, just that it seems like the wrong time to have any sort of "public" protest about it such as what's been offered in this thread.

In other words I think there are better ways to be effective than wearing empty holsters or openly carrying in mass or even wearing buttons such as sizable donations to the legislative action side of the NRA and/or the TFA; emailing and/or calling and/or actually visiting our legislators, etc.

Edited January 31, 2011 by RobertNashville

[DRM]

Please, don't call it a "protest". Nothing is being protested.

And I happen to disagree that "sizable donations" to the NRA is a better answer. No thanks, they are part of the problem, IMHO.

Simple yes or no questions for you Robert of you don't mind answering them:

1. Do you think OC should be a legal?

2. Would you fight to retain OC rights should the government try to take them away?

[NextExit]

So you want to wear a button? Problem solved

Gun Owner Buttons and Gun Owner Pins

[RobertNashville]

Please, don't call it a "protest". Nothing is being protested.

Note that I didn't call it just "protest" nor am I sure why that word bothers you. It seems to me that what you are proposing is a "protest" of some kind; at the very least, it seems that you want to organize some sort of public statement or event or "fill in the blank" beyond what is made every day by permit holders who do open carry either some or all of the time.

In any case, replace "protest" with any word that you feel more comfortable using.

And I happen to disagree that "sizable donations" to the NRA is a better answer. No thanks, they are part of the problem, IMHO.

I absolutely agree (and have voiced before on this forum) that the NRA is not anything near a perfect organization (the simple fact that they let me be a member is absolute proof of that)...whether you or anyone else wants to join it is totally up to you/them.

I also didn't mention only the NRA; there are plenty of other gun-rights advocate organizations out there, most of which I belong to, including our own TFA which has had a significant and positive impact on our gun rights in Tennessee.

Further, joining the NRA or any other "group" was not my only suggestion about ways to be proactive.

Also, I wonder why you are a member of the NRA (according to your profile) if you think they are part of the problem???

Simple yes or no questions for you Robert of you don't mind answering them:

1. Do you think OC should be a legal?

2. Would you fight to retain OC rights should the government try to take them away?

As to your questions...

1. Do you think OC should be a legal?

Yes.

2. Would you fight to retain OC rights should the government try to take them away?

I can't answer that with a simple yes or no; best I can say is "probably".

Final comments...

I would submit that open carry already is "legal" in Tennessee so whether it "should be" seems like an unnecessary question. That said, I also believe that there is a need to make the law regarding "carrying", both open and concealed, skewed more in favor of the armed citizen than it now is.

Further, I'm not aware of any movement in Tennessee to disallow open carry; if there is one please tell me. Bottom line for me is that "open carry" is simply not as important to me as "carrying" in general and as I've said in this thread already; I think there are other more pressing matters in Tennessee than "open carry".

Edited January 31, 2011 by RobertNashville