Organizing a "TN Open Carry Day"

[strickj]

Why is this ignorant? Kwik, following the law, carried around a weapon in plain sight in order to draw attention to his cause. Sound familiar?

You keep trying to avoid the obvious comparison, but it's there and it proves that little displays like the one you intend don't have a positive effect for our cause.

Sigh....

Someone carrying a gun openly is NOT the same as some ****ing idiot walking around a park with an AK in his hand

Not true...

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/newsworthy-reports/34487-open-carrying-told-leave-movie-theater-arrested-no-posting.html

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/newsworthy-reports/28512-open-carry-story.html

Great. Two stories out of the 300,000 permit holders in TN.

Maybe your "real world" isn't where most of the population lives? I just personally saw, less than two weeks ago, a guy call the police because he saw people openly carrying their firearms...maybe you consider that a positive effect but I don't...I'm sure this guy would have been more than willing to go about his business had it not been an open carry situation. As it is, he is likely more convinced than ever that armed, law-abiding citizens are just a brief angry moment away from becoming a murderer.

Know how many times the exact opposite has happened to me?

Yes; which happens but not all that often and in any case, openly carrying is more likely to bother someone than a once in a while accidental exposure of a concealed weapon.

Prove it. IMO,and there are plenty of "opps, my gun became exposed" stories that say differently.

remember, thugs carry concealed. When John Q sees an exposed gun, what does he think? "Why is that man hiding a gun!"

I don't think anyone here has a problem with that....I don't recall that anyone here said you or anyone else shoudln't carry in whatever manner you feel is appropriate for you and for your circumstances....

Umm... then what exactly are you, and everyone else, saying? Obviously yall have a problem with it or yall wouldn't be in this thread posting about how bad it is.

the issue is whether openly carrying as some sort of organized protest is truly a good idea or not (and think most here are saying that it probably isn't a good idea).

Who is advocating a 'protest'?

I think this issue/thread has more to do with public perception than legislative bills.

Public perception that any law abiding citizen can carry a gun?

In any case, why should people who carry organize a day to openly carry and likely, give more fodder to those who want to introduce more bills? Those who want to restrict gun rights only have to win now and then; those of us who don't want to see what we've gained become loss have to win every time...more bills give the anti-gun crowd more chances to get what they want.

When has that ever happened? Year after year, do we not gain ground?

Perhaps you should avoid blanket statements that include phrases like "No one. Anywhere. No negative affects have ever arisen" because that's just completely untrue (as blanket statements always...I mean usually are).

I'm just following the theme of the thread by posting blanket statements.

After all, "OCers are going to cause SO many problems". "OCers are all like Kwik"....

[deerslayer]

Great. Two stories out of the 300,000 permit holders in TN.

Two stories that likely resulted in at least two more places getting posted, and those are just stories that I know of. Thank God not all 300,000 OC.

[Guest Drewsett]

The response DRM has received from some of the "well-respected" members here has quite frankly sickened me.

Way to assume the worst about a person. Comparing him to Lenny? Preposterous and insulting.

As far as the OC day thing is concerned, I think there could be both positive and negative outcomes. I disagree that this is the "wrong time" to get active. In the aftermath of the Tucson shooting, the void that is public perception began to be filled with hate and disinformation spewed by the anti media groups. If we don't get stories out there of gun owners NOT being crazed killers, then eventually the public will begin to believe all gun owners are crazed killers...cause they heard it on the news.

DRM at least has recognized this problem and wants to start a dialogue. Bravo. Some of you don't think he's going about it the right way...how about instead of being the "party of no", why don't you propose what you feel to be a better plan? Doing nothing is become a less and less tenable option, our rights WILL be taken from us if we don't defend them.

The people of Egypt are protesting and dying for "bread, jobs, and human dignity". You're telling me they've got more balls than us?

[RobertNashville]

Sigh....Someone carrying a gun openly is NOT the same as some ****ing idiot walking around a park with an AK in his hand[/img]

I don't believe anyone said same but to deny any similarity would be ridiculous.

Great. Two stories out of the 300,000 permit holders in TN.

One link to one story was sufficient to establish that your blanket statement simply wasn’t true. Beyond that, what difference does it make how many?

Are you trying to purport that all 300,000 HCP holders open carry all the time and that there have only been two incidents since 1996? Even if that were true, your blanket statement would still be wrong.

I don't know if there have been any independent studies regarding how many Tennessee HCP holders open carry or how often they do so...I suspect far more don't open carry than do but however many there are that do, I also suspect that a diligent search would show more incidents than the two very recent ones posted or the one I personally observed less than two weeks ago.

Know how many times the exact opposite has happened to me?

Prove it. IMO,and there are plenty of "opps, my gun became exposed" stories that say differently. Remember, thugs carry concealed. When John Q sees an exposed gun, what does he think? "Why is that man hiding a gun!"

I don’t know how many times it’s happened to you nor does it really matter how many times it’s happened to you since there is no way to know those times happened or didn’t happen.

Are you seriously suggesting that an occasional accidental exposure of a concealed weapon has caused more problem more often than problems caused by those who always openly carry? In keeping with your apparent need for links; if there are plenty of stories, where are your links to them? Oh...and if you don't have at least two links then they don't really count.

Umm... then what exactly are you, and everyone else, saying? Obviously yall have a problem with it or yall wouldn't be in this thread posting about how bad it is.

I’m sure it’s very obvious to someone who hasn’t read the thread – not bothering to find out what other people are actually saying makes it easy to assume they are saying things you can disagree with. If you want to know what I and everybody else has actually been saying maybe you should read what everybody else has said.

Who is advocating a 'protest'?

I believe that would be the OP. He didn’t use the word “protest†but the intent clearly is to make a statement with the intent of changing people’s perception of an issue (in this case, open carry); that sounds like a “protest†to me. If some other word makes you more comfortable but is as or more descriptive of the OP's intent, feel free to use that word instead.

Public perception that any law abiding citizen can carry a gun?

Yes…perhaps this is news but a lot of people don’t like that fact that any law-abiding citizen can carry a gun.

When has that ever happened? Year after year, do we not gain ground?

Given your age (as stated in your profile) and that we have been making ground in Tennessee for your entire adult life, I guess I can understand why you might think it’s always been that way…but it hasn’t always been that way. More importantly, pushing the issue of open carry on the heels of a mass shooting three weeks ago and the antics of Leonard E. just doesn't sound like a good idea to me and could even move us in a direction we don't want to go (losing instead of gaining ground).

I'm just following the theme of the thread by posting blanket statements.

After all, "OCers are going to cause SO many problems". "OCers are all like Kwik"....

How can someone who has admittedly not read the thread know so perfectly what has been said? I wish I could have such perfect knowledge of my coursework without reading the assigned texts.

Edited January 29, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Mechanic_X]

Taking Strictj's point about picking up trash. Come out to the highway cleanup. We could use the help, and I'll OC with you.

[mikegideon]

You got any armadillos on that stretch of road? Could be fun!

[Mechanic_X]

It is my town, so it is a little self-serving . I expect 56ford to be planning the next one soon.

[GIJake]

Perhaps we should try to setup some TGO debates so that any member who wants could prepare and express their arguments on the CC/OC issue and perhaps invite a representative of law enforcement. Maybe a state legislator could attend and witness/participate. I think that a face to face debate would probably result in more productive discourse than forum flaming.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Sigh....

Someone carrying a gun openly is NOT the same as some ****ing idiot walking around a park with an AK in his hand

Why? They're both following the rule of law. Why is one a ****ing idiot, and you're some sore of patriot?

[strickj]

I don't believe anyone said same but to deny any similarity would be ridiculous.

Know what.... Jared Loughner was carrying a gun.... just like you.... does that make you a mass-murderer? Denying the similarity there would be ridiculous.

Are you trying to purport that all 300,000 HCP holders open carry all the time and that there have only been two incidents since 1996? Even if that were true, your blanket statement would still be wrong.

There are only a hand full of stories on the internet of problems arising. No, I'm not saying that all 300,000 people OC regularly.... but to stay concealed 100% of the time is impossible.

There are a lot of people that do OC daily, combined with everyone else having their guns become exposed, I'd say that, that's a pretty durn good record. A few incidences out of the lot.

I don’t know how many times it’s happened to you nor does it really matter how many times it’s happened to you since there is no way to know those times happened or didn’t happen.

So, your story of you witnessing cops being called to someone OC is valid while what I said is not valid?

Are you seriously suggesting that an occasional accidental exposure of a concealed weapon has caused more problem more often than problems caused by those who always openly carry? In keeping with your apparent need for links; if there are plenty of stories, where are your links to them? Oh...and if you don't have at least two links then they don't really count.

Look for them yourself. There are only about 52083482640612096120o7601264062304o172376540972360487620835476082375640872645087623054760275601872654

0401723047203747-23740-72604796120974601972640891726047162084760827640978264097826304781620397846

posted on this website.

I’m sure it’s very obvious to someone who hasn’t read the thread – not bothering to find out what other people are actually saying makes it easy to assume they are saying things you can disagree with. If you want to know what I and everybody else has actually been saying maybe you should read what everybody else has said.

I did go back and read it, thanks. I also read your post before ever saying anything to you. If you do not have a problem with people OCing, then why are you raising a fuss about people that do?

I believe that would be the OP. He didn’t use the word “protest†but the intent clearly is to make a statement with the intent of changing people’s perception of an issue (in this case, open carry); that sounds like a “protest†to me. If some other word makes you more comfortable but is as or more descriptive of the OP's intent, feel free to use that word instead.

You are describing his intentions as rallying at the courthouse with ARs in hand.

Yes…perhaps this is news but a lot of people don’t like that fact that any law-abiding citizen can carry a gun.

So what? The people that do not like gun carriers are going to dislike them regardless.

Given your age (as stated in your profile) and that we have been making ground in Tennessee for your entire adult life, I guess I can understand why you might think it’s always been that way…but it hasn’t always been that way. More importantly, pushing the issue of open carry on the heels of a mass shooting three weeks ago and the antics of Leonard E. just doesn't sound like a good idea to me and could even move us in a direction we don't want to go (losing instead of gaining ground).

Well then, older wise one. Answer the question that I asked.

When have HCP laws not gained ground?

Why? They're both following the rule of law. Why is one a ****ing idiot, and you're some sore of patriot?

As I'm saying to Robert, Jared Loughner was carrying a gun just like you. Does that similarity make you a murderer? You're both carrying guns! You're both doing it legally!

Some idiot driving a car drunk and killing someone has similarities to you driving a car too.

Does that make you a drunk driver? you're both driving a car! You're both doing it with drivers licenses!

This OC to kwik comparison is just laughable! If you guys can't come up with a valid comparison, then just stop here because there is no need to rebut something so outlandish any further.

Edited January 30, 2011 by strickj

[Oh Shoot]

Originally Posted by strickj

Sigh....

Someone carrying a gun openly is NOT the same as some ****ing idiot walking around a park with an AK in his hand

Why? They're both following the rule of law. Why is one a ****ing idiot, and you're some sore of patriot?

An aside:

Kwik wasn't carrying an AK pistol in hand at Radnor Lake, was on a sling.

He carried a blackpowder revolver in hand at Belle Meade.

Not a big deal perhaps, just amazing how gun lore factoids drift over even a short time, even within the pro-gun faction.

- OS

[deerslayer]

Common sense is not common.

[Guest tumbleweed]

I exercise my right to 'open carry' most all the time. It's allowed in Tennessee, I'm a permit holder, and I'm a citizen of these Great United States. Just another law abiding citizen protecting myself and my family.

[RobertNashville]

Know what.... Jared Loughner was carrying a gun.... just like you.... does that make you a mass-murderer? Denying the similarity there would be ridiculous.

No...what is ridiculous is to resort to hyperbole.

There are only a hand full of stories on the internet of problems arising. No, I'm not saying that all 300,000 people OC regularly.... but to stay concealed 100% of the time is impossible. There are a lot of people that do OC daily, combined with everyone else having their guns become exposed, I'd say that, that's a pretty durn good record. A few incidences out of the lot.

I hope to God that the "internet" isn't your only arbiter of information.

Please provide the source for your claim that there are "only a hand full of stories" and how you know with such certainty that staying concealed is "impossible" and that "a lot" of people that openly carry daily...I have a feeling that they are all assumption and wishful thinking but if you have actual facts, please present them.

So, your story of you witnessing cops being called to someone OC is valid while what I said is not valid?

I said there was no way to know if they happened or not so the claim is just that, a claim.

Look for them yourself. There are only about 52083482640612096120o7601264062304o172376540972360487620835476082375640872645087623054760275601872654

0401723047203747-23740-72604796120974601972640891726047162084760827640978264097826304781620397846

posted on this website.

And I'm sure you've read them all with the same due diligence you've applied to this thread. And no, I'm not going to "look for myself" nor do I think that TGO is the only record of such things (or a complete one)...you made the unsupported claim about all the "oops"; if you aren't willing or are unable to back it up then the claim is worthless.

I did go back and read it, thanks. I also read your post before ever saying anything to you. If you do not have a problem with people OCing, then why are you raising a fuss about people that do?

Then you need to read it again because you've obviously missed some points - I've already said multiple time in this thread that people should carry the way thy want to carry - I don't know how that is "raising a fuss". The OP seemed to be soliciting opinions about holding some sort of "TGO Open Carry Day" and quite a few people here seem to think that isn't a good idea. If the OP wants to go ahead then he should go ahead with whoever wants to join him.

Well then, older wise one. Answer the question that I asked. When have HCP laws not gained ground?

Is that a serious question? Do you know so little of our history that you don't understand that there was a time in this country when no one would have thought that anyone needed any bureaucrat's permission to be armed...that it then became a felony almost everywhere in this country just to be armed?

We went backwards....far backwards with regards to gun rights; the insinuation that we've "always gained ground" is obtuse at best and ignores all but the most recent history of gun rights.

Edited January 30, 2011 by RobertNashville

[TGO David]

I'm all for an organized protest. It's one of our rights, after all. However... I just about never open carry now so I wouldn't be inclined to open carry for this either. It's just not something I choose to do personally. Sorry.

[DRM]

The response DRM has received from some of the "well-respected" members here has quite frankly sickened me.

Way to assume the worst about a person. Comparing him to Lenny? Preposterous and insulting.

As far as the OC day thing is concerned, I think there could be both positive and negative outcomes. I disagree that this is the "wrong time" to get active. In the aftermath of the Tucson shooting, the void that is public perception began to be filled with hate and disinformation spewed by the anti media groups. If we don't get stories out there of gun owners NOT being crazed killers, then eventually the public will begin to believe all gun owners are crazed killers...cause they heard it on the news.

DRM at least has recognized this problem and wants to start a dialogue. Bravo. Some of you don't think he's going about it the right way...how about instead of being the "party of no", why don't you propose what you feel to be a better plan? Doing nothing is become a less and less tenable option, our rights WILL be taken from us if we don't defend them.

The people of Egypt are protesting and dying for "bread, jobs, and human dignity". You're telling me they've got more balls than us?

Thanks, Drewsett for seeing through the mess and getting the point. I sure don't have the answers, and am open to suggestions, but it's frustrating to bring this topic up only to have to deal with - as you put so well - "party of no" type attitudes.

It;s disappointing that a more realistic exchange of ideas can't be had here - but perhaps that is my fault for starting this in the off topic forum, and not in one of the more structured areas that seem to have a better atmosphere for discussion.

Maybe "OC day" isn't the best solution. The more I think about it, the better way is to ease into this with something like a button or ribbon campaign, nation wide, one set day per year. This allows people to still carry their preferred method - open or concealed - and the button lets people know we're all LEGAL gun owners and carriers, and we are just living our lives normally - just like everyone else. A button or ribbon makes "us" as a collective armed group visible, but not "in your face". I think this serves to get the point out - while mitigating some of the negatives a pure OC type event might.

Regardless, I think the way is to start educating away the irrational fear many people have concerning guns. It won't be easy, or fast - but I can guarantee the anti's will be educating people towards *their* view, and that combined with ignorance and apathy puts us in a losing position.

[mikegideon]

Maybe "OC day" isn't the best solution. The more I think about it, the better way is to ease into this with something like a button or ribbon campaign, nation wide, one set day per year. This allows people to still carry their preferred method - open or concealed - and the button lets people know we're all LEGAL gun owners and carriers, and we are just living our lives normally - just like everyone else. A button or ribbon makes "us" as a collective armed group visible, but not "in your face". I think this serves to get the point out - while mitigating some of the negatives a pure OC type event might.

Regardless, I think the way is to start educating away the irrational fear many people have concerning guns. It won't be easy, or fast - but I can guarantee the anti's will be educating people towards *their* view, and that combined with ignorance and apathy puts us in a losing position.

I really like this idea. The OC debate always brings out strong opinions on both sides. Personally, I believe one negative outweighs a whole bunch of positives. In other words, one screaming bedwetter outweighs all the other people in the room that are fine with seeing your weapon. Regions Bank is one of the best examples.

I'm not afraid to tell anybody that I'm a gun owner and permit holder. So... I'll proudly wear the button if there's no threatening language. I'll even chip in a few bucks to get it done.

[DaveTN]

It;s disappointing that a more realistic exchange of ideas can't be had here -

More realistic exchange of ideas… what does that mean?

but perhaps that is my fault for starting this in the off topic forum, and not in one of the more structured areas that seem to have a better atmosphere for discussion.

More structured areas? You think it would go over better somewhere else?

Come on man…. Don’t get all butt hurt. You pitched an idea and it didn't go over like you planned. As I said you weren't the first to come up with that idea.

No one is holding it against you (unless you turn it into a personal attack), just come up with a better idea.

Or… maybe we are clueless to what an overwhelming success it would be. Do it and see how it turns out.

The button idea sounds good. Maybe for a given day or week. “HCP week†maybe?

Edited January 30, 2011 by DaveTN

[mikegideon]

More realistic exchange of ideas… what does that mean?

More structured areas? You think it would go over better somewhere else?

Come on man…. Don’t get all butt hurt. You pitched an idea and it didn't go over like you planned. As I said you weren't the first to come up with that idea.

No one is holding it against you (unless you turn it into a personal attack), just come up with a better idea.

Or… maybe we are clueless to what an overwhelming success it would be. Do it and see how it turns out.

The button idea sounds good. Maybe for a given day or week. “HCP week” maybe?

THIS

[Mechanic_X]

Some groups in Wisconsin have gone this route(Open carry protests). I don't know if it has helped or hurt their cause. Seems like cops wrote tickets for disturbing the peace or the like. It at least got their message out. But, I think, in a bad light.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

The response DRM has received from some of the "well-respected" members here has quite frankly sickened me.

Way to assume the worst about a person. Comparing him to Lenny? Preposterous and insulting.

As far as the OC day thing is concerned, I think there could be both positive and negative outcomes. I disagree that this is the "wrong time" to get active. In the aftermath of the Tucson shooting, the void that is public perception began to be filled with hate and disinformation spewed by the anti media groups. If we don't get stories out there of gun owners NOT being crazed killers, then eventually the public will begin to believe all gun owners are crazed killers...cause they heard it on the news.

DRM at least has recognized this problem and wants to start a dialogue. Bravo. Some of you don't think he's going about it the right way...how about instead of being the "party of no", why don't you propose what you feel to be a better plan? Doing nothing is become a less and less tenable option, our rights WILL be taken from us if we don't defend them.

The people of Egypt are protesting and dying for "bread, jobs, and human dignity". You're telling me they've got more balls than us?

Thank YOU!

IMO the most intelligent post in the thread.

I have been astounded for two days reading this thread. NO one is trying to make anyone else DO anything. It was simply meant to be a discussion. Agree or disagree, no need for all the name calling and bashing of others ideas.

And folks, I sure am not a Kwik fan but what if his trip to the park would have been with a couple dozen friends doing just as he was?.....

Do you really think there would have been as much of a story there? "They were exercising their legal rights" and that would have been the end of it. But we all know that isnt what kwik wanted.....but I digress.

I CC daily for protection and I ALWAYS will for all the reasons given. But if someone was to organize an OC picnic this spring or summer I would gladly attend and OC on that day. I dont see the harm or foul in it.

What would the other people see?....A group of people having a normal picnic. The only two differences would be that we would carrying guns and NOT drinking at our picnic. I'm sorry but I just dont see anything wrong with such events.

As for timing....well it has been couple weeks since the latest mass shooting and I agree the few days after such a thing would not be "good timing". But just how long do we wait? If we wait very long then there will surely be another horrible situation happen and we would be "out of respect" waiting again, and again, and again.

I am more than willing to attend any OC events that are not of the "In your face" nature like on the Capitol Steps with AR's and such. Smaller events like picnics and such are the way to go about it and I dont think it would be able to done on the same day nationwide initially....but eventually it might.

We DO have the right to OC here in TN and if we dont use it somehow it will eventually disappear. And when they start trying to do that this CC'er will stand with the OC'ers to help keep that right.

The OP was only trying to open a discussion of how best to go about keeping our OC rights and educating the public, If we let the Media do all the educating we are going to carrying sling-shots before long.

That said.....If you see me out and about you WILL NOT see my protection tool(s). If I see you and you are OC'ing I will either just move along and smile or stop and shake your hand as the situation dictates.

I certainly dont see a return to the days when "most" people were carrying guns in this country, but I can foresee an increase in awareness of our rights as Americans and with that an increase in the number of folks who DO OC. If the laws were changed so that anyone could carry concealed with a simple background check we may could let our OC rights slip away but we all know that isnt ever going to happen. So in the meantime we need to start somewhere with the re-education, re-programing or whatever of the public.

We are Americans by gosh!....... and we have the right to carry guns and I would think everyone here would fight to keep it that way. The "how" really should not matter.

[strickj]

No...what is ridiculous is to resort to hyperbole.

hyperbole

— n

a deliberate exaggeration used for effect

Who was it saying that OCers have "similarities to kwik"?

I hope to God that the "internet" isn't your only arbiter of information.

Please provide the source for your claim that there are "only a hand full of stories" and how you know with such certainty that staying concealed is "impossible" and that "a lot" of people that openly carry daily...I have a feeling that they are all assumption and wishful thinking but if you have actual facts, please present them.

Umm.... because people who carry are only human

I'm sure your gun has never became exposed. I salute you for your superhumanness.

And I'm sure you've read them all with the same due diligence you've applied to this thread. And no, I'm not going to "look for myself" nor do I think that TGO is the only record of such things (or a complete one)...you made the unsupported claim about all the "oops"; if you aren't willing or are unable to back it up then the claim is worthless.

Like I said, there are only a million of such stories posted on this website and others. I'm not looking for them. Sorry.

There are also a million 'why cops suck' stories, too. I shouldn't have to provide proof to the obvious that there are more then enough of those stories around.

Then you need to read it again because you've obviously missed some points - I've already said multiple time in this thread that people should carry the way thy want to carry - I don't know how that is "raising a fuss". The OP seemed to be soliciting opinions about holding some sort of "TGO Open Carry Day" and quite a few people here seem to think that isn't a good idea. If the OP wants to go ahead then he should go ahead with whoever wants to join him.

Again, if you have no problems, them why raise a stink against OC?

I

s that a serious question? Do you know so little of our history that you don't understand that there was a time in this country when no one would have thought that anyone needed any bureaucrat's permission to be armed...that it then became a felony almost everywhere in this country just to be armed?

We went backwards....far backwards with regards to gun rights; the insinuation that we've "always gained ground" is obtuse at best and ignores all but the most recent history of gun rights.

Yeah, you're right. There was also a time in this country where slaves picked cotton, and women couldn't vote.

The question wasn't posed for decades past. Since TN became an issue state, have we gun owners not continually gained ground?

Edit: You know what... I don't care anymore. I'm tired of arguing over this. Say whatever you wish in your reply as you will have the last word.

Good day, Sir.

Edited January 30, 2011 by strickj

[mikegideon]

As for timing....well it has been couple weeks since the latest mass shooting and I agree the few days after such a thing would not be "good timing". But just how long do we wait? If we wait very long then there will surely be another horrible situation happen and we would be "out of respect" waiting again, and again, and again.

Joe,

The :poop:storm from this has barely started. It's not about an appropriate mourning period. It's about the fact that every gun grabber between New York and California is trying to introduce their version of gun control laws to the entire US. BECAUSE of the event, more people are listening to them. The only way they can succeed is by having public opinion behind them.

That's my view. I am going to be outspoken about it, because it will wind up effecting MY rights too.

[Fallguy]

I have up reading about 10-15 post in....

Anyone seeing why the first thread was closed yet?.....

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Joe,

The :poop:storm from this has barely started. It's not about an appropriate mourning period. It's about the fact that every gun grabber between New York and California is trying to introduce their version of gun control laws to the entire US. BECAUSE of the event, more people are listening to them. The only way they can succeed is by having public opinion behind them.

That's my view. I am going to be outspoken about it, because it will wind up effecting MY rights too.

That is kinda my point. People are listening because only one side is talking to them.

Just HOW do we as gun owners best get them to listen to us is the question and I sure dont have the answer to that. Maybe there really isnt one.

A GG CC'ing or OC'ing could save dozens of lives tomorrow and the Antis would find a way to spin that in a negative light.

I really think the OP was only trying to find an answer of how best to get folks to listen to our side. As I said it may not be possible, Anti's dont mix well with common sense and logic but they are the only ones talking to the people right now and that is what somehow we need to change.

Small picnics on local levels is all I can come up with. If I knew more people I may would try to organize one myself but I dont.

Bottom line is just that I dont like to see all the arguing between ourselves when we are all really on the same side, I cant say for sure but I would bet that a lot those like myself who only CC would come to the aid of those who OC if the right was threatened. Just a guess though.