Organizing a "TN Open Carry Day"

[DRM]

If you're gung ho about this, you should already be doing on your own time....

If this is what you take away from the concept of a state or nation wide OC day, you missed the point.

Again - the point of an organized day is that people across the state can see that a whole lot of their coworkers, neighbors, and other people are carrying every day and just going about life. The point is education that there are people all around them, every day, who are armed, and those people aren't hurting anybody by just exercising that right.

[DRM]

I’ll pass on an “open carry†day. We already had that at Radnor park. How’s that worked out for us? You think a few people are now use to seeing someone with an AK strapped across their chest?

Don't insult me by comparing what I suggested to that. It's dishonest on your part and you know it.

I just don’t support open carry as good for our cause or any pro-gun legislation.

It is well meaning people like you who - IMHO - are the reason we are losing our gun rights. You think compromising and "working with" the anti's is the correct path - but it's not. THEY are not compromising, THEY are pushing 100% for their views 100% of the time. The 2A started out simple enough - how has that compromise thing worked out ever since that was penned?

Voting adults have already formed their opinions on carrying guns.

*Most* people are indifferent about guns - Guns never cross their mind on a day to day basis. Most people are also uneducated and lack exposure to guns - which means many of them *can* be reached by education and exposure. Remove the fear of the unknown.

Sorry you think anyone that disagrees with you is “cowering in fearâ€.

Please don't misrepresent what I said.

What I said is the anti's love seeing us cower in fear. They love knowing we have a legal right to do something - but many are scared to do so. The anti's also love the infighting among gun owners where CC proponents like to chide and belittle people who simply want to exercise their right to OC.

[enfield]

The first time I saw a citizen open-carrying - in Georgia in 1972 - my first reaction was shock. My second reaction was "I want to do that". I did.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

There is no maybe, it would be less shocking as people get used to it. And as people get used to it, they either get informed, or indifferent - and to be honest, I'll take either one.

.

There's always a maybe..... The world isnt as black and white as you may think.

Sure, people might get informed, or indifferent, but there's a third option you conveniently ignore: they could get scared.....and then active. Active in trying to take away our rights.

If you want a social experiment, start carrying oc on your own, everyday. Let's us know how it works for you.

[DRM]

I thought some more last night, and maybe a better approach would be a national "go armed" day. Maybe shift the focus from OC/CC, and shift the focus to going armed. Maybe a less "in your face" approach would be a large button or pin or ribbon that says something like "Armed and Safe". OC or CC, on that day everyone wears that button and is prepared to help educate those who ask about it.

I think that would still meet the goal of education, while broadening the impact by including more people.

People would still see that those button wearing "Armed and Safe" people are just normal people, going about their normal daily lives... Armed, and safe.

Thoughts on that? Again, the goal here is to educate and inform - I'm not dead set on "OC" as the only way to do it.

[Guest Red5]

Again - the point of an organized day is that people across the state can see that a whole lot of their coworkers, neighbors, and other people are carrying every day and just going about life. The point is education that there are people all around them, every day, who are armed, and those people aren't hurting anybody by just exercising that right.

I agree with you on this point, that education is what will change opinions over time. I just think that it is better accomplished on a more personal level. We should talk to OUR coworkers, neighbors, and friends. People that know you personally and know that your are a normal guy just going about life and that your pistol is not going to all of a sudden kill someone.

With an organized rally, it is much easier for the other side to simply dismiss us as a group of gun-nuts.

I want the same end result as you, I'm just taking a different road to get there.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

I agree with you on this point, that education is what will change opinions over time. I just think that it is better accomplished on a more personal level. We should talk to OUR coworkers, neighbors, and friends. People that know you personally and know that your are a normal guy just going about life and that your pistol is not going to all of a sudden kill someone.

With an organized rally, it is much easier for the other side to simply dismiss us as a group of gun-nuts.

I want the same end result as you, I'm just taking a different road to get there.

Agreed 100%

[DaveTN]

The anti's also love the infighting among gun owners where CC proponents like to chide and belittle people who simply want to exercise their right to OC.

I’m not trying to chide or belittle anyone.

This isn’t about rights. I don’t have a right to carry a gun and you don’t have a right to open carry. You bought the privilege from the state the same as I did.

Open carrying has been battled on this forum more times than I can count. It is allowed so we don’t get charged with brandishing. It is a bad idea. It is bad tactically, politically, and logically. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose. However having said that…. It’s legal. So is carrying my PLR-16 as a carry gun. But I choose not to do that simple because I can; because I am a logical adult that knows it would cause a reaction.

If you want to fight a 2nd amendment battle thats great. Have at it. Get the state of Tennessee to recognize that you have a right to keep AND bear arms. But I’ve fought that battle… lost… and I don’t want my ability to carry a gun locked into it.

In the 1960’s a bunch of black Panthers got off a bus armed with rifles and wearing military garb and confronted Police. Did open carrying weapons work out for them? No… it scared the chit out of people and laws were passed to make sure it would never happen again.

I can carry a gun. I can carry it almost anyplace I like. What do I have to gain?

[mikegideon]

I’m not trying to chide or belittle anyone.

This isn’t about rights. I don’t have a right to carry a gun and you don’t have a right to open carry. You bought the privilege from the state the same as I did.

Open carrying has been battled on this forum more times than I can count. It is allowed so we don’t get charged with brandishing. It is a bad idea. It is bad tactically, politically, and logically. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose. However having said that…. It’s legal. So is carrying my PLR-16 as a carry gun. But I choose not to do that simple because I can; because I am a logical adult that knows it would cause a reaction.

If you want to fight a 2nd amendment battle thats great. Have at it. Get the state of Tennessee to recognize that you have a right to keep AND bear arms. But I’ve fought that battle… lost… and I don’t want my ability to carry a gun locked into it.

In the 1960’s a bunch of black Panthers got off a bus armed with rifles and wearing military garb and confronted Police. Did open carrying weapons work out for them? No… it scared the chit out of people and laws were passed to make sure it would never happen again.

I can carry a gun. I can carry it almost anyplace I like. What do I have to gain?

Well said!

[DRM]

I agree with you on this point, that education is what will change opinions over time. I just think that it is better accomplished on a more personal level. We should talk to OUR coworkers, neighbors, and friends. People that know you personally and know that your are a normal guy just going about life and that your pistol is not going to all of a sudden kill someone.

With an organized rally, it is much easier for the other side to simply dismiss us as a group of gun-nuts.

I want the same end result as you, I'm just taking a different road to get there.

Which is why I really don't think a "rally" or any other gathering is the proper approach. Limited exposure, limited attendance, etc. It really has to be spread out, and people doing nothing out of the ordinary for the impact really hit the main point.

Something like the button/ribbon/pin day gives you that "in" to discuss with others about the topic by drawing them into the the discussion.

[DRM]

I’m not trying to chide or belittle anyone.

This isn’t about rights. I don’t have a right to carry a gun and you don’t have a right to open carry. You bought the privilege from the state the same as I did.

I guess that's where we disagree. I think it is about rights, and I'm not satisfied that the best we can do is what hey TELL us we can do (aka - privilege). If you've set your expectations that low, I can respect that, but I just cant bring myself to agreeing with it.

It is bad tactically, politically, and logically.

Do you happen to have comparative stats to show where OC people have been targeted more, or suffered actual tactical disadvantage? In a political sense - the opposition are happy to have you give up and compromise their direction... the giggle gleefully at how easy it was to swing the battle in their favor.

I can carry a gun. I can carry it almost anyplace I like. What do I have to gain?

You can carry a gun because they let you. What there is to gain is shifting that to carrying a gun because they have no grounds to stop you. I am simply exploring ways to bring about that shift.

Edited January 28, 2011 by DRM

[DaveTN]

I guess that's where we disagree. I think it is about rights, and I'm not satisfied that the best we can do is what hey TELL us we can do (aka - privilege). If you've set your expectations that low, I can respect that, but I just cant bring myself to agreeing with it.

Do you happen to have comparative stats to show where OC people have been targeted more, or suffered actual tactical disadvantage? In a political sense - the opposition are happy to have you give up and compromise their direction... the giggle gleefully at how easy it was to swing the battle in their favor.

You can carry a gun because they let you. What there is to gain is shifting that to carrying a gun because they have no grounds to stop you. I am simply exploring ways to bring about that shift.

You can’t. Whether or not you can carry a gun off your property is controlled by the state. It is a State Right nothing in your lifetime will change that. You can get your state to recognize carry as a right; but they will need to choose to do this, no one (Feds) has the authority to force them to do that.

No one is asking you to lower your expectations; fight the good fight. But as you can see from this thread; we aren’t going to put our privileges at risk because you don’t understand what your rights are.

[mikegideon]

You can’t. Whether or not you can carry a gun off your property is controlled by the state. It is a State Right nothing in your lifetime will change that. You can get your state to recognize carry as a right; but they will need to choose to do this, no one (Feds) has the authority to force them to do that.

No one is asking you to lower your expectations; fight the good fight. But as you can see from this thread; we aren’t going to put our privileges at risk because you don’t understand what your rights are.

But... the Feds are fixin' to try. See Boxer's legislation that's trying to turn the whole US into kalifornia.

[DaveTN]

But... the Feds are fixin' to try. See Boxer's legislation that's trying to turn the whole US into kalifornia.

They can’t.

The SCOTUS has just heard two cases and is getting ready to hear a third. Each and every time we have heard how they are going to rule that the 2nd amendment is an individual right. But they don’t….. Because they can’t. You have a 2nd amendment right to own arms, but you do not have a 2nd amendment right to bear arms. The bearing of arms is controlled by the state and that will not change…. States Rights.

They can try anything they want, and they can pass whatever they like. But it won’t stand up. (Unless it is done at a state level)

[DRM]

You can’t. Whether or not you can carry a gun off your property is controlled by the state. It is a State Right nothing in your lifetime will change that. You can get your state to recognize carry as a right; but they will need to choose to do this, no one (Feds) has the authority to force them to do that.

Why do you tell me I can't do something, then agree with me that I can (by way of getting laws changed)? Where did I say anything about it not being a state right?

No one is asking you to lower your expectations; fight the good fight. But as you can see from this thread; we aren’t going to put our privileges at risk because you don’t understand what your rights are.

I was stating that it is you who has lowered your expectations - as you can see, I'm perfectly happy to keep my expectations up high where they are. And as I work (in whatever ways I can) to get you more rights than you think you can have, or deserve - I'll be ok with that too.

BTW, this isn't about me not "knowing what my rights are". This is about some people giving up on their rights and settling for the settling for the privileges they *let* them have.

I sure am glad I don't have the pessimistic "can't do" attitude some of you seem to have... Willing to settle, willing to throw other people under the bus that share the same goals as you but you disagree with their ideas, willing to give up rights and *maybe* be given back privileges if you don't rock the boat, etc... I just can't see it that way, sorry!

[DRM]

They can’t.

The SCOTUS has just heard two cases and is getting ready to hear a third. Each and every time we have heard how they are going to rule that the 2nd amendment is an individual right. But they don’t….. Because they can’t. You have a 2nd amendment right to own arms, but you do not have a 2nd amendment right to bear arms. The bearing of arms is controlled by the state and that will not change…. States Rights.

They can try anything they want, and they can pass whatever they like. But it won’t stand up. (Unless it is done at a state level)

I sure am glad you've got this all figured out for us! Clearly, we should just give up.

[mikegideon]

I sure am glad you've got this all figured out for us! Clearly, we should just give up.

Nobody is giving up. SOME of us have seen your plan fail, more than once. Strap on that hogleg. Maybe we'll get to see you on TV.

[DaveTN]

I sure am glad you've got this all figured out for us! Clearly, we should just give up.

Don’t give up man… fight the good fight. Just don’t lose focus of what you are fighting for.

Hey don’t feel bad. You aren’t the first guy on this forum with good intentions that came up with some ideas that weren’t really thought out. Do some searches… this had been suggested before. The result was the same.

[mikegideon]

Don’t give up man… fight the good fight. Just don’t lose focus of what you are fighting for.

Hey don’t feel bad. You aren’t the first guy on this forum with good intentions that came up with some ideas that weren’t really thought out. Do some searches… this had been suggested before. The result was the same.

I think we all have similar goals. I wish open carry was more accepted. It just almost always backfires.

[DRM]

SOME of us have seen your plan fail, more than once.

Care to explain what "my plan" is exactly, and show me where "my plan" has been tried before, and failed?

[DaveTN]

Care to explain what "my plan" is exactly, and show me where "my plan" has been tried before, and failed?

Two bulls were standing on a cliff overlooking the.....well never mind.

[mikegideon]

Care to explain what "my plan" is exactly, and show me where "my plan" has been tried before, and failed?

It's not worth it. It OK for us to disagree. We ARE on the same side.

[DaveTN]

It's not worth it. It OK for us to disagree. We ARE on the same side.

Exactly.

[DRM]

came up with some ideas that weren’t really thought out. Do some searches… this had been suggested before. The result was the same.

Like I asked the other pessimist - what idea of mine wasn't "thought out"? What exactly is the "this" that has been suggested before?

The only results I see that are the same are defeatists shooting down the ideas before anything actually happens. Were there mass riots in public? Did people get shot? Were people *not* informed when the encountered someone carrying during their daily walk of life?

Am I supposed to be insulted because you are calling these ideas bad? So far - I've seen no facts as to why this is a bad idea, just opinions. Where are the facts to support your position?

[mikegideon]

Two bulls were standing on a cliff overlooking the.....well never mind.

The correct answer is walk