Marine Corp New 1911

[Steelharp]

It's the little sand bugs in the pits that bite you all over that make it worse.

[mav]

Since the 1911 vs. whatever debate will never come to an end (I am certain it will pop up again next month), I was just curious as to what you would have chosen if you were given the option. Why?

Back in November Willis68 had given me an article on the FBI contract for a 1911 for their SWAT and HRT guys. I was totally blown away at how rigorous the testing was on the 1911s. I was so impressed that I went out and placed an order for the winner of the contract, the Springfield Professional. If I was given the choice I think I would have to choose a 1911.

Perhaps willis68 can repost the link to the article since I no longer have it. It was a good read.

[tnhawk]

What, a 100 years of perfection not enough for ya?

"The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now." --Col. Robert J. Coates, USMC

[JDM175]

Since the 1911 vs. whatever debate will never come to an end (I am certain it will pop up again next month), I was just curious as to what you would have chosen if you were given the option. Why?

Ray Gun of course. infinite supply of ammo combined with the strongest/lightest weight material known to man, unobtanium = win.

[323ssplt]

Ok...I was going to quote certain people and extole the virtues of why a sidearm is a neccessity........but I won't.......let me just say this, you have no idea of the "pucker factor" until you have cleared an Iraqi building at 3 AM and have to search the tight little closets with NOTHING but a pistol! In such instances, it is not a buckup weapon but a PRIMARY.....even if you carry a total of 4 weapon systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said, the 1911 is not the bees knees, but it is a damned good platform, and if you keep it clean, it will work for you damned near as good, if not AS good as any system on the planet.

And Pooley...........shut the F**K up, you don't have ANY basis to speak on ANY thing Marine Corps until you earn that Eagle Globe and Anchor....and then you are only a speak of dust on other's boots........Speak up only whe you have SEVERAL combat tours to lovely places like Iraq, Africa and Afghanistan....

And That's from SSGT Pienaar,............Marine Sniper And Company Gunnery Sergeant...........

Edited January 31, 2011 by 323ssplt

[Moped]

Are they going back to the 7.62 NATO also? I mean if they are clearing out the candy azz rounds isn’t that next?

It's my understanding that they can't get the old M14 platform into Afghanistan fast enough. All the old M14's that were turned into Redstone from the different Rifle Teams and RTUs back during the Clinton Administration, are being retrofitted as fast as possible and sent over. The M4/5.56 has proven not to have sufficient knockdown power at longer ranges is what I've read and heard. Unfortunately many of the M14s were cut up after being turned, so the pool is small.

As for .45 being a maintenance pig, I never carried or operated a M2, M60, M16, M1911a1 or M9 that didn't religiously get cleaned while in the field. So it didn't really make a difference. I've seen all of the above breakdown and not function when dirty and/or not properly lubricated. A troop that doesn't religiously keep his weapons clean at all times in combat, needs his and his immediate NCO's butt kicked. My personal experience was Desert Storm, should someone feel the need to question my credentials.

As for whether or not the M1911 platform is the best or not, I leave that to the capable hands of the men and women that are selecting the pistol. They are aware of what's at stake and will make the right selection.

[Guest Grudgie]

Best or not makes no differnece. The Marine Corps love using American guns.

[Guest Halfpint]

Well, I just spent the past fifteen minutes reading this thread and I've figured out a few things pretty damn well... Most people here know that I'm a Marine reservist with Kilo 3/23 out of Memphis, one of SSgt Pienaar's old haunts. I'm a Lance, probably terminal due to jacking up the cutting score for '11 to 1745 (last I heard). I manage a gun shop on civilian time. People are split into three groups -- people who swear by the 1911 and nothing else, people who swear by polymer pistol "X" and nothing else, and people who look at both and say "Which would be a better tool for the job, and really, what exactly IS that job?" As far as weapons maintenance, reliability, etc -- I've seen GI models choke on the range, right next to pretty much every other brand and model of pistol. All the M9's we have in inventory at Kilo are the equivalent of 30-35-year old porn stars... sure, they might have been the hottest, sexiest, best lay on the block growing up and going into maturity, but now they're rode hard, put up wet, and generally nobody wants the damn things in their bed.

I'll say flat out that I haven't deployed to (insert country here), as I joined the unit right after they got back from Iraq, but we are training for a deployment to Afcandyland. The most hardcore training (after MCRD and SOI) I've received was 15 days in Bridgeport California, at Mountain Warfare School. It's cold, windy, and what little sand there is tends to somehow find its way into YOUR weapon, combine with the Breakfree/CLP, and generally f**k things up in short order if you don't stay on your maintenance like you're getting ready for final inspection at Parris Island. Most of the guys I train with maintain their weapons as required, but generally don't give a rat's ass about that system in general. It's issued, we learn to use it, curse it, carry it, and eventually because we have come to know it intimately, we start to like it. The M16/M4 family of weapons, in my limited-experience opinion, has two major things going for it: Ergonomics and the ability to be modified easily for specific missions. Caliber, weapon length, weight, etc, all might come into debate, but those two things can't be successfully argued. For an entire branch of service where members range from 4'10, 90-lb ultra-petite females to 6'4, 300-lb knuckle-dragging behemoths, as a standard-issue weapon, it fits better than any other option at the moment. Yes, it needs some changes. Yes, it could be improved on. No, it doesn't fit me, as issued, perfectly -- but with a little ingenuity, improvisation, and a screwdriver, it works damn well.

All that ranting and raving has led up to this: Whatever the Marine Corps decides on has to work for both the petite females AND the huge dudes, without a lot of drama, hubbub, changing of parts, or chanting and spinning in circles. The 1911 fits a lot of people. So do a lot of other weapons. I've carried and owned both for 5+ years, shot both for going on 20, and while I have my preferences, so does everyone else. I carry either a Government model or Commander, depending on my mood, every day from pants-on to pants-off, and I love it as a civilian carry weapon. When we deploy overseas, if I am lucky enough to be issued a side-arm, I know it will be an M9. If it were up to me (Thank God it's not) I'd recommend something like the Sig 220 (SAO with frame safety) or H&K USP Compact/HK45c. They would (and do) fit the majority of the above-mentioned users, they're reliable as hell, they meet the current requirements for a military sidearm with regard to external hammers and manual safeties, they're simple to maintain, and they're easy to shoot accurately with a modicum of practice.

-----

And, poolee... SHUT THE F**K UP. I've been in the Corps for less time than some guys have been deployed, but compared to you I've been in since Christ himself was a corporal. This is a legitimate offer, one that I truly hope you'll take me up on -- I'll give you my name, address, and hell even phone number if you're lucky enough to rate a call home at some point. Write me once you get there and tell me how strong those opinions are after you've done push-ups til you not only puke, but dry-heave. Tell me how you'd be so happy to carry the M-1 Garand, wearing a flak and SAPI's on a deployment, once you carry the M16A2, a LIGHT pack, and no armor, through the Crucible. I'll personally come to your graduation from Parris Island and shake your hand, and I don't even know you. I wish you the best experiences the Corps has to offer, but, damn... you're in for a rude awakening.

Staff Sarn't, HornetHandler, and my other brother Marines (you too, Doc)... Semper Fi. Hoping and praying to Almighty God that, whatever weapon the Corps issues as the next sidearm, it will be a .45acp, regardless of model/brand, because my life may well depend on it.

[Steelharp]

Halfpint... Semper Fi. Thank you for what you do.

[G27]

Thank you for what you do.

Yep, it's very appreciated!

[willis68]

Since the 1911 vs. whatever debate will never come to an end (I am certain it will pop up again next month), I was just curious as to what you would have chosen if you were given the option. Why?

Back in November Willis68 had given me an article on the FBI contract for a 1911 for their SWAT and HRT guys. I was totally blown away at how rigorous the testing was on the 1911s. I was so impressed that I went out and placed an order for the winner of the contract, the Springfield Professional. If I was given the choice I think I would have to choose a 1911.

Perhaps willis68 can repost the link to the article since I no longer have it. It was a good read.

Here you go my good man, I believe this is what I posted that sold you on the PC1911 (Professional Model)

Most Wanted | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

[Guest Grudgie]

Why should the Marine Corps use a 1911 .45 acp over a single action .45lc? Give me one good reason. The revolver is superior in evry way except ammo capacity.

[Guest KimberChick]

Why should the Marine Corps use a 1911 .45 acp over a single action .45lc? Give me one good reason. The revolver is superior in evry way except ammo capacity.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Steelharp]

Yeah; looks like a stoolie instead of a poolie.

[Guest Grudgie]

I am not a troll first of all. Second of all, you don't think a single action can be 'tactical' because it is 150 years old? Check out Bob Munden.

The revolver can hold bigger rounds. It is generally more reliable. A single action is more accurate. It can be drawn cocked and fired with one hand without adjusting a safety. The 1911 advantage is that you can change magazines very quickly.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Grudgie

[Guest Scramasax]

I guessed this would get interesting as well as (unfortunately) personal in some cases. It has been an interesting read.

Semper Fi, Devil Dogs. No true american could ever not respect the Corps. The butt of many jokes,jibes and insults. Still able to stand tall and protect americans.

Having in another lifetime, before sobriety and failing body kicked in, played in other peoples gardens and sand boxes. I have had the opportunity to play with some of the toys of others. My choice if I was going back to the sandbox would be m14/1911/md12. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it. No replys need be said on this, been there done that.

As to the matter at hand the new pistol for the corps. There are only two handguns that have served all over the world in all climates and conditions for over 100 years.The 1911 and the S&W mdl 10. I won't debate the differences between the two platforms. Just stating that both are still viable.

Last but not least. The CEO of Colt is an old devildog as well.

Cheers,

ts

[Chucktshoes]

Can we get "SHUT THE F**K UP POOLIE!!" as a macro or sumthin?

I mean really.

[Guest Halfpint]

Poolee... take it from someone who's been there -- your attitude and stubbornness will NOT serve you will, aboard MCRD Parris Island, in the Fleet, or life in general.

Hopefully you figure that out before you get someone killed. Very likely, it won't be you -- it will be your buddy. I graduated from SOI on December 11, 2009. By the end of February 2010, three of my buddies were dead.

I do hope you take me up on my offer, by the way.

[Guest Grudgie]

Yes sir

[TGO David]

And Pooley...........shut the F**K up, you don't have ANY basis to speak on ANY thing Marine Corps until you earn that Eagle Globe and Anchor....and then you are only a speak of dust on other's boots........Speak up only whe you have SEVERAL combat tours to lovely places like Iraq, Africa and Afghanistan....

And That's from SSGT Pienaar,............Marine Sniper And Company Gunnery Sergeant...........

Is it wrong that I got a little giddy there?

God bless the USMC.

[Moped]

+1 to Halfpint for an outstanding post on #108!

[RobertNashville]

Here's some good reading on the HK45 and how Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn evolved it from the [at the time] ongoing effort to field a new 1911 for various .mil bodies.

pistol-training.com » HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

It's kind of insightful.

Yet you sold yours to me??? Which, by the way, I love shooting (even thought I'll always be a 1911 guy at heart).

[RobertNashville]

+1 to Halfpint for an outstanding post on #108!

Amen to that...and God bless everyone who has or wears the uniform; whatever the branch

[TGO David]

Yet you sold yours to me??? Which, by the way, I love shooting (even thought I'll always be a 1911 guy at heart).

It's a great gun. Just wasn't for me.