Marine Corp New 1911

[Guest Grudgie]

Yea you really evaded that question. I wouldn't want a Garand in Afghanistan and I'm not a black plastic wonder or "nutjobfancy" fan

Only people who are soldiers/ been to Afghanistan are allowed to have opinions on the matter? I'm sorry, I was under the impression we lived in a free society where evryone is allowed to have an opinion. I don't think you can 'evade' a hypothetical question. I am a Marine poolee.

Now even I know that an M1 Garand has its shortcomings. In the wide open mountains of Afghanistan the Garand would preform better than the M16/M4, but going door-to-door in an urban setting I would prefer a Thompson Sub machinegun.

To answer the question of whether or not the 1911 is superior we must look to what a handgun is being used for in the Marine Corps. The basic grunt is not issued a sidearm. Sidearms are issued to MPs, scout snipers, and officers, and so on. These people would use their side arm as a last resort for when their main weapon has failed in some way.

[G27]

Only people who are soldiers/ been to Afghanistan are allowed to have opinions on the matter? I'm sorry, I was under the impression we lived in a free society where evryone is allowed to have an opinion.

Instead of kicking up a sand storm, maybe think about why someone asked what they did. It's kinda how things are done.

[Guest Grudgie]

We are Americans and Americans like big American calibers. This is why the Marines are going back to the 1911.

[DaveTN]

We are Americans and Americans like big American calibers. This is why the Marines are going back to the 1911.

Are they going back to the 7.62 NATO also? I mean if they are clearing out the candy azz rounds isn’t that next?

[JDM175]

The fact of the matter here is that this is page 8 discussing a 100 yr old venerable service pistol. Obviously the 1911 stirs a range of mixed emotions as evidenced not only here but other sites discussing the same topic with many of the same arguments being posted on both sides. Some comments are insightful and true gems while others are gems for other reasons.

While tradition is unchanged by progress, tradition is not always a bad thing. Maybe we as Americans do like clinging to the old ways (how many antebellum references do you see here in Tennessee daily?) or maybe it is pride in an American designed/made product. Perhaps it is nostalgia or a certain comfort level with the esteemed platform. Maybe it is a distrust of foreign made designs or the fact we like metal better than plastic.

In the end the 1911 has served our country well and can continue to do so whilst providing us seemingly endless internet debating material. While other pistols are most certainly capable of filling the role the Corps has decided they want a 1911. Much like your neighbor deciding he wishes to drive an American made pick-up (is there still such a thing?) while you say your Toyota car is a better option the fantastic plastic vs 1911 debate will never truly be won by either side.

The plastic vs 1911 debate can be summed up like this. Certain plastic guns are much like Toyota cars. They are dependable, reliable and get good gas mileage (read more rounds in the mag) and they are the right choice for the majority of the population. The 1911 on the other hand is like a Chevy 350 engine. Big, strong, metal which has poor gas mileage but when properly tuned can make an excellent race engine and achieve near unequaled performance but when in the hands of the shade tree mechanic or in the case garage gunsmith can spell disaster.

In the end the debate can be summed up much like a syndicated announcer summed up the SEC dominance. He stated that the SEC was the best conference get over it. Much in the same light the 1911 is the best pistol ever get over it:koolaid:

If you wish to argue maybe I should come over to your house and pistol whip you with “the world’s finest close quarter combat weapon†then buttstroke you with my garand and see what you say then. That was a joke as everyone here is getting too serious but it does make for interesting reading.

Thanks for the first 100 years and here’s to another 100!

[Guest Grudgie]

Are they going back to the 7.62 NATO also? I mean if they are clearing out the candy azz rounds isn’t that next?

We can only hope.

[TGO David]

Guys I'm not saying that the 1911 isn't a good gun, but IMO there are better options out there.

What I've been saying since my first comment in this thread, but people get so god damned vitriolic about it when you bring up their favorite sidearm. It's almost worse than talking politics or religion. Probably because the 1911 is a religion.

And I'm sure if you asked 10 Navy SEALs they would prefer the Sig P226. People are going to prefer what they know and what they have trained with.

Agreed.

Only people who are soldiers/ been to Afghanistan are allowed to have opinions on the matter? I'm sorry, I was under the impression we lived in a free society where evryone is allowed to have an opinion. I don't think you can 'evade' a hypothetical question. I am a Marine poolee.

Man... you could have just stopped there. Back when I was looking to become a Marine, poolees weren't allowed to think they knew anything about anything. If you made the mistake of thinking you knew something, there was usually a mountain of an SSGT ready to help you see the error of your ways, usually via pushing them out until your lunch was on the grass in front of you.

Back to your regularly scheduled religious debate. I'm pretty much done with any sort of useful contributions to the thread. I've said what I had to say.

[Guest Hornet Handler]

I am a Marine poolee.

First off you're a poolee. You’re not a boot, or even a shower shoe. So stop throwing the title of Marine in there. You haven't earned it!

Second, by throwing that in there you just nullified any option you may have had.

Now be a good little recruit, find yourself a nice sand pit and PT until you throw up. Then go study your knowledge because you are seriously lacking any.

[nightrunner]

wow, cant you people just get along?

why would you not want the best available?

the 1911 has its strengths and weaknesses just like the HK 45, FNP45, SIG P220, etc. any would be suitable IF they passed torture tests, you like what you are used to no doubt.

If I were to need one in a battle situation itd be between the HK45 and the FNP45, would like to have the ergos of the hk and the capacity of the fn but we never get the perfect gun.

[Guest Grudgie]

They like to equate the people who advocate the 1911 with some sort of unrational fanatic. I assure you, I am quite rational. The Marine Corps will consider adopting the 1911 because it is an American weapon firing a powerful American caliber. And militarys love using weapons of their own country.

A pistol is a status object in the military. It is only issued to some because otherwise it would be inhumane to say, 'If your main weapon fails, oh well..'

[TGO David]

The Marine Corps will consider adopting the 1911 because it is an American weapon firing a powerful American caliber. And militarys love using weapons of their own country.

A pistol is a status object in the military. It is only issued to some because otherwise it would be inhumane to say, 'If your main weapon fails, oh well..'

[mav]

Man willis, you sure do cause a lot of controversy.

This thread has been highly entertaining.

[TNRobocop]

Sad to say, but it is true that a pistol is a status/back-up item rather than an actual main offensive weapon.

Military police only carry it as a primary because it scares the stateside sheep to see rifles carried around base.

Maybe in spec ops the pistol has more use such as for CQB and such, but even there the long gun is primary and a pistol is for back-up.

The pistol is only for fighting until you can make it to a rifle.

[Garufa]

I am still waiting for some evidence that the newest plastic fantastic is better than the 1911 in a combat situation.

From what I've seen so far the argument for newer pistols is capacity, ergonomics and cost-effectiveness. Seems to me the biggest argument is newer is better.

Internally, handguns do nothing different or any better than they did 100 years ago.

I am not an operator, nor have I ever been in the military, combat situation or choose to decide what they need on the other side of the world.

Somebody needs to step up with evidence and proof to defend their stance becuase the is getting a deep around here.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Garufa

[Guest Grudgie]

The irony being that you indirectly say the 1911 is superior while at the same time demanding others back up their claims.

[strickj]

The irony being that you indirectly say the 1911 is superior while at the same time demanding others back up their claims.

What, a 100 years of perfection not enough for ya?

Edited January 29, 2011 by strickj

[Punisher84]

What, a 100 years of perfection not enough for ya?

I don't think that kid knows what the hell he's talking about. Thank God the Corps is gonna think for him, looks like he might need it lol

[Garufa]

The irony being that you indirectly say the 1911 is superior while at the same time demanding others back up their claims.

It does come across that way but not really my intent. I simply just want to know from a technical standpoint why newer is better.

[TGO David]

I am still waiting for some evidence that the newest plastic fantastic is better than the 1911 in a combat situation.

From what I've seen so far the argument for newer pistols is capacity, ergonomics and cost-effectiveness. Seems to me the biggest argument is newer is better.

So you're saying that you scoff at the idea that better ergonomics, ambidextrous controls, lighter weight and improved resistance to corrosion thanks to modern materials, improved ease of maintenance, drop-in replacement parts without the need to file and fit, and increased durability and reliability don't make modern platforms better than the 1911 for a combat handgun?

Really? I mean... you're honestly able to turn a blind eye to so many blatantly obvious improvements and still declare that the 1911 is their equal? Seriously??

Because if you can do that, we have nothing else to discuss. Clearly you want to believe what you want to believe, and nothing that I say or data that I provide or logic that I lay out on the table is going to dissuade you.

[TGO David]

Sad to say, but it is true that a pistol is a status/back-up item rather than an actual main offensive weapon.

Your backup is only a backup until your primary goes pear shaped.

[TGO David]

I don't think that kid knows what the hell he's talking about. Thank God the Corps is gonna think for him, looks like he might need it lol

They're going to have SOOOOO much fun with him.

[Steelharp]

I would think that sand would be worse on plastic than on metal; but I don't know.

[Punisher84]

They're going to have SOOOOO much fun with him.

I sense he's gonna be stout from all those push-ups if he makes it out of boot.

[Steelharp]

I sense he's gonna be stout from all those push-ups if he makes it out of boot.

Especially the ones in the little sand traps.

[TGO David]

Especially the ones in the little sand traps.

The SSGT that ran the poolee program back in my hometown was really fond of using the long-jump pit at the local high-school to illustrate the misery of pushing them out in the sand. Sadly life threw me a curve and I was never able to travel down that road, but the Marines will always hold a gritty, sandy, miserable corner of my heart.