Where to find vegtables/carbs in the woods

[Guest Grudgie]

So I have been thinking about this survival thing recently, and one thing I don't get is how people sustain themselves for weeks in the wilderness. Do they not haave to find carbohydrates in the short term and actual vegtables in the long term? Where do you get them? Can you simply get the nutrients you need from wood bark and grass?

It just seems to me the only thing to eat would be animals. Especially during the winter.

[Guest BEARMAN]

In the winter your main source of carbs would be found in nuts and acorns. You could also eat roots and tubers, as long as you knew the edible ones.

Honeysuckle and greenbrier, might also be palatable if steamed in a pot of water.

[Oh Shoot]

Homo sapiens does not require carbs. None, zero, zip. There is no necessary nutrient found only in a carbohydrate.

All energy can be produced from protein and fat.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Store rice, it is cheap enough to be able to stock pile a few months worth for very little money. Walmart sells it for $6/20 pounds. I have started storing the stuff in food safe containers and putting dry ice in the containers to displace the oxygen to keep the critters at bay and to help with oxidation. I am starting to do the same with beans now for protein in the event I can't find any through hunting.

I am not doing a lot, just enough to keep the wife and I in food for long enough until a garden can produce.

Dolomite

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Homo sapiens does not require carbs. None, zero, zip. There is no necessary nutrient found only in a carbohydrate.

All energy can be produced from protein and fat.

- OS

I can't find a web link for this, but a History Channel documentary about Lewis and Clark said when the expedition wintered at the northern pacific they didn't like it very much because it rained all the time and there was nothing to eat but moose.

The show said there was plenty of moose to eat and the men were eating several pounds a day and still nearly starving to death because moose does not have much fat content. Said the expedition was really happy to pack up and head east again.

Maybe that was incorrect history, dunno. If true, of course the men did survive on a near-pure protein diet, but sounds like they neither enjoyed it or thrived. I like meat. Eating mostly meat would't hurt my feelings, though you could get tired of anything.

[BryanP]

Homo sapiens does not require carbs. None, zero, zip. There is no necessary nutrient found only in a carbohydrate.

All energy can be produced from protein and fat.

- OS

The human body requires glucose to survive. Glucose is easily converted from carbohydrates. If necessary the body can scavenge protein to convert to glucose, but it's not nearly as efficient.

[Guest Grudgie]

We have established that carbohydrates would be nice to have, my question is where or how to get them miles from civilization.

[DRM]

There is no magic answer: seeds, nuts, and fruits. Find them - eat them. Which ones depend on where you are and what the current season is.

[Oh Shoot]

"The woods" is generally a pretty poor source for human food period, except for animal life and the already mentioned nuts and mushrooms. The vast majority of wild human foods are found in more open areas, and of course near or in water. There's a reason that we seem to have first thrived as a species in savanna type terrain.

... moose to eat and the men were eating several pounds a day and still nearly starving to death because moose does not have much fat content.

Certainly we require certain amounts of fat. A pure rabbit diet is often cited as an example of how to starve to death with a full belly. I'm not knowledgeable about fat content in moose, but as far as the Lewis and Clark guys, may have as much to do with simple monotony of diet cravings as much as anything...it's takes a long time to "starve to death" as long as you're getting calories, even from just predominately lean meat.

The human body requires glucose to survive. Glucose is easily converted from carbohydrates. If necessary the body can scavenge protein to convert to glucose, but it's not nearly as efficient.

Yes carbohydrates get the priority, then fats, then protein, but efficiency isn't so important as long as it works period -- certainly we got by with minimal carbs earlier than ~6-8,000 years ago, since we didn't grow anything before that. And of course it doesn't take but a fraction of the carbs most of us consume to supply glucose levels; excess carb is immediately stored as fat rather than eliminated. That's a good thing for early man for seasonal fat/lean cycles just like any other animal, but certainly a bad thing for contemporary man, since there's no lean season at all.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

FWIW:

Rabbit Starvation

Which basically opines that you need some fat as well as protein or you're doomed. I don't know about the reality of rabbit starvation but if I had to bug out somewhere it wouldn't be the woods around here. I set my sites for the panhandle of Florida, tons of food sources.

[Oh Shoot]

... but if I had to bug out somewhere it wouldn't be the woods around here. ..

Yeah, it's absurd to think that one person out of 100 could survive for even a year with what he could carry into what still passes as the TN wilderness. Maybe 4 out of a hundred that first year, counting cannibalism.

One exception might be on lakes and rivers given enough fishing and trapping skills. If you look back at pre-agriculture Woodland Period in Eastern US, all the major tribal territories were based on the waterways.

- OS

[Guest Republican]

Vegetables in the woods:

Dandelions, Cat Tails, Ramps or Leeks whichever you prefer call them- they are sort of a wild onion, ginseng, yellowroot, blackberry, blueberry, wild strawberry, wild cherry, crab apples, persimmon, mulberry, wild grapes, all the nuts already mentioned and then some, rhubarb, poke. If you can find an old homeplace in the woods, there is almost always some type of fruit tree nearby, almost.

I dont know jack about mushrooms, so I do not eat those, but I know alot of people who find and eat the truffle variety I think.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I had idly wondered why pine nuts are so expensive. If accurate, this article appears to explain why--

How to Harvest Pine Nuts | eHow.com

It sounds like it would be a lot of work to live on pine nuts in the forest for a couple of months in the fall.

[LngRngShtr]

These in your library will be good reference..

An older Boy Scout Handbook say from the 60's or so..I have my Dads from 1956 more outdoors than my version from the '80s

"SAS Survival Handbook, Revised Edition: For Any Climate, in Any Situation"

John 'lofty' Wiseman; Paperback

"How to Survive the End of the World as We Know It: Tactics, Techniques, and Technologies for Uncertain Times" James Wesley Rawles; Paperback

"U S Army Survival Manual: FM 21-76" Paperback

"Back to Basics: A Complete Guide to Traditional Skills, Third Edition" Abigail R. Gehring; Hardcover

"Emergency Food Storage & Survival Handbook: Everything You Need to Know to Keep Your Family Safe in a Crisis" Peggy Layton; Paperback

and then go out and practice in your area.... Enjoy "getting lost"

John

[Ghooge2008]

someone posted they were storing rice and beans with dry ice to remove air...my buddy uses nitrogen, he gets a huge bottle refilled at volunteer welding supply for 11bucks. I dont know if this is a good idea but he says the notrogen is very dry and will remove any damp air...he doesnt use much i'm sure, and I dont know the process other than using nitrogen, but he has about 30 5 gallon buckets full of rice, beans, and wheat seeds. and then he has a full celler of canned tomatoes, apples, pear jam, okra, homemade pickles...and such

[Moped]

I tend to agree with OS, that most would starve to death trying to survive out in the Wilderness as we know it here in Tennessee. Better to go storing it like DS and Ghooge said. Rice and beans, while it would get old, would definitely keep you alive through a winter. But then what? Not only should you store up a reserve of food, but also heirloom seeds for a garden. Which also means you need something to help you till the ground. And you better have some sort of knowledge about how to long term store what you grow (canning or drying comes to mind).

Preparedness and survival is so much more than hitting the woods and going deer hunting long term like a mountain man. In my mind the best thing to do is group up with people you can trust and try to get by together while sharing knowledge, experience and resources.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Moped

[Guest mosinon]

I keep hearing about these gas replacement methods. I am befuddled by them . Is this a move to make the food last longer by removing free oxygen (obviously with CO2 you're not removing oxygen you are increasing it) If so isn't that the worst way to do it? Wouldn't you be better off getting one of those suck and seal deals and vacuum packing a few pounds per bag? Great, you flush out everything with nitrogen but then you've still got a five gallon bucket of rice to eat that you have to open every day. probably multiple times a day. In the olden days they used to save food a lot longer than we do know, dried rice, beans and so forth. I somehow doubt that they were us

Dammit, thread drift. Back to living in the woods.

I suspect, as OhShoot said, that there wen't a lot of indians living in the mountains back in the day. I bet that were living along rivers and such. I'd further wager that if took a long look at the population centers of today you'd find that they were population centers back in the day as well. For a lot of reasons. Easy access to water and so forth. Once you go agriculture you never go back.

In a true SHTF situation grab that 22 and start walking south.And hope that a lot of people in the south are already dead cause you don't want to compete with them.

[Guest Grudgie]

As the original poster, I give you permission to threadjack the thread. I am intrested in the rice storage methods.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Mosinon

There are chemists aboard who will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the bonds of CO2 are strong enough that the oxygen in CO2 would be very unlikely to "like" anything in rice and wheat good enough that it could reach a lower energy state binding to compounds in the food.

Commercial emergency-long-term storage companies like Perma Pak have canned bulk dry foods in nitrogen since at least the 1960's. I don't know how far before that. The Mormons believe in emergency food storage as a component of the religious history-culture, and I got the impression that mormons were initially behind companies like Perma Pak.

It would be interesting to know if other sub-cultures were working on long-term storage before the mormons. Of course there is the story of Egypt's 7 years of feast and 7 years of famine...

[East_TN_Patriot]

As the original poster, I give you permission to threadjack the thread. I am intrested in the rice storage methods.

One source I looked at suggested using plastic 5 gallon buckets that can be sealed tightly and storing dry rice and dry beans in a cool place. They also recommended using food-grade mylar bags (interesting thing was they also sell these said bags). Before sealing you have to take steps to remove oxygen and water to prevent spoilage. There are a variety of ways to do that. Here are a couple of helpful sites with some basic info:

Doing Your Own Food Storage.

Food Storage Calculator

https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/storage_life_of_foods.htm

[Guest mosinon]

Hi Mosinon

There are chemists aboard who will correct me if I'm wrong, but I suspect that the bonds of CO2 are strong enough that the oxygen in CO2 would be very unlikely to "like" anything in rice and wheat good enough that it could reach a lower energy state binding to compounds in the food.

Commercial emergency-long-term storage companies like Perma Pak have canned bulk dry foods in nitrogen since at least the 1960's. I don't know how far before that. The Mormons believe in emergency food storage as a component of the religious history-culture, and I got the impression that mormons were initially behind companies like Perma Pak.

It would be interesting to know if other sub-cultures were working on long-term storage before the mormons. Of course there is the story of Egypt's 7 years of feast and 7 years of famine...

Thanks Lester. I think you are right that free oxygen is more reactive than CO2. But that is as far as my knowledge goes and I wouldn't be surprised to find out I am wrong on that.

Sadly, I am not interested in how companies have always done it, I am more interested in what the best thing going right now is. Honestly, I can't see how rice storage is better with nitrogen than vacuum packing. That doesn't mean that it isn't better it just means the explanation is lost on me.

I'm one of those people who wants to know, exactly, why x is better than y.

[mr.ak47]

I think *note I think* lol that the whole reason that people say nitrogen is better then vacuum packaging is due to even if an insect some how penetrates your bucket,bag or whatever your food is stored in that the nitrogen absorbs more oxygen.So that the insect would not be able to survive again that's what I've gathered it may not be totally correct or correct at all but that's what I seem to gather out of most of the articles I've read

[Guest Hoppy]

Back to the topic of carbs in the woods:

I agree with Republican about the variety of foods found in TN wild areas. I recommend to focus on learning one specific item at a time. Learn to identify it 100% in all seasons. Learn how to harvest it and prepare it. Practice occasionally. When you feel that you know that item good then learn another one. It can be overwhelming to try to learn it all at once so start slowly.

Start with cattails. These can be found almost in every wet area in TN and can be easily identified and harvested in all seasons. This is a staple food for survivors and should be number one on the list of plants to know how to use. This is like the food-court of the forest and is very useful. Cattails have so many edible parts that I don't know where to begin. The tubers can be harvested year round, even from the dead looking plants in the winter time. They can be used just like potatoes. They are a little stringy, but taste fine and are very starchy. I have eaten these roasted, boiled, and raw. I have also made beer from the roots with okay results. The heart of the stems of the plant can be eaten any time the plant is green. The center tender growth toward the bottom is the best part. It is starchy and very tasty raw or cooked. You can eat it straight from the plant or you can cut it up into a nice salad of wild greens.

I have done taste tests with people without telling them it was cattail stem and they all thought is was good. Plus, everyone agrees that the stem tastes and has the consistency of cucumber, but without the seeds. The seed heads can be cooked like corn on the cob. Very tasty fried or roasted. Can get soggy if boiled. The pollen from the male cattail is very large and can be used just like corn meal or can be added to flour or cornmeal as an additive. I have collected the pollen and put it in soup and also make simple bread from it. The larger cattail leaves can be used for fibers for cordage too.

You can also gather wild onions and eat them like regular onions. I have had a feast of meat, "potatoes", and onions in the wild. Of course it was really squirrel, cattail roots, and wild onions but it seemed like a feast at the time. Cattails and onions will get you started.

Here is a simple meal that can be gathered during the active growing season: Boil water with sliced cattail roots, sliced wild onions, meat or bones from small game, and a little cattail pollen for thickening. Take cattail pollen and wild grass seeds and pound them into a course flour. Mix with a little water to form a paste and spoon onto a hot flat rock for a pancake/biscuit to go with the soup. Have a cattail inner stem to munch on like a piece of celery. Tasty, filling, and balanced.

Happy gathering!

I hope this helps.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Hoppy
Additional info on cattails and a meal recipe