It's not fair.

[Ghooge2008]

That I work and my wife works, and we end up paying in or barely getting anything while watching people get 3-8k bucks back for not working or only working half the year, and they get free insurance and co pays, while it costs us over 4500...plus copays and medicine. just wanted to get that off my chest.

[Guest Bronker]

The problem with robbing Peter to pay Paul is that eventually Peter runs out of money. I believe Prime Minister Thatcher said that.

[kb4ns]

The problem with robbing Peter to pay Paul is that eventually Peter runs out of money. I believe Prime Minister Thatcher said that.

Yep. Another good one along the same lines:

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul."

-- George Bernard Shaw

[bigwakes]

"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."

--Dave Ramsey

[enfield]

Life isn't "fair".

Never has been, never will be. No politician can make it "fair".

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yep. Another good one along the same lines:

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul."

-- George Bernard Shaw

Shaw didn't really care to much about Peter.

The problem with socialism is that eventually, it

runs out of other people's money. Welfare,Ocare

Food Stamps, etc. Eventually these folks have to

get off their collective asses and produce before

Ghooge goes broke.

You just do your taxes?

[pitt2magic]

I dont expect it to get any better, only worse. We are punished for getting an education and working hard so others can sit on their butt. The new American way.

[kb4ns]

Shaw didn't really care to much about Peter.

That's true, but the quote is still spot on!

[Jonnin]

Fair is one of those things that means different things to different people. To some, its unfair that a few folks have high paying jobs. To others, its unfair that some folks live off the govt.

If you can make more by quitting your job than having it, then quit --- that makes sense twice over (once for getting paid more, and once for the free time). If not, be glad for what you have, many folks cannot find a decent job, or are having to work outside their field/skill set/etc. A few people are abusing the system. A lot more are really trying and there is nothing suitable to be had. Sure, an engineer can scrub toilets at a gas station and have "an income", or he can keep looking for something useful while on unemployment. If forced into a min wage job, he might tell you that something is not "fair"...

I dislike government handouts, but I also dislike a government that is preventing recovery and tampering with the stock market. This admistration does nothing to encourage business to grow and hire, and the bailouts mess with stock values (now, if you invest, you must guess which company will be allowed to go bankrupt and which will be bailed out!). You have bama attacking the leaders of big business, preventing them from making money, what is their motivation to work hard to grow the company and hire people if they cannot earn the bonus for doing this, but still suffer the risks if their decisions go wrong.

To sum it all up: its a mess. You are correct, its not cool that 20% of america is living off handouts. But a fair number of those people would take a good job if they could get one. Not all of them, some people are mooches, but for the most part people want the american dream of a job with decent pay, a decent lifestyle, and a chance to do better.

[LagerHead]

"A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well."

--Dave Ramsey

Yep. He also said if you get a tax return, you are doing your taxes poorly. Don't loan money to the government for a year. If you got a tax return last year, this year you should be paying more each month.

[Defender]

It's nothing less than income redistribution. There's a whole segment of society that simply chooses not to work. I'm not talking about those who have fallen on hard times, but about those who just make a choice to live off of somebody else's hard work. I support my family. I also give to charity. Perhaps I could give more to charity, but I don't like the government just taking my money and giving it to someone who wont work. I know many people who get back every penny they pay in for what little work they do plus get a couple three grand extra! It's beyond unfair, its outright socialism and if we don't do something about it, it will only get worse until we collapse economically.

[1gewehr]

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.

Alexis de Tocqueville

[Links2k]

Life isn't "fair".

Never has been, never will be. No politician can make it "fair".

You are my Hero!

[Links2k]

I dont expect it to get any better, only worse. We are punished for getting an education and working hard so others can sit on their butt. The new American way.

You can't really believe that. I don't agree with people getting freebies, but that statement is incredible.

[Guest Jcochran88]

I work at a Restaurant that employees several folks at or slightly above minimum wage. You would be amazed at the number of applicants that tell me they can make more money sitting on the couch waiting for the mail than I pay. I want to reach over there and smack the crap out of them every time.

[Links2k]

I had a similar conversation with a co-worker last night. He insisted that there had to be a way to make dead beats get off of their asses and produce. I say that you have a segment of the population that does not give a and won't change regardless what you take from them.

Some people simply don't care. You can stop the checks and food stamps and that person still won't work and become productive.

[mcurrier]

To some, its unfair that a few folks have high paying jobs.

Some people do think that way.

However, if every person on the planet received a box with $1 million in cash tomorrow, no one would be any better off than they are today (unless some stole the boxes of others). But assuming all things being equal...

The person who had $10 billion yesterday would still have $10 billion + $1 million.

Those who had close to zero would all have $1 million + close to zero.

Point being that those who were poor yesterday would still be poor as $1 million would be nothing if everyone had it.

Someone would still have to grow corn, someone would still have to work on cars, someone would still have to run the trains, someone would still have to bake bread, etc.

EVERYONE can't retire! It isn't possible. Or if they all do, they will soon all starve and die.

There will always be a need for someone to keep working.

We need to get it to where the majority are currently working (legitimately), and very few aren't.

With all of the baby boomers about to come out of the work force, it is not mathematically possible for 1 person still working to support 6-12 people not working. Any moron should be able to see that.

[Trekbike]

Maybe this will help explain how this works...

[vontar]

Yup, I know people that typically get 8K back and I am no better off then them. My wife and I both work full time. She does not have benefits, I cover our medical insurance though my work. Our best tax return was last year and it was only 1k. This year I expect to get a bit more because of the Heat/AC unit (tax credit 1500) I should be able to get. But still I know exactly what you mean.

Plus most of those people that get those 4-8k checks, 2 weeks later they are broke again. Instead of paying off a bill they have, they go buy more stuff, then complain all year about barely making it pay check to pay check.

[redfsr]

Yep. He also said if you get a tax return, you are doing your taxes poorly. Don't loan money to the government for a year. If you got a tax return last year, this year you should be paying more each month.

What he said.

[Mechanic_X]

Seems like I read that a family of 4 on welfare was making $38,000 in cash and benefits.

Welfare is the worst "good" thing ever done to people. And it is high on the bad things list.

[Oh Shoot]

Seems like I read that a family of 4 on welfare was making $38,000 in cash and benefits.

Welfare is the worst "good" thing ever done to people. And it is high on the bad things list.

Part of the late great USA are the many policies that have penalized success and rewarded failure for so long now that we're not pulling things out without beau coup national pain.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

How much do we actually spend on welfare? Not much (maybe 1% of the tax dollars). Where does the money really go? Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and the Department of Defense.

But I get the idea that welfare pisses people off. It pisses me off. I go into target and damned if there aren't "we're hiring" signs. Why am I paying for people when he fricking target is hiring?

Shortsighted position. Ideally what we'd want is to break the cycle of dependancy. The fix for that is easy. You stop paying for BS and you start paying for progress. Your kids are in school? You get some dough. You're kids are running free, sorry, no welfare for you. You give it to the moms cause the dads won't spend it on the family.

Your kid makes it through college? Bonus!

Sure, it costs more right now but you break the cycle. The people who have always been a burden on the system are producing people who won't be a burden.

Well, I have no idea if that will actually work but it has to better than what is going on now.

[Mike.357]

Yep. He also said if you get a tax return, you are doing your taxes poorly. Don't loan money to the government for a year. If you got a tax return last year, this year you should be paying more each month.

Ramsey says a lot of things. My best guess is that he is out of touch with the reality of a guy who is married, has a kid or two and is scraping by on 12 or 14 dollars an hour. While it does make sense on the bottom line to keep more of your take home week to week, a lot of people can't find a way to save that money on their own. Kids need shoes, lunch money etc... But if the money is gone from your check before you see it then it becomes a savings account of sorts. Even with no interest being gained a LOT of people use it as a savings device to be able to purchase big ticket items they normally could not save for.

Ghooge you ain't alone. I end up owing just about every year, Ramsey would like my method.

[Links2k]

Ramsey says a lot of things. My best guess is that he is out of touch with the reality of a guy who is married, has a kid or two and is scraping by on 12 or 14 dollars an hour. While it does make sense on the bottom line to keep more of your take home week to week, a lot of people can't find a way to save that money on their own. Kids need shoes, lunch money etc... But if the money is gone from your check before you see it then it becomes a savings account of sorts. Even with no interest being gained a LOT of people use it as a savings device to be able to purchase big ticket items they normally could not save for.

Ghooge you ain't alone. I end up owing just about every year, Ramsey would like my method.

good point