Is ‘Project Gunwalker’ about to bust wide open?

[G27]

If there is a settlement (or a case dismissal); no one testifies about anything.

Sure, but since they're not suing for money, I doubt we'd see a settlement. Case dismissal? Possibly, time will tell...

[Worriedman]

Breaking News: Source claims ATF's Tampa SAC walked guns to Honduras - National gun rights | Examiner.com

Sipsey Street Irregulars: Honduras? Why would ATF walk guns to Honduras? 1. The national scope of the Gunwalker Scandal & 2. Because that's where some of the action is.

First, and this is important to understand: the Tampa operation proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that "Project Gunwalker" was a national strategy, not a Phoenix aberration.

[bajabuc]

We have Federal Legislators intoning that illegals should, and could be President of the US some day.

I personally have no problem believing that our current bunch of thugs in the White House would do ANYTHING to make it easier to pass new gun control measures, up to and including transferring guns directly to cartels to make the average gun owner look bad. They have already said they will advance gun control by Executive Order, so what makes you think that they are going to play by the rules in any other game.

I have no difficulty in believing that the mass shooters and assinators are government thugs paid to do the shooting.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

Amid Fast and Furious probe, Democrats push new gun control bill

Justice Department trying to shield officials in guns scandal, ATF chief says

Issa, Grassley Press for Answers from FBI, DEA in Fast and Furious Investigation

So, relatively recent stuff:

The ATF walked guns to Honduras as well. Melson has talked and has alleged a DOJ cover-up. The FBI and DEA had confidential informants involved.

And the Democrats are trying to push a gun control bill. Sorry, fellas. Too late now. Your scheme to blame gun shops and pass gun control might have worked if the cartels hadn't killed Brian Terry with guns that YOU walked. Or if John Dodson hadn't possessed a conscience and a spine. Or if Codrea and Vanderboegh hadn't doggedly pursued this thing despite larger media apathy and dismissal of the situation as a tinfoil hat conspiracy theory by many.

One last link that sums things up: a political cartoon.

[Worriedman]

The PJ Tatler » Gunwalker: New Hearings Scheduled

[DaveTN]

The DEA and drug task forces all over the country let drugs pass to see where they are going. These drugs kill people or cause deaths through the crimes committed by the users to get them.

I’m not sure I have a problem with allowing these guns to pass to see where they end up. The problem here is that this whole plan, as far as I can tell, was conceived to make it appear that Obama and Clinton had a clue of what they were talking about…. They didn’t.

To say that Federal Agents caused Agent Terry’s death, or the death of others in Mexico; you would need to believe that if it wasn’t for this plan the criminals would not have had guns in their hands. Blaming the U.S. for any criminal actions by the drug cartels is ridiculous.

This is not a real investigation. If it was it would have been over by now. This is Senators and Congressmen trying to make a name for themselves.

Making a lot of noise about this is playing right into the hands of those that want more gun legislation. Subpoena the people you want to talk to, let them say what they have to say, and do whatever you are going to do, and be done with it.

[Worriedman]

The DEA and drug task forces all over the country let drugs pass to see where they are going. These drugs kill people or cause deaths through the crimes committed by the users to get them.

I’m not sure I have a problem with allowing these guns to pass to see where they end up. The problem here is that this whole plan, as far as I can tell, was conceived to make it appear that Obama and Clinton had a clue of what they were talking about…. They didn’t.

To say that Federal Agents caused Agent Terry’s death, or the death of others in Mexico; you would need to believe that if it wasn’t for this plan the criminals would not have had guns in their hands. Blaming the U.S. for any criminal actions by the drug cartels is ridiculous.

This is not a real investigation. If it was it would have been over by now. This is Senators and Congressmen trying to make a name for themselves.

Making a lot of noise about this is playing right into the hands of those that want more gun legislation. Subpoena the people you want to talk to, let them say what they have to say, and do whatever you are going to do, and be done with it.

At least we have a few in Congress willing to call the hand of the Administration on what appears on the face of it, to be criminal activity on the part of public employees e.g. facilitating the transfer of weapons to know criminals. May not be a "real" investigation in your eyes, but at least it is getting looked into instead of being summarily swept under the rug with no scrutiny.

[Guest oldsmobile98]

<style type="text/css">#toc, .toc, .mw-warning { border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); padding: 5px; font-size: 95%; }#toc h2, .toc h2 { display: inline; border: medium none; padding: 0pt; font-size: 100%; font-weight: bold; }#toc #toctitle, .toc #toctitle, #toc .toctitle, .toc .toctitle { text-align: center; }#toc ul, .toc ul { list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; margin-left: 0pt; padding-left: 0pt; text-align: left; }#toc ul ul, .toc ul ul { margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 2em; }#toc .toctoggle, .toc .toctoggle { font-size: 94%; }body { text-indent: 0in; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; font-weight: normal; font-variant: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14pt; font-style: normal; widows: 2; font-family: 'Nimbus Roman No9 L'; }table { }td { border-collapse: collapse; text-align: left; vertical-align: top; }</style> Let's take DaveTN's post point by point.

The DEA and drug task forces all over the country let drugs pass to see where they are going. These drugs kill people or cause deaths through the crimes committed by the users to get them.

I’m not sure I have a problem with allowing these guns to pass to see where they end up.

Attorney General Holder says: "...letting guns walk is not something that is acceptable. Guns are different than drug cases or cases where we're trying to follow where money goes. We cannot have a situation where guns are allowed to walk, and I've made that clear to the United States attorneys as well as the agents in charge in the various ATF offices."

ATF Special Agent Rene Jaquez says: "The idea of letting guns walk is alarming in itself. I'm a thirty-three-year old veteran in law enforcement. I mean, we don't let guns walk. I've been working undercover for about 20 years with the Chicago Police Department and with ATF. You don't let guns walk. I have never let a gun walk. I've done a lot of undercover; never let guns walk."

The problem here is that this whole plan, as far as I can tell, was conceived to make it appear that Obama and Clinton had a clue of what they were talking about…. They didn’t.

The claim that 90% of the guns obtained by Mexican drug cartels come from the United States is false, as you say. But Obama and Clinton were not clueless; they knew exactly what they were doing. Substantiating the 90% claim by walking thousands of guns was done in order to create an optimum political climate for passing gun control legislation in the US.

To say that Federal Agents caused Agent Terry’s death, or the death of others in Mexico; you would need to believe that if it wasn’t for this plan the criminals would not have had guns in their hands. Blaming the U.S. for any criminal actions by the drug cartels is ridiculous.

I would suggest that you look at page 16 of this letter from Grassley to Holder. It is an email from David Voth (group supervisor for ATF Phoenix Group VII). He notes the increase of violence in Mexico, advising his subordinates to have an increased sense of urgency about completing the operation. In other words, he was acknowledging that ATF gun walking was causing the deaths of many Mexicans.

This is not a real investigation. If it was it would have been over by now. This is Senators and Congressmen trying to make a name for themselves.

It is a real investigation. DOJ is stonewalling, and it takes time to get the facts and to go through the legal system. The Watergate burglars were arrested in 1972, but Nixon didn't resign until 1974. Iran-Contra was first discovered in 1986, and North and Poindexter were not indicted until 1988. The first revelations about Gunwalker were in December, which makes it 7 months by my count. Hundreds of Mexicans and two US agents are dead. However long it takes to get to the bottom of this, it will be worth it.

Making a lot of noise about this is playing right into the hands of those that want more gun legislation. Subpoena the people you want to talk to, let them say what they have to say, and do whatever you are going to do, and be done with it.

How will exposing the misdeeds of the DOJ and the ATF convince Congress to pass gun control legislation? The governmental architects of this bloody plan tried to increase violence in Mexico, then pin the blame for it on gun shops and gun shows. The investigation has already shown and will continue to show that the administration, not the citizenry, contains the real criminals.

Edited July 21, 2011 by oldsmobile98

[Worriedman]

Feds Refuse to Explain How Convicted Felons Bought Guns in 'Operation Fast and Furious' - FoxNews.com

However, according to court records reviewed by Fox News, two of the 20 defendants indicted in the Fast and Furious investigation have felony convictions and criminal backgrounds that experts say, at the very least, should have delayed them buying a single firearm. Instead, the duo bought dozens of guns on multiple occasions while federal officials watched on closed-circuit cameras. (emphasis mine)

Seems like some officials knew that criminal activity was taking place.

[ttocswob]

...or enabled said criminal activity to proceed:...the FBI, via NICS, knowingly allowed the purchases to go forward after consulting with the BATFE.

[ttocswob]

"Gunwalker" makes Washington Post: Can we say "busted wide open" now?

A gunrunning sting gone fatally wrong.

I linked the printable option so you can see it all on one page.

Also, Mike makes World Net Daily, and David on the "perfect storm of idiocy"

Later today: the third round of hearings in the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

[monkeylizard]

Here's the Joint Staff Report from Sen. Grassley's office for those who like to read government documents.

http://grassley.senate.gov/judiciary/upload/ATF-07-26-11-Report-on-Impact-on-Mexico.pdf

[G27]

Fox is streaming the House Committee Hearing on Justice Dept.'s Operation 'Fast and Furious': FoxNews.com - Breaking News | Latest News | Current News

[bajabuc]

Who was president in 2005?

ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.

Thanks Wikipedia

[G27]

Who was president in 2005?

Thanks Wikipedia

Are you suggesting bush was complicit? Shocking!

</sarcasm>

Bush isn't in office anymore (thank goodness), so all we can do is go after the current administration (which specifically funded F&F in the stimulus bill...). Turning this into anything other than an attack on our rights by playing partisan politics only helps those who wish to attack our liberty.

[bajabuc]

yup...that Texas playboy multi millioniar with the IQ of a snake started this

[ttocswob]

Baja, given your penchant for thread resurrection, steam locomotives, and B movies, your recycling of the “blame Bush†meme is hardly surprising.

But, as it was once said in the hills of East Tennessee, that dog won’t hunt.

A little more recent history, if you will.

[/url]

From Mike’s conversation with an ATF informant:

Gunrunner, I pointed out to him, predated the Obama administration. "Yes, but 'walking guns' didn't." I told him it seemed to me that given the dates on the documents that the meetings crafting this policy must have taken place sometime in mid-2009. "And who took power in January, 2009?" he replied.

Although Project Gunrunner started in 2005, the strategy of walking guns into Mexico apparently began in 2009.

And, the guns recovered at the scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry’s murder were purchased and walked in January 2010.

[G27]

Plausible deniability from the WH is looking less and less likely: ATF Manager says he shared Fast and Furious Info with White House - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I just read that, too. CBS is actually reporting something that may slap the "messiah"

down. Evidently the dropped out of the "Worship Obama" camp for the moment. Didn't

they break the story?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yep, that Wikipedia is a fine source of knowledge. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[ttocswob]

NRA - Wayne's Commentary

Minimizing Obama's Fast And Furious Scandal

The lackeys in the lamestream media try to contain the damage.

[ttocswob]

ATF promotes supervisors in controversial gun operation. L.A. Times(!)

William McMahon, William Newell, and David Voth all promoted to a higher level of incompetence.

Brian Terry is still dead.

[sigmtnman]

They are out of control.

[DaveTN]

Two of the recovered guns were found at the scene where Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was shot to death in southern Arizona on Dec. 14, although it's unclear whether the fatal bullet came from one of those weapons or another gun.

This came up in a story in another thread. It’s not what has been reported prior. So all this hype about one of these guns being used to kill a Border Patrol Agent may not be true.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Dave, it really doesn't matter if it was the particular gun that fired the fatal

bullet, does it? What the heck is that particular gun doing there, in the first place?