Is ‘Project Gunwalker’ about to bust wide open?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

An IQ under 70 is considered as "mental retardation" or limited mental ability.

Yup, about 2 standard deviations below the mean. But Lake Woebegone is the only place where Everybody is Above Average!

[Worriedman]

I read the full article; its non-sense and Grandstanding. Illegal aliens and drug dealers have no credibility whatsoever. I have absolutely no concern with what they have to say.

To start making claims that cartel guns were purchased directly from the government is ridiculous unless you have something to back that claim up. It makes it easy for the public to choose not to believe any part of it and not worry about it being swept under the rug.

We have Federal Legislators intoning that illegals should, and could be President of the US some day.

I personally have no problem believing that our current bunch of thugs in the White House would do ANYTHING to make it easier to pass new gun control measures, up to and including transferring guns directly to cartels to make the average gun owner look bad. They have already said they will advance gun control by Executive Order, so what makes you think that they are going to play by the rules in any other game.

[G27]

I personally have no problem believing that our current bunch of thugs in the White House would do ANYTHING to make it easier to pass new gun control measures, up to and including transferring guns directly to cartels to make the average gun owner look bad. They have already said they will advance gun control by Executive Order, so what makes you think that they are going to play by the rules in any other game.

Considering Project Gunwalker started in 2006, while "I'll sign a new AWB" Bush was in office, I think we need to stop thinking of the current thugs as being anything but bolder than the previous thugs.

Very, very few elected folks in DC give anything more than lip service to our Constitutional rights. Doesn't matter what the letter beside their name is or what promises they make while campaigning...

[DaveTN]

We have Federal Legislators intoning that illegals should, and could be President of the US some day.

I personally have no problem believing that our current bunch of thugs in the White House would do ANYTHING to make it easier to pass new gun control measures, up to and including transferring guns directly to cartels to make the average gun owner look bad. They have already said they will advance gun control by Executive Order, so what makes you think that they are going to play by the rules in any other game.

I think Obama is a clown and would like to see him and his whole administration impeached. But making claims that are not true will give them an out. Claiming that agents made no attempt to stop illegal gun sales (happens with drugs all the time) is a whole lot different than charging that cartels bought their guns from the U.S. government.

Even if the “Gunwalker†claims are verified; what gun laws do think Obama is going to try to pass?

I personally don’t know why this investigation is taking so long. I could have finished this up in a few days. Politicians should not be investigators.

[Worriedman]

Considering Project Gunwalker started in 2006, while "I'll sign a new AWB" Bush was in office, I think we need to stop thinking of the current thugs as being anything but bolder than the previous thugs.

Very, very few elected folks in DC give anything more than lip service to our Constitutional rights. Doesn't matter what the letter beside their name is or what promises they make while campaigning...

Considering that the dollar amount pressed into service from the Stimulus came from the current bunch of thugs, and the attempt to set the whole thing up to foster more gun control laws apparently comes from them as well, I will stick by my statement that I do not trust them at all.

To your point that Gun Walker started under Bush, I never considered my 2nd Amendment Rights safe in his hands either.

Seems that another News (WND) source is giving the latest postulation some credence as well.

Obama stimulus funded 'guns-to-drug-lords' plan

Pratt also believes that some of the guns were purchased by the Mexican cartels directly from federal agents.

"One of the founders of the cartel, one of their top 14 directors if you will, a guy whose nickname is El Mamito, has said that he was buying guns directly from the federal government," Pratt explained.

Jesus Rejon Aguilar, nicknamed El Mamito or "Pretty Boy," the third highest ranking member of the drug gang Los Zetas, was captured Monday by Mexican authorities.

Pratt said he believes for the guns to go across at a designated location, there had to be coordination between several federal law enforcement agencies.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

This article (which was perhaps already linked above) mentions about $63.5 million since BHO took over, much of it stimulus money.

BOMBSHELL DISCOVERY – ATF Gunrunner Project Funded by Obama’s Stimulus Bill | The Last Refuge

Some references mention up to 2500 guns.

If that is the sum total of funding and guns, then the gov provided guns to gangsters at a mere $25,400 per gun! What a bargain! That is better money efficiency than most gov programs. We should promote the bureaucrats for running such a fiscally responsible program.

The stimulus costed about a quarter million dollars for every job "saved or created." However the ATF only spent a tenth of that per gun so that gangsters can make a living. That is admirable gov efficiency much better than the quarter million per "saved or created" job!

It does not account for however many guns or funds were channeled thru the Florida Tampa-Honduras gunwalking or other yet-to-be-discovered smuggling points. It does not account for sums additionally spent by FBI and DHS in funding gangster informants to buy those guns.

So perhaps we spent a lot more than $25,400 apiece on the Guns for Gangsters program, unless the other depts managed to move sufficient guns to maintain efficiency of scale. On the other hand, if they moved a lot more guns than we know about, perhaps the gov has achieved fabulous bang-for-the-buck with this program?

[Worriedman]

Even if the “Gunwalker†claims are verified; what gun laws do think Obama is going to try to pass?

I do not think he intends to try and "pass" anything, knowing that there is not enough support in the House, he intends to try and satisfy his base through Executive Order. From the articles:

"That said, there are many steps the president can take on his own authority, without new laws, that could make a very real difference."

If you don't like the Huffington Post in the first article, the same thing is posted in USA Today in the second.

Obama Looking For Ways Around Congress On Gun Policy

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-07-08-obama-gun-control-safety-giffords_n.htm

Edited July 9, 2011 by Worriedman

[DaveTN]

I do not think he intends to try and "pass" anything, knowing that there is not enough support in the House, he intends to try and satisfy his base through Executive Order.

I see noise about background checks and sharing data. I don’t see any suggestions about gun control.

Even the President can’t override the court system.

[Worriedman]

I see noise about background checks and sharing data. I don’t see any suggestions about gun control.

Even the President can’t override the court system.

You see what they want you to see at first blush, I however am waiting for the other shoe to drop. They are telling you to wait and see what he is preparing to put into place sans Congressional approval.

From the articles posted prior:

"That said, there are many steps the president can take on his own authority, without new laws, that could make a very real difference."

If that does not concern you, I do not know what might.

He comes from a land that owes no allegiance to our Constitution, and is not concerned with legalities of any shape form or fashion, most especially those which regard the Right of the citizen to keep and bear arms.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Worriedman

[DaveTN]

He comes from a land that owes no elegance to our Constitution, and is not concerned with legalities of any shape form or fashion, most especially those which regard the Right of the citizen to keep and bear arms.

He’s from Tennessee?

[Worriedman]

[Worriedman]

He’s from Tennessee?

Nice try, but no cigar.

I suppose you could repatriate to your, and his home State, I am sure you enjoyed much broader freedom to bear arms there than you do here. Vote with your feet if you like it so little here. The rest of us will continue to work on our State Legislators to remedy the Carpetbagger forced changes to our original Declaration of Rights.

[DaveTN]

DEA… 16 new positions to specifically to target Mexican trafficking and associated violence.

Four new mobile enforcement teams to specifically target Mexican methamphetamine traffic, both along the border and in U.S. cities impacted by the cartels.

ATF… 37 new employees in three new offices. And redeploying 100 personnel to the southwest border in the next 45 days to fortify its project gunrunner, which is aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the U.S. and Mexico.

ATF is doubling its presence in Mexico from 5 to 9 personnel. Yahooooo….

Those all sound fine to me… did I miss something?

[DaveTN]

Nice try, but no cigar.

I suppose you could repatriate to your, and his home State, I am sure you enjoyed much broader freedom to bear arms there than you do here. Vote with your feet if you like it so little here. The rest of us will continue to work on our State Legislators to remedy the Carpetbagger forced changes to our original Declaration of Rights.

I didn’t say I didn’t like it here; I am a citizen of this state.

Tennessee no more recognizes the right to bear arms than Illinois, California, New York or any of the other gun hating states. It’s a crime for a citizen to carry a gun in Tennessee. If you and your lame azz TFA spent more time dealing with that instead of worrying about Illinois or how you are going to put more money in a Nashville attorneys pocket; maybe you could get something done.

[Worriedman]

I didn’t say I didn’t like it here; I am a citizen of this state.

Tennessee no more recognizes the right to bear arms than Illinois, California, New York or any of the other gun hating states. It’s a crime for a citizen to carry a gun in Tennessee. If you and your lame azz TFA spent more time dealing with that instead of worrying about Illinois or how you are going to put more money in a Nashville attorneys pocket; maybe you could get something done.

I am not an attorney, but I can promise you this, the time spent by myself and the others of the TFA is not compensated for in any way. In our travels to advocate for our Rights, we do not even receive gas money for the trips across the State.

You may consider the efforts put forth by the TFA as lame, but I consider any effort better than none. My time, while you may consider it worthless, is fairly valuable to me, and when I use my vacation days to spend time at the Legislature to entreat to move our laws back to what they ought to be, I consider that as giving SOMETHING to the cause.

I try in discussions to not be personally insulting, just the way I was raised, but I guess the sharecroppers upbringing I had left me lacking in internet protocol.

Evidently I am not as versed in what IS as you, but last time I checked, I get to have my own opinion.

[Worriedman]

DEA… 16 new positions to specifically to target Mexican trafficking and associated violence.

Four new mobile enforcement teams to specifically target Mexican methamphetamine traffic, both along the border and in U.S. cities impacted by the cartels.

ATF… 37 new employees in three new offices. And redeploying 100 personnel to the southwest border in the next 45 days to fortify its project gunrunner, which is aimed at disrupting gun trafficking between the U.S. and Mexico.

ATF is doubling its presence in Mexico from 5 to 9 personnel. Yahooooo….

Those all sound fine to me… did I miss something?

Yeah you did, check the time stamps, then Holder's contention that he is just now finding out about the whole thing.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2714550/posts

Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) asked Holder when first knew about the controversial Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) operation known as "Fast and Furious." Though documents indicate Fast and Furious was started in 2009, Holder told Congress he only learned of it a "few weeks" ago.

Was he lying under oath, or just that stupid?

Edited July 9, 2011 by Worriedman

[Worriedman]

I didn’t say I didn’t like it here; I am a citizen of this state.

Tennessee no more recognizes the right to bear arms than Illinois, California, New York or any of the other gun hating states.

There is no comparison in the laws relative to firearms ownership and carrying between Tennessee and Illinois. Municipalities in TN can not ban the possession of firearms. Citizens here do not need to obtain a FOID card to purchase a weapon, nor do they have to completely unload their weapons and case them to transport them in their private vehicles. We have a "Shall Issue" method of obtaining a permit to carry here, can't say the same for Illinois.

Do I wish we had "Constitutional Carry" in TN, you bet, and am doing my best in my lame azz way to accomplish that by far more effort than sitting on my duff and typing about it.

This year I was invited to a machine gun shoot with over 30 TN Legislators, where we spoke about the path to realizing those goals. Are we there yet, no, but that does not keep me from advocating for it. My involvement with those Legislators won me that invite, writing letters, making calls, knocking on their office doors and speaking to them in person.

I suggest you get some facts before you insult what I do, you have no clue what efforts I have put forth.

[DaveTN]

There is no comparison in the laws relative to firearms ownership and carrying between Tennessee and Illinois. Municipalities in TN can not ban the possession of firearms. Citizens here do not need to obtain a FOID card to purchase a weapon, nor do they have to completely unload their weapons and case them to transport them in their private vehicles. We have a "Shall Issue" method of obtaining a permit to carry here, can't say the same for Illinois.

Do I wish we had "Constitutional Carry" in TN, you bet, and am doing my best in my lame azz way to accomplish that by far more effort than sitting on my duff and typing about it.

This year I was invited to a machine gun shoot with over 30 TN Legislators, where we spoke about the path to realizing those goals. Are we there yet, no, but that does not keep me from advocating for it. My involvement with those Legislators won me that invite, writing letters, making calls, knocking on their office doors and speaking to them in person.

I suggest you get some facts before you insult what I do, you have no clue what efforts I have put forth.

And don’t care.

But before you take a cheap shot at me by insulting where I come from; learn the laws of your own state. Are you from Tennessee? If not how long have you lived here? I seem to know the laws better than you.

It is a crime for a Tennessee citizen to carry a loaded gun in their car; exactly the same as it is in Tennessee. The difference is that Tennessee allows those of us that can afford to take the class and pay for the permit, the luxury of purchasing a carry privilege. Better than banning carry? Absolutely. Acknowledging a Constitutional right? You have got to be kidding me.

“Patron state of shooting stuff†my azz. That had to come from some hillbilly redneck that didn’t know the Constitution from constipation.

Now quit worrying about what Illinois is doing, and taking your childish shots at people from Illinois and start worrying about what is going on in Tennessee. Because after all you are…… Worriedman.

I’m trying you understand the facts of what’s going on and your running around like a little puppet yelling the sky is falling….. get a grip.

[Worriedman]

And don’t care.

But before you take a cheap shot at me by insulting where I come from; learn the laws of your own state. Are you from Tennessee? If not how long have you lived here? I seem to know the laws better than you.

It is a crime for a Tennessee citizen to carry a loaded gun in their car; exactly the same as it is in Tennessee. The difference is that Tennessee allows those of us that can afford to take the class and pay for the permit, the luxury of purchasing a carry privilege. Better than banning carry? Absolutely. Acknowledging a Constitutional right? You have got to be kidding me.

“Patron state of shooting stuff” my azz. That had to come from some hillbilly redneck that didn’t know the Constitution from constipation.

Now quit worrying about what Illinois is doing, and taking your childish shots at people from Illinois and start worrying about what is going on in Tennessee. Because after all you are…… Worriedman.

I’m trying you understand the facts of what’s going on and your running around like a little puppet yelling the sky is falling….. get a grip.

I did not start cheep shots at you, I was intimating originally that the current President was not from this country, the US, but rather from someplace else, notice I did not say State, I said land. He applied to college here as a resident of Indonesia, where he was basically raised after his Kenyan baby daddy tossed him aside. You evidently have a problem with reading comprehension, land does not equate to State.

I also did not insult your State, you insulted mine. And yes, I am a native Tennessean, and damn proud of it. Seems you are the one with the chip on the shoulder. I know some pretty decent redneck hillbillies, a lot of them fired up their chain saws and helped folks that were not their relations clean up after the storms here, just because their neighbors needed help, they may not have had all their teeth, but their hearts are in the right place, so you can stick your insults where the sun don't shine. I know the truth of the matter.

Now, it is NOT a crime to carry a loaded gun in your car, if you have a permit. (Is the need for that permit Constitutional, no, and I did not suggest that Tennessee recognized it as such, but it is a long shot better than being denied the ability. In the end, if I need my handgun, I can have it to use, legally which is NOT the case in IL.) If you do have your permit, you can carry your long gun with ammunition in the magazine, your handgun loaded locked and cocked. If you do not have a permit, you can carry the long gun or handgun and ammo in the same compartment, does not have to be locked up, or separated. Big difference than in Illinois.

I am pretty sure I get it regarding the President and the trash he has surrounded himself with re firearms issues. Being alive and able to read will handle most of that. Seeing the steps taking place now in his attempt to woo his base, (the Left) back into loving him again is about the only transparent thing he has done, or is doing. His Attorney General is either stupid, a liar or both. His speech in CUERNAVACA, MEXICO Thursday, April 2, 2009 gives proof to that:

Welcome to the United States Department of Justice

Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.

Talk about lame azz, in his under oath testimony before Issa's committee in March, he said he had just recently been made aware of the program, HE made that speech in 2009, so I would assume he knew about his own program that he touted.

I am not "running around like a little puppet yelling the sky is falling", I am posting information I consider to be pertinent to the discussion, when I exceed what I should be doing here, I am sure a moderator will tune me up, their job, not yours.

And I am worried about my children and grandchildren, and what kind of State and Nation they will have to grow up in. I will continue to do my best to correct the decencies in our State Constitution, I will do proactive things, meet with Legislators, speak to various groups on the things I consider to be important.

[Worriedman]

43 weapons in Phoenix traffic stop linked to ATF strategy

ATF has a watch list out, and 43 weapons that match the numbers show up in AZ, being transported by illegal immigrant drug runners.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

It is encouraging that a local ABC affiliate seems to be following the story anyway, and seems to have the facts of the situation in good grasp. Maybe there will be more general news coverage as the thing becomes ever more stinky.

[Worriedman]

Allen West | Eric Holder | Operation Fast and Furious | The Daily Caller

“This is just another sad chapter in the Eric Holder book of ineptness and incompetence,†West said.

We need more Representatives and Seantors to make the same demand!

[Worriedman]

This might just be the breach that opens up the dam. Holder can be compelled to give testimony, and with the scrutiny that has been focused and the facts put forth, his time in the witness chair could be very uncomfortable.

Family of Murdered Border Patrol Agent Considering Suing Feds Over 'Fast and Furious' - FoxNews.com

Agent Terry murder: Family plans to sue feds but not for money - Arizona Tea Party Network

[G27]

This might just be the breach that opens up the dam. Holder can be compelled to give testimony, and with the scrutiny that has been focused and the facts put forth, his time in the witness chair could be very uncomfortable.

Family of Murdered Border Patrol Agent Considering Suing Feds Over 'Fast and Furious' - FoxNews.com

Agent Terry murder: Family plans to sue feds but not for money - Arizona Tea Party Network

Great news, I sure hope they move forward with this!

[DaveTN]

If there is a settlement (or a case dismissal); no one testifies about anything. </SPAN>