Is ‘Project Gunwalker’ about to bust wide open?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hey Lester.

I don't remember the timeline that well,

but Saddam or one of his minions(son or brother)

used gas on the Kurds didn't he? I think that was

media induced bull**** concerning WMD's. There

was also a story about Yellow cake uranium in the

country. Don't know much more than that, but the

Dems struck up the band and apparently got the

public believing there were no WMD's when the

truth may have redefined into a lie. I'm not saying

Bush was a saint for the whole eight years of his

term, but I do think he was justified using the claim

of suspicion of WMD's. Now, as far as Clinton in a

conspiratorial mode, I wouldn't characterize using

his "other" brain to take a bunch of favors from

Ms. Lewinski as much of one as I would consider

Hillary being the conspiratorial part of the marriage.

Shredding documents, allegedly involved in deaths

surrounding Whitewatergate, etc. If any of the stuff

written about her is true, I'd compare her to Manson.

Thanks 6.8 AR

Maybe there has never been a president who didn't kill lots more people than manson?

Maybe there wasn't much point to my thinking, but I was not trying to judge the "evilness" of conspiracies, or to judge whether the Iraq WMD was honest mistake versus botched conspiracy. Some people think Iraq WMD was a 10 year duration honest mistake in intelligence and some think it was a neocon con job. I dunno one way or t'other.

Was just thinking that IF it was a conspiracy then one would expect that people smart enough to win the white house ought to be smart enough to run a better conspiracy? Seems to lend credence to the "10 year long honest mistake" theory. If Cheney and Bush didn't expect to find SIGNIFICANT amounts of WMD and were lying their butts off before the invasion, then surely they would have been smart enough to fake WMDs after the invasion? At least do a good job of the conspiracy?

Another possibility is that they didn't expect to find WMDs but they actually expected Iraq to be a cakewalk? That they didn't worry about lack of WMDs because they expected Iraq to be easily pacified? Quick, easy and cheap with little loss of life? That Iraq would be such an instant success story that critics would forgive and forget the lack of WMDs? If that was the plan then it truly would be a probability zero legendary stupid plan rivaling Helter Skelter.

In a similar way was trying to judge the "dumb-ness" of fast and furious. If it was merely an honest attempt to catch smugglers, and they really thought it would work, then it is pretty dumb. But if it was a plot to justify draconian USA gun laws-- If they believed it would work and that they could get away with it-- Then that seems even-more-dumber!

Ain't sayin I could do better. But I expect the leaders to be smarter than me. They are sposed to be competent at that thar governing stuff!

[ttocswob]

Was just thinking that IF it was a conspiracy then one would expect that people smart enough to win the white house ought to be smart enough to run a better conspiracy?

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link - and that link, IMO, was the ATF. This has so far unraveled to implicate the FBI, DEA ICE, BP, U.S. Attorneys, DHS, DOJ, and is nipping at the heels of Hillary and the State Department.

Nah, no conspiracy there.

[QuietDan]

Here's a report that says the Department of Justice is thinking about getting rid of the ATF:

Bombshell: DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF - Katie Pavlich - Townhall Conservative

[Guest Lester Weevils]

IIRC, the prosecutor in the Manson case had serious reservations about going before a jury with an unprecedented and almost unbelievable conspiracy theory, even with strong evidence.

The various investigators of gunwalker have a similar hurdle to overcome in the court of public opinion - most of whom remain blissfully ignorant of the whole sordid mess. Rep. Issa may have had this in mind when he coined the term "felony stupid."

It's clear that Rep. Issa and Sen. Grassley have a strategy for the investigation; as the fact they held the "coverup email" until an appropriate time tends to confirm. The next hearings will include the House Judiciary committee as well as Oversight and Government reform.

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link - and that link, IMO, was the ATF. This has so far unraveled to implicate the FBI, DEA ICE, BP, U.S. Attorneys, DHS, DOJ, and is nipping at the heels of Hillary and the State Department.

Nah, no conspiracy there.

Thanks ttocswob. Good evaluations. I agree with OS that a deep throat would come in handy. As you say, maybe the biggest problem prosecuting a conspiracy would be that it would sound too unbelievably stupid? Guess watergate was pretty stupid as well.

The ultimate reason watergate brought down Nixon is because eventually republican congresscritters turned on him? Dunno if the R congresscritters "didn't want to believe it" and then turned against Nixon when convinced by irrefutable evidence? Or perhaps they believed it all along but at some point they decided that the jig is up and Nixon had to take one for the team?

If the republicans had circled the wagons "our side right or wrong" then an impeachment may have not succeeded. Things might have got tough and caused even more national dissent?

Wonder if such unity could happen again? It was polarized politics over principle both sides on the monica perjury thang.

The only way an action could happen against the O admin would be that either a few democrat congrescritters act with integrity, or alternately decide that O has to "take one for the team" for the greater future socialistic benefit?

[ttocswob]

Thanx to you also, Lester. As for 'Deep Throat' Kevin O'Rielly was sent to Iraq and is unavailable for comment; I also read a little while ago that Dan Repesto is similarly unavailable. The administration is in full CYA mode.

[G27]

Try to act surprised: ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

[Oh Shoot]

We need an Archibald Cox type special prosecutor.

Getting closer to the top. Throw in Solyndra et. al. also.

Bad news: if O is forced to resign before the election, we'll get Hildebeeste.

- OS

[ttocswob]

Nothing like a little perjury to liven things up!

Sharyl Attkisson of CBS was on Laura Ingraham's show and reports getting yelled at by Tracy somebody at DOJ, and screamed at by Eric Schultz of the White House. Audio link at Sipsey Street - worth your 10 minutes, IMO.

Edited October 4, 2011 by ttocswob
direct link

[QuietDan]

Regarding alleged lies by Attorney General Holder and a call for a Special Counsel by the House Judiciary Committee:

The Ulsterman Report – House Judiciary Letter Requesting Special Counsel Investigate Obama Attorney General Eric Holder - The Ulsterman Report

and here's a related report:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/04/house-republicans-to-request-special-counsel-to-probe-holder-on-fast-and/

Edited October 5, 2011 by QuietDan

[QuietDan]

Suggestions that a reporter on the "Fast and Furious" beat is being muzzled by the White House placing pressure on her organization:

Is CBS News Silencing Fast and Furious Reporter? | The Weekly Standard

[QuietDan]

Obama: 'Complete confidence' in Holder - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Obama expresses "complete confidence" in Holder.

The Kiss of Death!

AG Holder's reign is almost at an end.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Throw him under the bus! I'm guessing he will.

Sheryl Atkinson (sp?) has done some good reporting. I imagine CBS will

cave, since they're part of the Obama media corp.

[creeky]

Obama expresses "complete confidence" in Holder.

Translation... "I talked to him, he doesn't like it... but he is going to have to take one for the team. We're already looking for one of our donors to make a place for him so he will keep his mouth shut."

[94user]

More guns found in Mexico.

Fast and Furious weapons found in Mexico cartel enforcer's home - latimes.com

[QuietDan]

It's all starting to follow the Watergate scenario:

House Committee To Subpoena Holder In 'Fast And Furious' Probe | Fox News

This is not the end, it is not even the beginning of the end, it is, however, the end of the beginning. (Apologies to Winston Churchill)

[Chucktshoes]

Issa just set Holder on fire. He isn't going to be holding that job for very much longer. This letter to Atty. General Holder was released by Congressman Issa's office. Thanks to Sipsey Street Irregulars: Holder Ridge Defenses Overrun. Holder isolated in his bunker, awaiting the coup de grâce. "Feldmarschall Holder ist kaput!" for the transcript.

Dear Attorney General Holder:

From the beginning of the congressional investigation into Operation Fast and Furious, the Department of Justice has offered a roving set of ever-changing explanations to justify its involvement in this reckless and deadly program. These defenses have been aimed at undermining the investigation. From the start, the Department insisted that no wrongdoing had occurred and asked Senator Grassley and me to defer our oversight responsibilities over its concerns about our purported interference with its ongoing criminal investigations. Additionally, the Department steadfastly insisted that gunwalking did not occur.

Once documentary and testimonial evidence strongly contradicted these claims, the Department attempted to limit the fallout from Fast and Furious to the Phoenix Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). When that effort also proved unsuccessful, the Department next argued that Fast and Furious resided only within ATF itself, before eventually also assigning blame to the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona. All of these efforts were designed to circle the wagons around DOJ and its political appointees.

To that end, just last month, you claimed that Fast and Furious did not reach the upper levels of the Justice Department. Documents discovered through the course of the investigation, however, have proved each and every one of these claims advanced by the Department to be untrue. It appears your latest defense has reached a new low. Incredibly, in your letter from Friday you now claim that you were unaware of Fast and Furious because your staff failed to inform you of information contained in memos that were specifically addressed to you. At best, this indicates negligence and incompetence in your duties as Attorney General. At worst, it places your credibility into serious doubt.

Following the Committee’s issuance of a subpoena over six months ago, I strongly believed that the Department would fully cooperate with Congress and support this investigation with all the means at its disposal. The American people deserve no less. Unfortunately, the Department’s cooperation to date has been minimal. Hundreds of pages of documents that have been produced to my Committee are duplicative, and hundreds more contain substantial redactions, rendering them virtually worthless. The Department has actively engaged in retaliation against multiple whistleblowers, and has, on numerous occasions, attempted to disseminate false and misleading information to the press in an attempt to discredit this investigation.

Your letter dated October 7 is deeply disappointing. Instead of pledging all necessary resources to assist the congressional investigation in discovering the truth behind the fundamentally flawed Operation Fast and Furious, your letter instead did little but obfuscate, shift blame, berate, and attempt to change the topic away from the Department’s responsibility in the creation, implementation, and authorization of this reckless program. You claim that, after months of silence, you “must now address these issues” over Fast and Furious because of the harmful discourse of the past few days. Yet, the only major development of these past few days has been the release of multiple documents showing that you and your senior staff had been briefed, on numerous occasions, about Fast and Furious.

The Mexican Cartels

A month after you became Attorney General, you spoke of the danger of the Mexican drug cartels, and the Sinaloa cartel in particular. The cartels, you said, “are lucrative, they are violent, and they are operated with stunning planning and precision.” You promised that under your leadership “these cartels will be destroyed.” You vowed that the Department of Justice would “continue to work with [its] counterparts in Mexico, through information sharing, training and mutual cooperation to jointly fight these cartels, both in Mexico and the United States.”

Under your leadership, however, Operation Fast and Furious has proven these promises hollow. According to one agent, Operation Fast and Furious “armed the cartel. It is disgusting.” Fast and Furious simply served as a convenient means for dangerous cartels to acquire upwards of 2,000 assault-style weapons. On top of that, the Government of Mexico was not informed about Fast and Furious. In fact, DOJ and ATF officials actively engaged in hiding information about Fast and Furious from not only Mexican officials, but also U.S. law enforcement officials operating in Mexico for fear that they would inform their Mexican counterparts. This strategy is inapposite and contradicts the promises you made to the American people.

Your September 7, 2011 Statement

On September 7, 2011, you said that “[t]he notion that [Fast and Furious] reaches into the upper levels of the Justice Department is something that at this point I don't think is supported by the facts and I think once we examine it and once the facts are revealed we'll see that's not the case.” Unfortunately, the facts directly contradict this statement.

Lanny Breuer, the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, clearly a member of the Department’s senior leadership, knew about Fast and Furious as early as March 2010. In fact, I have learned that the amount of detail shared with Breuer’s top deputies about Fast and Furious is simply astounding.

For example, Manuel Celis-Acosta was the “biggest fish” of the straw purchasing ring in Phoenix. From the time the investigation started in September 2009 until March 15, 2010, Manuel Celis-Acosta acquired at least 852 firearms valued at around $500,000 through straw purchasers. Yet in 2009, Celis-Acosta reported an Arizona taxable income of only $15,475. Between September 2009 and late January 2010, 139 of these firearms were recovered, 81 in Mexico alone. Some of these firearms were recovered less than 24 hours after they were bought.

This information, and hundreds of pages worth of additional information, was included in highly detailed wiretap applications sent for authorization to Breuer’s top deputies. It is my understanding, the Department applied to the United States District Court for the District of Arizona for numerous wire taps from March 2010 to July 2010. These wire tap applications were reviewed and approved by several Deputy Assistant Attorney Generals, including Kenneth A. Blanco, John C. Keeney, and Jason M. Weinstein. Breuer’s top deputies approved these wiretap applications to be used against individuals associated with the known drug cartels. As I understand it, the wire tap applications contain rich detail of the reckless operational tactics being employed by your agents in Phoenix. Although Breuer and his top deputies were informed of the operational details and tactics of Fast and Furious, they did nothing to stop the program. In fact, on a trip to Mexico Breuer trumpeted Fast and Furious as a promising investigation.

Gary Grindler, the then-Deputy Attorney General and currently your Chief of Staff, received an extremely detailed briefing on Operation Fast and Furious on March 12, 2010. In this briefing, Grindler learned such minutiae as the number of times that Uriel Patino, a straw purchaser on food stamps who ultimately acquired 720 firearms, went in to a cooperating gun store and the amount of guns that he had bought. When former Acting ATF Director Ken Melson, a career federal prosecutor, learned similar information, he became sick to his stomach:

I had pulled out all Patino's -- and ROIs is, I'm sorry, report of investigation -- and you know, my stomach being in knots reading the number of times he went in and the amount of guns that he bought. Transcribed interview of Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson at 42.

At the time of his briefing in March of last year, Grindler knew that Patino had purchased 313 weapons and paid for all of them in cash. Unlike Melson, Grindler clearly saw nothing wrong with this. If Grindler had had the sense to shut this investigation down right then, he could have prevented the purchase of an additional 407 weapons by Patino alone. Instead, Grindler did nothing to stop the program.

Following this briefing, it is clear that Grindler did one of two things. Either, he alerted you to the name and operational details of Fast and Furious, in which case your May 3, 2011 testimony in front of Congress was false; or, he failed to inform you of the name and the operational details of Fast and Furious, in which case Grindler engaged in gross dereliction of his duties as Acting Deputy Attorney General. It is fair to infer from the fact that Grindler remains as your Chief of Staff that he did not engage in gross dereliction of his duties and told you about the program as far back as March of 2010.

In the summer of 2010, at the latest, you were undoubtedly informed about Fast and Furious. On at least five occasions you were told of the connection between Fast and Furious and a specific Mexican cartel – the very cartel that you had vowed to destroy. You were informed that Manuel Celis-Acosta and his straw purchasers were responsible for the purchase of 1,500 firearms that were then supplied to Mexican drug trafficking cartels. Yet, you did nothing to stop this program.

You failed to own up to your responsibility to safeguard the American public by hiding behind “[a]ttorneys in [your] office and the Office of the Deputy Attorney General,” who you now claim did not bring this information to your attention. Holder Letter, supra note 1. As a result of your failure to act on these memos sent to you, nearly 500 additional firearms were purchased under Fast and Furious.

The facts simply do not support any claim that Fast and Furious did not reach the highest levels of the Justice Department. Actually, Fast and Furious did reach the ultimate authority in the Department – you.

Your May 3, 2011 Statement

On May 3, 2011, I asked you directly when you first knew about the operation known as Fast and Furious. You responded directly, and to the point, that you weren’t “sure of the exact date, but [you] probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.” This statement, made before Congress, has proven to be patently untrue. Documents released by the Department just last week showed that you received at least seven memos about Fast and Furious starting as early as July 2010.

In your letter Friday, you blamed your staff for failing to inform you about Operation Fast and Furious when they reviewed the memos sent to you last summer. Your staff, therefore, was certainly aware of Fast and Furious over a year ago. Lanny Breuer was aware of Fast and Furious as early as March 2010, and Gary Grindler was also aware of Fast and Furious as early as March 2010. Given this frequency of high level involvement with Fast and Furious as much as a year prior to your May 3, 2011 testimony, it simply is not believable that you were not briefed on Fast and Furious until a few weeks before your testimony. At the very least, you should have known about Fast and Furious well before then. The current paper trail, which will only grow more robust as additional documents are discovered, creates the strong perception that your statement in front of Congress was less than truthful.

The February 4, 2011 Letter

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this intransigence is that the Department of Justice has been lying to Congress ever since the inquiry into Fast and Furious began. On February 4, 2011, Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote that “ATF makes every effort to interdict weapons that have been purchased illegally and prevent their transport into Mexico.” This letter, vetted by both the senior ranks of ATF as well as the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, is a flat-out lie.

As we understand it, in March 2010, top deputies to Lanny Breuer were informed that law enforcement officers intercepted calls that demonstrated that Manuel Celis-Acosta was conspiring to purchase and transport firearms for the purpose of trafficking the firearms from the United States into Mexico. Not only was ATF aware of this information, but so was the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. This information was shared with the Criminal Division. All of these organizations are components of the Department of Justice, and they were all aware of the illegal purchase of firearms and their eventual transportation into Mexico.

These firearms were not interdicted. They were not stopped. Your agents allowed these firearms purchases to continue, sometimes even monitoring them in person, and within days some of these weapons were being recovered in Mexico. Despite widespread knowledge within its senior ranks that this practice was occurring, when asked on numerous occasions about the veracity of this letter, the Department has shockingly continued to stand by its false statement of February 4, 2011.

Mr. Attorney General, you have made numerous statements about Fast and Furious that have eventually been proven to be untrue. Your lack of trustworthiness while speaking about Fast and Furious has called into question your overall credibility as Attorney General. The time for deflecting blame and obstructing our investigation is over. The time has come for you to come clean to the American public about what you knew about Fast and Furious, when you knew it, and who is going to be held accountable for failing to shut down a program that has already had deadly consequences, and will likely cause more casualties for years to come.

Operation Fast and Furious was the Department’s most significant gun trafficking case. It related to two of your major initiatives – destroying the Mexican cartels and reducing gun violence on both sides of the border. On your watch, it went spectacularly wrong. Whether you realize yet or not, you own Fast and Furious. It is your responsibility.

Sincerely,

Darrell Issa

Chairman

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Now, that's an interesting read!

[QuietDan]

I'd rather you all see this twice, instead of not at all. Have not seen a previous post:

Issa to Holder: “You Own Fast and Furious.”

Congressman Issa reading ag holder the riot act.

Issa to Holder:

[ttocswob]

Holder had better stay out of Ft. Marcy Park...under the bus is better than under the grass.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Someone else remembers that park:D

[Worriedman]

The plot thickens...

Breaking: new evidence shows Hillary a mastermind behind Gunwalker - National Conservative | Examiner.com

[DaveTN]

The plot thickens...

Breaking: new evidence shows Hillary a mastermind behind Gunwalker - National Conservative | Examiner.com

I’ve said that on here all along. She made stupid statements about how 80% of the guns used in crimes in Mexico came from the U.S.

I still don’t buy most of this. That picture at the home of Ciudad Juarez was a little to convenient and looked staged. No one was there?

Most of the guns in that picture appear to be AK’s. AK’s are not made here. And why would drug cartels pay high prices for neutered AK’s bought here in gun stores when they could buy the real deal from other sources?

I think the only thing driving this now is the fact some many gun owners will jump on any hint of the ATF doing something wrong and see it as a way to get some of them fired. It causes them to lose perspective.

It apperas they (The White House) may be preparing Holder to be the sacrificial lamb in this. However, I still think this will just be a lot noise unless they need someone to fall on their sword to protect Hillary or Obama.

[Defender]

I want this to bust wide open and hope it goes all the way to the top!

[QuietDan]

Here it comes!

Congressional Investigators To Subpoena Holder In Fast And Furious Probe | Fox News

Congressional investigators probing the failed anti-gunrunning operation Fast and Furious are sending a new subpoena to Attorney General Eric Holder -- seeking communications from about a dozen top Justice Department officials, including Holder; his chief of staff, Gary Grindler; and the head of the department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, Fox News has learned.

The subpoena, which could be filed as early as Tuesday, will focus on the Justice Department. The first and only subpoena issued so far dealt with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. That subpoena was issued back in March.

In the new subpoena, congressional investigators will apparently demand information regarding the investigation into the death of U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry. Two guns found at Terry's crime scene were linked to the failed operation that allowed more than 2,000 weapons to "walk."

The subpoena is expected to ask for correspondence that Justice Department officials had with the White House about the gun trafficking operation, as well as what information was shared by Justice officials in Mexico.

The new subpoena follows a week of back and forth between congressional investigators and Justice Department officials of "who knew what, when." Under scrutiny was Holder's testimony from May 3 when he told Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., that he "probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks."

Fox News obtained documents addressed to Holder as early as nine months before that, which described the concept of Operation Fast and Furious.

On Friday, Holder sent a letter to congressional investigators stating that he does not read every document addressed to him and that they are reviewed by members of his staff. Holder went on to say that none of the reports mentioned the controversial tactics used in Fast and Furious.

On Monday, Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, which is investigating the scandal, replied to Holder in a letter saying, "Operation Fast and Furious was the department's most significant gun trafficking case. Whether you realize yet or not, you own Fast and Furious. It is your responsibility.”

Issa told "Fox News Sunday" that he was going to issue the subpoena to find out why the top Justice officials are "denying knowing about something that they were briefed on?"

"We want to know what and when they knew it," he said. "But more importantly, we have to understand -- at what level of the authorization really come? It wasn't an ATF operation. They were part of that. It was a joint operation in which DEA knew more than ATF."

In addition to the congressional investigation being led by Issa and Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, R-Texas, is calling for a special counsel to look into the matter.

Edited October 11, 2011 by QuietDan

[ttocswob]

"Gunwalking" subpoena for AG Holder imminent

Per Sharyl Attkisson, CBS - as early as today. Will call out more than a dozen senior DOJ officials by name, and seek all communications relevant to the scandal.

Rush mentioned this on the air a few moments ago.

Edited October 11, 2011 by ttocswob
rush