Long range semi auto suggestions needed

[nolo]

I was at the last gun show in Knoxville and got the bug for another rifle. I am in the market for something that will shoot accurately out to 500 yards. Any recommendations? I currently have an AR. I was thinking about getting a match grade 24-26" upper for it. Or the second option I am looking at is going with a M1a.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to the best AR barrel? Or should I just sell an AR and go with the M1a platform.

[Guest FastMover]

If you're proficient with the AR platform then I'd suggest sticking with it. Why not try a different flavor load? 6.5 Grendel or a .264 LBC would be a great long range AR.

[nolo]

Can you use the same lower receiver, or do you have to get a new lower for those loads?

[Guest FastMover]

Nope. You can use the same lower you have. Just swap out uppers.

[Guest FastMover]

Here's a comparo. btw a .308, 6.5 Grendel, and .556

[1gewehr]

What do you mean by 'accurately'? Are you looking for Match-winning accuracy? Deer or elk-hunting accuracy? Also, caliber is going to have a huge impact on rifle choice. In .308 you have a good variety of choices useful out to 500 yards, M1A, DPMS, Armalite, Remington, Saiga, CETME, FAL, and others. For just 500 yards and hitting a 10" paper plate, those are all viable choices. for such a short range, a longer barrel doesn't gain you anything. The main reason for having a long barrel is to gain the most velocity in order to keep the projectile supersonic as long as possible. Even 7.62NATO surplus ammo will stay supersonic out of a 18" CETME barrel past 800 yards.

For the AR platform, a lot of people are singing the praises of the 6.5 Grendel. With the inexpensive Wolf Gold ammo becoming available, you can even shoot loaded factory ammo for under $.75/round. That cartridge is supposed to stay supersonic out past 1000 yards and there are some excellent bullet choices in 6.5mm. You can buy or build a 6.5 Grendel upper to use on you current AR lower receiver.

[bigwakes]

From Sniper Central - Mel's Sniper Page here is a ballistics comparison.

.308

Hornady 168 A-MAX .308 muzzle of 2780fps energy 2884 at 1000 yards velocity 1234 energy 568 drop 409 and deflection 99.9 BC of .475

6.5 Grendel

Hornady 140 A-MAX 6.5 muzzle 2810fps energy 2454 at 1000 yards velocity 1398 energy 608 drop 361 deflection 80.3 BC of .550

Looks like the Grendel would be a decent replacement if you already have a lower. But, Grendel uppers are in the $950 range at Midway and an M1a can be had for around $1100-1200, so it might be a wash by the time you factor in ammo prices /availability.

Edited January 18, 2011 by bigwakes

[peejman]

If you're just plinking, have a look at the .204 Ruger. A friend got a 24" fluted SS bull barrel upper that shoots quite well. It uses the same lower and mags as .223.

[tnhawk]

The Springfield M1A would be my choice for long range. My AR is fine at mid range, but 300 and beyond I prefer the M1A.

[nolo]

I don't think I want to go the 6.5 route. It is really between staying with the .223 or selling it to get a M1a.

How does just dropping the 6.5 upper onto a .223 lower work? I would think it would take a little tuning to get it to function correctly.

[Guest BungieCord]

Have you ever field stripped an AR? I'm guessing not because, if you had, you should have seen how the components of the two halves of the weapon interact.

There are exactly two (2) interactions between the upper and the lower during the firing sequence:

1. When released, the hammer (housed in the lower) strikes the firing pin (housed in the upper).

2. When the ducted exhaust gasses drive the bolt carrier group (housed in the upper) out of battery, it pushes the hammer (housed in the lower) rearward and downward, out of its path, until the hammer engages the sear, leaving it in the "cocked" position.

That's it. That's absolutely everything that takes place between the two halves when you fire the weapon. And neither of those operations requires a great deal of precision. Any operation that does require a measure of precision takes place entirely within one half or the other.

An AR in 6.5 Grendel (...or 6.5 Creedmore ...or 260 Rem) is a mild-recoiling weapon capable of astonishing accuracy to 1000 meters and beyond.

[JeffL]

Larue Stealth upper and some 77gr SMKs.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

From Sniper Central - Mel's Sniper Page here is a ballistics comparison.

.308

Hornady 168 A-MAX .308 muzzle of 2780fps energy 2884 at 1000 yards velocity 1234 energy 568 drop 409 and deflection 99.9 BC of .475

6.5 Grendel

Hornady 140 A-MAX 6.5 muzzle 2810fps energy 2454 at 1000 yards velocity 1398 energy 608 drop 361 deflection 80.3 BC of .550

Looks like the Grendel would be a decent replacement if you already have a lower. But, Grendel uppers are in the $950 range at Midway and an M1a can be had for around $1100-1200, so it might be a wash by the time you factor in ammo prices /availability.

Yeah.. at what temp was that? Summer temps.. not winter temps..

I don't think I want to go the 6.5 route. It is really between staying with the .223 or selling it to get a M1a.

How does just dropping the 6.5 upper onto a .223 lower work? I would think it would take a little tuning to get it to function correctly.

It is so much easier to get the AR to shoot sub MOA then that M1A.. M1A's take a lot of work to get them to shoot consistantly sub MOA...

The Grendel is a good round.. but really.. the 123gr class of bullets is the better choice for that round.. and when it comes to tunning, no you won't have to tune anything if you have the right smith put the upper together for you.

[ukerduker]

Nolo-

I own both .223 AR's and a Grendel. It's just a simple swap of the upper receiver and a new Grendel magazine, and you are in business. As some have stated, this is a great round to get you to 500yds and beyond. I'm currently shooting within a half-dollar at 300yds consistently. At 200yds, I am almost driving the rounds through the same hole.

The only downside to the Grendel round (IMO) is the availability of ammunition. At times it can be scarce or expensive. At times there can be a considerable backorder wait time. This is why I am currently reloading this caliber to avoid the "unavailability issue".

If you have any Grendel specific questions, just ask.

[nolo]

Nolo-

I own both .223 AR's and a Grendel. It's just a simple swap of the upper receiver and a new Grendel magazine, and you are in business. As some have stated, this is a great round to get you to 500yds and beyond. I'm currently shooting within a half-dollar at 300yds consistently. At 200yds, I am almost driving the rounds through the same hole.

The only downside to the Grendel round (IMO) is the availability of ammunition. At times it can be scarce or expensive. At times there can be a considerable backorder wait time. This is why I am currently reloading this caliber to avoid the "unavailability issue".

If you have any Grendel specific questions, just ask.

Thanks. What brand upper did you go with, and what length is the barrel? Which scope do you use?

[East_TN_Patriot]

If 500 yds is your goal, you can stick with a standard AR15 and put a match barrel in it along with a match trigger. You'll need a 1:7 barrel and shoot heavier .223 loads to be accurate at that range, but service rifle competition shooters use the AR in .223.

Sent from my SPH-M900 using Tapatalk

[ukerduker]

Thanks. What brand upper did you go with, and what length is the barrel? Which scope do you use?

Mine started out as a Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel Overwatch upper receiver.

- I installed a new (24") 6.5 Grendel barrel (with a smaller gas block diameter), new Troy rail, and Adams Arms gas piston kit.

- The optic is a Leupold Mark IV 4.5x14x50mm LRT with a Larue one piece mount.

- The lower started out with a Spikes Tactical (stripped ). I added a DPMS LPK. I'm still trying to make up my mind on what trigger group to upgrade to.

- I added the Magpul PRS stock, MIAD grip with the extra firing pin and bolt carrier, and a mono pod.

- The can is the Freedom model from www.libertycans.net. This was originally designed to be a 7.62mm can, but they custom made mine in 6.5mm.

It took some time and headaches to get this all together, but it has been worth it.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Nice looking setup UkerDuker...how do you like the Adams Arms piston conversion so far?

[ukerduker]

Nice looking setup UkerDuker...how do you like the Adams Arms piston conversion so far?

I like it. It's so nice to have a clean bolt carrier after shooting all day. Wipe it down, lube it up, and your back in business!

I was concerned that the Grendel would be too much for the piston kit, but so far it has worked perfectly. I had to modify/machine my rail to allow room for the carrier actuating rod movement. It took some time and gave me some headaches but it has been worth it. I would recommend this kit to anyone wanting to upgrade to a gas piston upper.

[RWF]

have you looked at white oak, they do mostly high power type AR's and uppers and barrels.

[mikegideon]

have you looked at white oak, they do mostly high power type AR's and uppers and barrels.

White Oak has a lead time, but they know what they're doing. Froggy turned me on to them when I was building my long range AR. I was too impatient to wait for the upper.