questions on carrying a baton

[Guest friesepferd]

I am aware that in TN, you must take a class and carry a certification card with you in order to carry a baton. I am also aware that using it is considered using deadly force, and so the laws apply like a pistol (I would never use it if I wasn't afraif for my life anyways, so thats not an issue).

However, I am interested in the laws about where I can carry one.

From what I reason, you can carry a baton into an establishment that is banned from guns, especially as the ghost busters sign only applies to whats in it- ei. a legal no guns sign only applies to guns.

I am looking for a defensive weapon that I can pretty much carry anywhere I go without having to worry about it, as well as a secondary backup weapon along with my knife.

Am I correct in my assumption about laws reguarding carrying a baton?

Do you think its a decent idea?

Does anyone have experiance with batons? Which one would you suggest? I'm not too worried about concealability, as people aren't going to gauk and scream as much about a OWB holser for a baton like a gun, but I wouldnt want anything bulky or annoying to carry- would certainly want it extendable.

Also, does anyone know how legal it is to carry in nearby states?

Edited January 17, 2011 by friesepferd

[bigwakes]

It is not considered lethal force unless you strike to lethal parts of the body like the head or sternum. I have never seen an ASP buster sign. I recently went with a few others from TGO to get certified. I couldn't find any information on carrying in Arkansas so I left it at home. I have yet to find some sort of reciprocity list. Batons are used by security guards as a non lethal option and seem to be a better idea than not having anything when you enter non gun friendly places.

[Guest friesepferd]

It seems that there is no 'receprocity' because the large majority of states require no permits.

I wonder if there is a good website out there that lists which states require permits to carry a baton.

[Punisher84]

Some states cover batons under their permits. I think KY is one, not positive though. I'll be blunt though, I think carrying an ASP is a waste of time and could potentially screw you up legally. I carry one at work, but I've never used it on anything other than a window. Unless you really know what you're doing and practice with it alot you are going to either be ineffective with it, get it taken away from you, or overkill it and mess someone up beyond what you legally should have. They also suck in tight spaces and take alot to bring into action, especially if you're concealing it.

My advice is get some self-defense training and a can of good pepper spray for where you can't carry a gun. Leave the baton alone.

[leroy]

Punisher:

RE:

...My advice is get some self-defense training and a can of good pepper spray for where you can't carry a gun. Leave the baton alone. ..

I like this advice. What pepper spray do you like?

Thanks,

leroy

[Guest friesepferd]

does anyone know if the law which prohibits guns in universities also prohibits batons?

I'm all for pepper spray as well by the way; theres no harm in carrying all three

I just dont like the idea of ONLY carrying pepper spray.

[Punisher84]

Punisher:

RE:

I like this advice. What pepper spray do you like?

Thanks,

leroy

We are issued Freeze +P at work, which is fine, but I love Fox Labs.

does anyone know if the law which prohibits guns in universities also prohibits batons?

I'm all for pepper spray as well by the way; theres no harm in carrying all three

I just dont like the idea of ONLY carrying pepper spray.

Yea you get caught with an expandable baton on campus you are going to have some explaining to do. That little training card you get isn't a sure thing either. Alot of the pseudo-lawyers here (no disrespect guys, but we all know what we are and aren't) say "it's a defense the same as the HCP", but I know plenty of LEOs who have said they would most likely charge someone carrying one if they weren't security or something that required them to have it as part of their job. So take that for what it's worth.

I don't know your background so try not to take this personal, but sounds to me like you are over thinking things. It's fine to want to be prepared, but you are gonna need a damn duty belt to carry all that crap around. You're not a cop, you're not a security officer, and carrying all that crap around makes you look like a wannabe who doesn't know what to do with all the stuff he's carrying around. Same as people who pack a go-bag with 50 pounds of crap they don't know how to use. You'll do what you want to do, but I'm telling you from experience get some spray, learn to defend yourself, carry your gun when you can, and leave the magical expanding stick at home.

[Oh Shoot]

does anyone know if the law which prohibits guns in universities also prohibits batons?...

Says "...leaded cane ... blackjack...or any other weapon of like kind..."

So I'd venture that a court would see baton as "like kind".

- OS

[Fallguy]

Says "...leaded cane ... blackjack...or any other weapon of like kind..."

So I'd venture that a court would see baton as "like kind".

- OS

+1

Baton in school = illegal.

[leroy]

Thanks Punisher! I appreciate it!

We are issued Freeze +P at work, which is fine, but I love Fox Labs.

Keep up the good work.

leroy

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Yea you get caught with an expandable baton on campus you are going to have some explaining to do. That little training card you get isn't a sure thing either. Alot of the pseudo-lawyers here (no disrespect guys, but we all know what we are and aren't) say "it's a defense the same as the HCP", but I know plenty of LEOs who have said they would most likely charge someone carrying one if they weren't security or something that required them to have it as part of their job. So take that for what it's worth.

I am "certified to carry a club/baton". While there may well be LEOs who would charge someone, all that means is that you get charged. People get charged with stuff EVERYDAY and walk within hours of their attorney being called. For that matter I know of cops threatening to charge people for open carrying....so even cops do not always know what the law really is....

The odds are overwhelming that if you do not go around being a jack ass no one will ever know you have it anyway...remember, people generally do not get arrested for carrying weapons illegally...they get arrested for being a jackass (public drunkeness or something) and the cops FIND the illegally carried weapons on them. Concealed means concealed.And common sense always applies.

Having said that,even though I am certified to do so, I do not carry a baton. They are more a "proactive" tool than a "reactive" tool. Ever try to deploy one with someone grappling with you? If you have the prior warning to deploy your baton, you probably have the prior warning to get away. Also if you use them the way the training teaches (hitting large muscle groups) they are really only going to work well on people that are inclined to follow your directions anyway (see Rodney King video...all those strikes were in green zones...that is why he didn't stop resisting). They are most effective on yellow and red zones but then we are into lethal force application.....batons are mostly for gaining pain compliance on folks who are not inclined to fight to the death.

As also mentioned if you are going to use one, frankly the certification class is VERY weak on retention. You really need to practice that with non compliant opponents to make sure you can in fact keep somene from taking it away from you. I'd MUCH rather try to take a baton away from someone than a sap or blackjack....

You'd be better served to find a good MMA program or wrestling program or learn some simple effective hand to hand skills like WWII combatives and a little Judo and leave the baton to guys who are trying to arrest unruly drunks. In fact a metal bodied flashlght like a surefire 6P can be carried ANYWHERE and used as a fist load in an ice pick grip can be absolutely devastating when delivering a hammer fist and no one is going to charge you for carrying a flashlight......

Edited January 17, 2011 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Punisher84]

^^ Agreed. My personal view is that the certification is good enough, but I did not always hold that view and Fallguy even got an AG opinion stating he did not believe the certification met the same "defense" criteria as an HCP.

I loved having it at first at work, but now it just stays on the belt. Like you said it's a proactive tool. "Comply or get beat!" basically. I'm not trying to be an ass to the OP, but I think he wants a "bat belt" of gear to apply to every situation hoping the gear will save him as opposed to his own abilities.

[Guest The Driller]

police cheif here told me nite sticks were ilegal

[Guest 270win]

I will tell you that you cannot carry a club/baton/blackjack as a weapon in Arkansas unless you are 'on a journey'. It does not matter how you carry, open or conceal. Your certification does not mean anything there. I saw you are on the other end of TN but thought I'd give you a heads up about what I know about Arkansas because I am originally from there. You can only carry a handgun with a TN handgun carry permit in AR. The AR license only covers handguns and does not cover other deadly weapons like Kentucky and Florida.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I will tell you that you cannot carry a club/baton/blackjack as a weapon in Arkansas unless you are 'on a journey'. It does not matter how you carry, open or conceal. Your certification does not mean anything there. I saw you are on the other end of TN but thought I'd give you a heads up about what I know about Arkansas because I am originally from there. You can only carry a handgun with a TN handgun carry permit in AR. The AR license only covers handguns and does not cover other deadly weapons like Kentucky and Florida.

And that is good advice to all. Be sure of what the law is where you are going. What I may carry here at home may not get packed for a trip. A big no no in most places is loaded long guns in your vehicle. Legal here with a Carry Permit, but not OK hardly anywhere else. There are different rules for home and away from home.....

[Guest 270win]

You can carry a loaded long gun in Arkansas without any sort of license because they are not considered a 'weapon', openly or concealed. I know you can carry a loaded long gun in MS, AL, LA, and TX too. Long guns aren't weapons in Texas either. You'd be surprised where you can carry a loaded long gun on you or in the truck. Tennessee is very odd in that you need a permit just to have a magazine loaded long gun in your vehicle.