Private militia legality in TN.

[Guest Keinengel]

So i'm wondering about the laws concerning the concept of running an armed private militia in TN. No im not looking to start one but a friend of mine was on the subject earlier and it got me curious. From what i found through google there doesn't seem to be any laws against it besides public activities.

Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?

[K191145]

I'm just assuming but, as long as they don't violate any firearms laws and don't make threats to kill anyone or overthrow the government, it's perfectly legal to start your own militia.

[Guest strelcevina]

make sure that he keeps it equal opportunity .....its a law

[Armed Aviator]

make sure that he keeps it equal opportunity .....its a law

No left wing nuts allowed . . . guess you're out Strel

[bigwakes]

It's actually part of the second amendment and is not up to the states. As long as there are no laws being broken by anyone.

[MikePapa1]

I'm just assuming but, as long as they don't violate any firearms laws and don't make threats to kill anyone or overthrow the government, it's perfectly legal to start your own militia.

My opinion, as well.

[JReedEsq]

I'm just assuming but, as long as they don't violate any firearms laws and don't make threats to kill anyone or overthrow the government, it's perfectly legal to start your own militia.

While I also agree with the above statement, I've underlined the part a lot of folks calling themselves "militias" tend to have a problem with. Why not just start a "gun club" and incorporate other wilderness activities?

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

make sure that he keeps it equal opportunity .....its a law

Is that your pet peeve?

[Guest BEARMAN]

While I also agree with the above statement, I've underlined the part a lot of folks calling themselves "militias" tend to have a problem with. Why not just start a "gun club" and incorporate other wilderness activities?

I tend to agree with JReedEsq. Gun Club would be a better use of words for naming purposes. I can almost guarentee the use of the word "Militia" anywhere in your naming process, will get your club on the terrorist "watch list" quicker than if you named it Osama's Technical School for Young Men.

However, I digress, the vetting process of members would have to be of extreme importance; this in order to prevent idiots and lunatic's from trying to subvert and deviate from your legal agenda...ie, shooting firearms and disaster preparedness and the like.....Just my opinion...oughta be yours.

[Guest BEARMAN]

OOPS, Double Tap.

Edited January 17, 2011 by BEARMAN
OOPS!....Double Tap.

[Guest BEARMAN]

.

Edited January 17, 2011 by BEARMAN
Repost

[mikegideon]

No left wing nuts allowed . . . guess you're out Strel

AFIK, Strel isn't a member of a protected group, so discriminate away

[JayC]

So i'm wondering about the laws concerning the concept of running an armed private militia in TN. No im not looking to start one but a friend of mine was on the subject earlier and it got me curious. From what i found through google there doesn't seem to be any laws against it besides public activities.

Can anyone enlighten me on this subject?

There is a law that prohibits 'paramilitary' training with and entire list of exceptions.... My guess is that would be the law you'd have to be very careful around...

In theory under the state constitution and state law, in TN line officers are voted on by the members of the militia unit, and staff officers are appointed by the Government... it would seem you could form a militia unit and vote on officers...

But again the paramilitary training law would be issue you'd have to keep a really close eye on, to make sure you didn't violate it by mistake.

[JayC]

Since I'm sure somebody is going to ask:

TCA 39-17-314 is the law you want to read... I'll quote the highlights below:

314b:

A person commits an offense who assembles with one (1) or more persons for the purpose of training or instructing in the use of, or practicing with, any technique or means capable of causing property damage, bodily injury or death with the intent to employ such training, instruction or practice in the commission of a civil disorder.

314c (ouch):

A violation of this section is a Class D felony.

314d:

(2) Nothing contained in this section makes unlawful:

( Any activity intended to teach or practice self-defense or self-defense techniques, such as karate clubs or self-defense clinics, and similar lawful activity;

© Any facility, program or lawful activity related to firearms instruction and training intended to teach the safe handling and use of firearms; or

(D) Any other lawful sports or activities related to the individual recreational use or possession of firearms, including, but not limited to, hunting activities, target shooting, self-defense, firearms collection or any organized activity, including, but not limited to, any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range or shooting range that does not include a conspiracy as defined under the laws of this state, or the knowledge of or the intent to cause or further a civil disorder.

Here is a link to the entire law: Michie's Legal Resources

Also, you'd want to watch out for this federal law:

Section 771 of Chapter 45, a person who is not a member of the Air Force, Army, Marine Corps or Navy may not wear a military uniform or any "distinctive part" of the uniform.

There are a whole bunch of exceptions to that law... but there is one case of a person during world war 2 being charged and convicted under the law for just wearing 'similar' coveralls to the one's worn by the US Navy (he was caught trying to sneak on a US base)... So *some* people believe wearing any military issued camo is a violation under this law... personally I think it's the wearing of rank, skill patches, and name tapes that would get you in hot water.

Also here is the section that covers the militia under TN law:

Michie's Legal Resources

Just in case you want to read it.

[G27]

There is a law that prohibits 'paramilitary' training with and entire list of exceptions.... My guess is that would be the law you'd have to be very careful around...

I assume this is a state law but i'm curious - can you link this?

Edit: all i can find it § 39-17-314, which seems to limit training for the purpose of 'civil disorder'. Not saying that couldn't be used, but I wonder if that would be used in that way.

Edited January 17, 2011 by crimsonaudio

[mikegideon]

I assume this is a state law but i'm curious - can you link this?

Edit: all i can find it § 39-17-314, which seems to limit training for the purpose of 'civil disorder'. Not saying that couldn't be used, but I wonder if that would be used in that way.

"civil disorder" could be interpreted as one of the classic SHTF scenarios.

[Guest Keinengel]

Ok so let me be a little more specific. How much of the activities do you think you could get away with assuming you have a reasonable amount of private wooded property at your disposal and don't bring any of it (guns, uniforms, ideas or otherwise) into the public? Seems to me like most of that would be easy to work around assuming you don't have big brother watching you from a satellite and you don't go into walmart under arms and spreading anti establishment propaganda.

I'm not advocating or suggesting acting illegally just looking to get a realistic answer.

[mikegideon]

Ok so let me be a little more specific. How much of the activities do you think you could get away with assuming you have a reasonable amount of private wooded property at your disposal and don't bring any of it (guns, uniforms, ideas or otherwise) into the public? Seems to me like most of that would be easy to work around assuming you don't have big brother watching you from a satellite and you don't go into walmart under arms and spreading anti establishment propaganda.

I'm not advocating or suggesting acting illegally just looking to get a realistic answer.

I'm not a lawyer, but I think you're asking for trouble. They write gray laws for a reason.

[G27]

"civil disorder" could be interpreted as one of the classic SHTF scenarios.

The law says:

A person commits an offense who assembles with one (1) or more persons for the purpose of training or instructing in the use of, or practicing with, any technique or means capable of causing property damage, bodily injury or death with the intent to employ such training, instruction or practice in the commission of a civil disorder.

I'm no attorney, but that reads, to me, as if training in order to cause civil disorder is illegal.

For the record, I've ZERO (para)military training and have no dog in this fight, I just always assumed you could train for stuff like this without gov't harassment - looks like I might have assumed wrongly...

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Section 771 of Chapter 45, a person who is not a member of the Air Force, Army, Marine Corps or Navy may not wear a military uniform or any "distinctive part" of the uniform.

This got me chuckling. Wonder if that law would apply to a militia of old pot-bellied guys who are all decked out with identical armament and identical clown suits? It is just a funny mental image.

[MikePapa1]

There is a law that prohibits 'paramilitary' training with and entire list of exceptions.... My guess is that would be the law you'd have to be very careful around...

I assume you are referring to TCA §39-17-314. As I read it, it makes illegal training with the intent to commit a "civil disorder." “Civil disorder” means any public disturbance involving acts of violence by an assemblage of two (2) or more persons which acts cause an immediate danger of or result in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual. If you don't espouse overthrow of the government, rioting or destroying the property of others, then you should be safe.

[mikegideon]

The law says:

I'm no attorney, but that reads, to me, as if training in order to cause civil disorder is illegal.

For the record, I've ZERO (para)military training and have no dog in this fight, I just always assumed you could train for stuff like this without gov't harassment - looks like I might have assumed wrongly...

... or continue it. I don't have a dog in it either. I wanna sit on my front porch with a cold beer and shoot zombies That other stuff is too much work

[JayC]

I assume this is a state law but i'm curious - can you link this?

Edit: all i can find it § 39-17-314, which seems to limit training for the purpose of 'civil disorder'. Not saying that couldn't be used, but I wonder if that would be used in that way.

One of the lawyers like Mike should answer that question... but it's my understanding that the wording of this law could be open to a lot of interpretation on the part of a local DA.

As I said, I think you can form a militia legally, but you'd have to be VERY careful about how you worded activities such as training events to stay well clear of this law...

For example a "Small Unit Military Tactics" training course might be an issue under this law... but a similar course which is called "Small Group Self Defense" training, would clearly be an exception under 314.

Again, I only pointed the law out to keep an eye on if you're doing such activities.

[JayC]

Ok so let me be a little more specific. How much of the activities do you think you could get away with assuming you have a reasonable amount of private wooded property at your disposal and don't bring any of it (guns, uniforms, ideas or otherwise) into the public? Seems to me like most of that would be easy to work around assuming you don't have big brother watching you from a satellite and you don't go into walmart under arms and spreading anti establishment propaganda.

I'm not advocating or suggesting acting illegally just looking to get a realistic answer.

There are a number of 'militias' operating in TN currently, and one even has a "legislative" liaisons who meets with TN law makers on a regular basis. They seem to be operating out in the open with out any problems currently...

The key would be to create a self defense club... or tactical shooting club... and teach things along those lines... While the training might cover virtually all the same topics and methods... it would probably be safer from a political stand point.

[JayC]

The law says:

I'm no attorney, but that reads, to me, as if training in order to cause civil disorder is illegal.

For the record, I've ZERO (para)military training and have no dog in this fight, I just always assumed you could train for stuff like this without gov't harassment - looks like I might have assumed wrongly...

Well, the real question is why do we need that law to begin with... it's already a crime to commit civil disorder... I'm pretty sure it's a crime to have a conspiracy to commit civil disorder... So we do we need a seperate felony for training?

BTW TN isn't the only state with such anti-militia laws... a majority of states have similar laws on the books.