Ran into a little problem with one of my local FFLs today on a transfer.

[Rightwinger]

In case something has changed since I worked in a retail gun shop back in the late 1990s, gun shops have no way of knowing whether a gun is stolen when they take it in. I worked for a shop in Kentucky and there was no way to run serial numbers or requirements to hold trade-in guns. If everything looked legit with the owner of the gun and there was no reason to be suspicious, then the trade-in was made and the gun was cleaned up, tagged, and put out for sale. The owner tried to work something out with the local police to have them run the serial numbers through NCIC, but they refused (rightfully so because such an arrangement was prohibited by NCIC policies). I only recall one incident when a stolen firearm was taken in on trade and it was discovered because a detective would come in a couple times per week to see what was taken in on trade. Again, unless things have changed or are just different for each state, there's really no way that Bud's, or any other shop, can check on the status of a firearm (nevermind if it was traded-in before it was even reported stolen).

Any firearm can be checked at the time of the trade in. I'm sure the methods may be different from state to state but you can fax in a stolen gun check to TBI while the potential seller waits if they just want to sell the firearm or run the gun along with the firearm they are trading for in the normal electronic fashion. There is no reason other than the gun was reported AFTER Bud's took it in that they would have a stolen firearm get transferred, just like Metalhead said. I think that would be an easy check as well as Bud's will have the transfer in date in their "book" and the NCIC record will have the reporting date.

Yorkie Girl does the profession well by not wanting to slander another company as there are always sides to a story and Bud's isn't here to represent theirs. However, if a gun came up stolen on a transfer then I think it would behoove the receiving shop to contact Bud's and find out those details of when it was received vs the report of stolen date. I for one would really like to know those facts so that myself personally and the shop I work for knows the facts before dealing with Bud's any longer.

There's also the little factor of someone wanting their new firearm and Bud's needs to be sending a new gun or a refund.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Rightwinger

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Any firearm can be checked at the time of the trade in. I'm sure the methods may be different from state to state but you can fax in a stolen gun check to TBI while the potential seller waits if they just want to sell the firearm or run the gun along with the firearm they are trading for in the normal electronic fashion. There is no reason other than the gun was reported AFTER Bud's took it in that they would have a stolen firearm get transferred, just like Metalhead said. I think that would be an easy check as well as Bud's will have the transfer in date in their "book" and the NCIC record will have the reporting date.

Yorkie Girl does the profession well by not wanting to slander another company as there are always sides to a story and Bud's isn't here to represent theirs. However, if a gun came up stolen on a transfer then I think it would behoove the receiving shop to contact Bud's and find out those details of when it was received vs the report of stolen date. I for one would really like to know those facts so that myself personally and the shop I work for knows the facts before dealing with Bud's any longer.

There's also the little factor of someone wanting their new firearm and Bud's needs to be sending a new gun or a refund.

Precisely my point. If they are dealing in stolen guns and know it we need to know.

[mav]

I

Eric, if you ever have a problem, just let us know. We will be more than happy to try and work it out.

I figured it wouldn't take you guys long to realize who this was.

No problem on my part. As stated in my original post, I was curious about the response I received yesterday when I had asked for the transfer. I was seeking information from those on this forum who are dealers as well as other members who are a lot more knowledgeable on firearms than me.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I spoke to Bud's.

I asked if they have ever heard of them shipping a stolen gun and the person I spoke to said that was the first they have ever heard of a shop stating they received a stolen gun from them.

I am not standing up for Bud's because they screwed the pooch with me last year by sending two guns that both had the same problem after I was told it would never happen again. I seriously doubt I will order from them again but to say they are shipping stolen firearms is a huge stretch.

Dolomite

[Guest Yorkie Girl]

I will say this, and then will not discuss it again.

When a Firearm is taken in on trade, it is up to the Firearms dealer whether or not they do a Serial Number check to see if it has been reported stolen,it is NOT an ATF requirement to do so. It is completely up to the dealer if they want to run a Serial Number check. If the dealer chooses NOT to run a check he would not know if the firearm is stolen until the firearm is being actually transferred to the buyer via the TICS or NICS background check. (it would not show up in an FFL dealer to FFL dealer transfer) At THAT time, if it does come back as a stolen firearm, the police are called, a report is filed, and the firearm is taken by the police department. It is then returned to the original reporting agency, and ultimately back to the original owner.

Knowingly selling stolen firearms is a federal crime. Laziness and Sloppy bookkeeping is JUST a shame (and causes major headaches for those of us who put in the time and effort to do a job correctly). There is a difference.

[vontar]

this has been an interesting read. all 3 pages.

[Superposed]

Well Fugate's did not have to take an hour or more to get me a price on the two 649's (which they did not have in stock at the time) that I bought from them. Took 2-3 minute's to get me a price and asked up front if they could order the guns for me. Two other stores that I went to by being indifferent cost them the sale of over $1100 in sales.

[BimmerFreak]

If you have a question, problem or concern, please feel free to call the store 423.305.0747. It is unfortunate that we can't please everyone (and that some people cannot be pleased at all), and we welcome the chance to right any wrong. While some companies have become complacent, we strive to uphold manufacturer rulings on MAP pricing policies, law enforcement and government program requirements as well as ATF regulations on dealer bookkeeping and firearm serial number checks. For the record, we will gladly accept transfers from any FFL holder with the exception of Bud's Gun Shop.

I will not be drawn into slandering another company. Simply put, this is our transfer policy. Again, we will happily accept any other FFL transfers. If you have questions, please feel free to call the store 423.305.0747.

I believe police reports are public record, so feel free to contact the Chattanooga Police Department if you have further questions regarding the attempted transfer of stolen firearms. It happens more often than one might think.

Eric, if you ever have a problem, just let us know. We will be more than happy to try and work it out.

And Jon, I will see you tonight

Amiee Gregory

Shooter's Depot

423.305.0747

I will say this, and then will not discuss it again.

When a Firearm is taken in on trade, it is up to the Firearms dealer whether or not they do a Serial Number check to see if it has been reported stolen,it is NOT an ATF requirement to do so. It is completely up to the dealer if they want to run a Serial Number check. If the dealer chooses NOT to run a check he would not know if the firearm is stolen until the firearm is being actually transferred to the buyer via the TICS or NICS background check. (it would not show up in an FFL dealer to FFL dealer transfer) At THAT time, if it does come back as a stolen firearm, the police are called, a report is filed, and the firearm is taken by the police department. It is then returned to the original reporting agency, and ultimately back to the original owner.

Knowingly selling stolen firearms is a federal crime. Laziness and Sloppy bookkeeping is JUST a shame (and causes major headaches for those of us who put in the time and effort to do a job correctly). There is a difference.

A couple of thoughts:

1. I didn't realize that a FFL that chooses not to be a supporting dealer could come in here and both defend their shop, AND advertise their business with both logos in their avatar, and by posting their shop info.....

I guess I missed that memo.

2. Dealers can bitch and moan all day long about Bud's, or they can suck it up and realize that places like Bud's will continue to exist, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I would say that 95% of the time when I took a transfer in from Bud's for a customer, that customer ended up buying ammo, a holster, a cleaning kit, or something while they were there picking up their transfer.

You dealers that refuse to accept transfers from Bud's are doing nothing but missing out on additional/future sales opportunities.

So go ahead and refuse those Bud's transfers, Im sure the other shops in your area will appreciate the business!

3. In 5 years of dealing with trade-in guns, I had ONE stolen gun traded in.

This gun (Colt Anaconda) had been traded in by a very good customer, who had purchased it at a gunshow over 6 years prior.

There was nothing that would lead the customer or the shop to believe that the traded gun was anything but legit.

My point? Sh*t happens, and sometimes good customers trade in branded/stolen guns to good dealers.

Its not a conspiracy, its not an indication of poor or sloppy record keeping, and it certainly should not be the measuring stick to be used when rating the honestly integrity of a shop.

4. I think that the shop in question; SHOOTERS DEPOT (since the non-paying vendor feels its ok to jump in, I guess its ok for me to point them out as well) has created the "we don't accept transfers from Bud's" policy out of frustration over their inability to compete with their prices.

I doubt it has much to do with their their "concern" over the source of said firearms.

Finally, I will offer a bit of perspective;

Bud's is one of the largest dealers in the US, and certainly one of the top 3 internet dealers.

They sell/transfer more firearms in one month, than Shooter's Depot will do for all of 2011, so I would say that if they were in the habit of transferring stolen firearms, they wouldnt be in business for very long.

My point? Statements like this

Laziness and Sloppy bookkeeping is JUST a shame (and causes major headaches for those of us who put in the time and effort to do a job correctly). There is a difference.

if directed at Bud's is laughable and posturing at best.

To the OP, there are PLENTY of good shops in your area that are happy to receive transfers from Bud's.

While I certainly encourage you to give your local shops first crack at your business, I understand that sometimes that just doesnt make sense for the buyer.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing....

Edited January 15, 2011 by BimmerFreak

[Guest spoolie]

Pwnd.

[lewisbd]

I stand by BimmerFreak! I buy most of my guns from Buds and currently have a Colt 1911 on layaway that all of the local gun stores said they would have trouble getting Colts in and then insisted on me buying a Kimber. If i wanted a Kimber I would go in and ask to see a Kimber. Buds will still get most if not all of my business (except ammo and cleaning supplies.)

Edited January 15, 2011 by lewisbd

[Guest tnxdshooter]

A couple of thoughts:

1. I didn't realize that a FFL that chooses not to be a supporting dealer could come in here and both defend their shop, AND advertise their business with both logos in their avatar, and by posting their shop info.....

I guess I missed that memo.

2. Dealers can bitch and moan all day long about Bud's, or they can suck it up and realize that places like Bud's will continue to exist, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I would say that 95% of the time when I took a transfer in from Bud's for a customer, that customer ended up buying ammo, a holster, a cleaning kit, or something while they were there picking up their transfer.

You dealers that refuse to accept transfers from Bud's are doing nothing but missing out on additional/future sales opportunities.

So go ahead and refuse those Bud's transfers, Im sure the other shops in your area will appreciate the business!

3. In 5 years of dealing with trade-in guns, I had ONE stolen gun traded in.

This gun (Colt Anaconda) had been traded in by a very good customer, who had purchased it at a gunshow over 6 years prior.

There was nothing that would lead the customer or the shop to believe that the traded gun was anything but legit.

My point? Sh*t happens, and sometimes good customers trade in branded/stolen guns to good dealers.

Its not a conspiracy, its not an indication of poor or sloppy record keeping, and it certainly should not be the measuring stick to be used when rating the honestly integrity of a shop.

4. I think that the shop in question; SHOOTERS DEPOT (since the non-paying vendor feels its ok to jump in, I guess its ok for me to point them out as well) has created the "we don't accept transfers from Bud's" policy out of frustration over their inability to compete with their prices.

I doubt it has much to do with their their "concern" over the source of said firearms.

Finally, I will offer a bit of perspective;

Bud's is one of the largest dealers in the US, and certainly one of the top 3 internet dealers.

They sell/transfer more firearms in one month, than Shooter's Depot will do for all of 2011, so I would say that if they were in the habit of transferring stolen firearms, they wouldnt be in business for very long.

My point? Statements like this if directed at Bud's is laughable and posturing at best.

To the OP, there are PLENTY of good shops in your area that are happy to receive transfers from Bud's.

While I certainly encourage you to give your local shops first crack at your business, I understand that sometimes that just doesnt make sense for the buyer.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing.... :popcorn:

4. I think that the shop in question; SHOOTERS DEPOT (since the non-paying vendor feels its ok to jump in, I guess its ok for me to point them out as well) has created the "we don't accept transfers from Bud's" policy out of frustration over their inability to compete with their prices.

I doubt it has much to do with their their "concern" over the source of said firearms.

This point four here is exactly the point i was trying to make as the real reason that shooter's depot will not accept transfers from buds. They dont want to admit it but that is the case.

I have never done business with the depot but was going to but not after this.

[Guest RevScottie]

4. I think that the shop in question; SHOOTERS DEPOT (since the non-paying vendor feels its ok to jump in, I guess its ok for me to point them out as well) has created the "we don't accept transfers from Bud's" policy out of frustration over their inability to compete with their prices.

I doubt it has much to do with their their "concern" over the source of said firearms.

This point four here is exactly the point i was trying to make as the real reason that shooter's depot will not accept transfers from buds. They dont want to admit it but that is the case.

I have never done business with the depot but was going to but not after this.

How can you state "that is the case" so emphatically concerning someone you have never done business with? If you think it's a competition issue why do they accept transfers from everyone but Buds? Sounds like they got burned by Buds on a transaction and aren't going to let it happen again and who could blame them?

I think we should all be thankful that any gun shop does transfers period. It's like buying a TV from Walmart online and then expecting Sears to deliver it to you. Shooters is in business to sell guns, ammo, range meberships, etc, and they may miss one of those sales while doing a transfer for you. I have dealt with the entire staff on countless occasions and they have always been great. By the way I think its kinda petty to expect someone to become a supporting vendor in order to come online and explain a situation where their reputation is being questioned by folks who have never dealt with them.

[Guest JHatmaker]

I think the OP's question was answered; whether that answer is true or not can be debated back and forth until eternity.

Also, to the Shooter's Depot, the vendors who are apart of TGO pay to be able to advertise here and in their posts, etc. Please refrain from using any corporate logos and/or website links in your signature. Please see the details on becoming a Supporting Vendor if you'd like, but until then we need to protect the best interests of our paying advertisers. There are many benefits to becoming a supporting vendor, please let us know if you have any questions on becoming one.

Thanks!