just another please help me choose my next handgun thread...

[strickj]

another xd9 vote here.they have the greatness of a glock and a 1911 and just like glocks and 1911's there are parts and cool stuff to add behind every rabbits ars.they have a similar trigger safety to glock and a grip safety which make it a bit safer then a glock when handled right.the stock sights are steel unlike the glocks plastic sights.the one bad thing is to strip you have to pull the trigger to release the slide which everybody agrees is bad,i can not remember if glocks are this way or not though?!?

if your ever around chatt,you can take mine for a spin along with a couple of other 9mm's that are less new gun owner friendly.

ok,...i will stop kicking glock now,back to you johnny...

[strickj]

another xd9 plug is they will hold 16+1 but with a speed loader 18 will stick in there + you can get mag extentions for an extra 6 or so and 32 round mags

also the xd comes with a life time warranty

Edited February 6, 2008 by strickj

[molonlabetn]

Responding to the OP...

You would be best served by an accurate, easy to maintain and operate full-size semi-auto. I don't know what types you have experience with, but here are some suggestions to look at:

Springfield XD-9 Service or Tactical - Very reliable and accurate, excellent customer support, and many aftermarket options for upgrades. XDs have good ergonomics, and a consistent single-action trigger. They make great all-purpose pistols

Glock 19 or 17 - Also very reliable and accurate, cheap spare parts, and a huge array of arftermarket options. Glocks have horrible ergonomics, but they function just fine. Don't use reloads (especially non-jacketed bullets), the Glock barrel has had many noted issues with leading, overpressure and lack of chamber support... however, the 9mm models are the best of the bunch.

Browning/FN High-Power - All-steel pistol soaks up recoil, and is very accurate. These pistols are a pleasure to shoot, and are available in many configurations. Single action trigger is very consistent.

Beretta 92FS - Very reliable and accurate pistol, used by the US military since the 80s. These pistols are very easy to shoot well, and often recommended for beginners.

Sig P225, P226, P228 or P229 - In your price range, you'll have to get a used one... but there are many Sig 'certified pre-owned' and trade-in guns on the market. This is another pistol used by certain US and European military & police agencies. It is a very easy pistol to shoot well, and is extremely accurate. Sig produces a high-quality product.

CZ-75, Witness, or Baby-Eagle - Much like a cross between the High-Power and Sig. Very accurate and easy to shoot.

I'm sure there are many more, but out of that list you're sure to find one which feels right when you handle it, and you can't go wrong with any of them.

Edited February 6, 2008 by molonlabetn

[molonlabetn]

Now how can you update perfection?

You can't, but Glocks have been updated 4 times.

[strickj]

You can't, but Glocks have been updated 4 times.

[Guest db99wj]

AD is not unique to Glocks as seen recently on the TGO forums of the XD owner who shot their hand performing the cleaning procedures. I have seen issues in other gun makers with "blow-ups". Again, not unique to Glocks. Yea, why update perfection.

Retch, a good place to start is to go to an indoor range that rents handguns. Try various models they rent and in different calibers. Do not be turned-off by one caliber because gun maker XYZ did not shot well or the recoil in that caliber. Different guns have different shooting characteristics.

Regarding calibers, you will get a lot of varied opinions on the gun forums. I prefer the 45 acp caliber.

The XD incident was not an AD, it was ND. Big difference, that guy did not drop the magazine, nor did he check the chamber and clear the weapon. You have to lock the slide back in order to move the take down lever on an XD. This guy did not remove the magazine, did not check the chamber and did not clear the weapon before he started the process of cleaning, so he started cleaning a loaded handgun. He did not follow the simple rules. Everything we read about cleaning a handgun starts something like this. Remove all ammunition, take ammunition into another room, lock said room so that ammunition can not be seen or touched during cleaning.

Responding to the OP...

You would be best served by an accurate, easy to maintain and operate full-size semi-auto. I don't know what types you have experience with, but here are some suggestions to look at:

Springfield XD-9 Service or Tactical - Very reliable and accurate, excellent customer support, and many aftermarket options for upgrades. XDs have good ergonomics, and a consistent single-action trigger. They make great all-purpose pistols

Glock 19 or 17 - Also very reliable and accurate, cheap spare parts, and a huge array of arftermarket options. Glocks have horrible ergonomics, but they function just fine. Don't use reloads (especially non-jacketed bullets), the Glock barrel has had many noted issues with leading, overpressure and lack of chamber support... however, the 9mm models are the best of the bunch.

Browning/FN High-Power - All-steel pistol soaks up recoil, and is very accurate. These pistols are a pleasure to shoot, and are available in many configurations. Single action trigger is very consistent.

Beretta 92FS - Very reliable and accurate pistol, used by the US military since the 80s. These pistols are very easy to shoot well, and often recommended for beginners.

Sig P225, P226, P228 or P229 - In your price range, you'll have to get a used one... but there are many Sig 'certified pre-owned' and trade-in guns on the market. This is another pistol used by certain US and European military & police agencies. It is a very easy pistol to shoot well, and is extremely accurate. Sig produces a high-quality product.

CZ-75, Witness, or Baby-Eagle - Much like a cross between the High-Power and Sig. Very accurate and easy to shoot.

I'm sure there are many more, but out of that list you're sure to find one which feels right when you handle it, and you can't go wrong with any of them.

Great Post, +1

You can't, but Glocks have been updated 4 times.

:cool:

+2:D

[creeky]

My basic parameters are:

<$550 out the door

9mm

Semi-auto (I have a revolver)

function over form

(IMHO) You just described a Glock 17 (or 19).

Never shot a 9mm Glock before though.

Have shot the G22, G23 & G27 (.40 cal.) They all shot

well, and I was surprised how well I was able to hit

with them from just picking them up.

[DWARREN123]

I don't love GLOCK's! But having said that I have 2. They are my utility guns for range and carry.

I think they are ugly and blocky looking but with the right holster pretty easy to carry. I have a 23 and 27 and the 23 has gone thru more than 1,000 rounds of different brands and types of ammo to include reloads and has not had one mafunction.

The 27 is new and only has 200 rounds thru it with one malfunction because of ammo. Both are accurate and easy, for me, on recoil.

I don't love them but they work and that is what I require.

Edited February 6, 2008 by DWARREN123

[SkWaShDeM]

Just because I can, if you're not planning on carrying it, and don't care about looks, you could get a Hi-Point. They're uglier than a Glock, blockier than a Glock, really don't have much in the way of accessories, but they are reliable and affordable. And at their price points, you can buy a pistol and a carbine from Hi-Point, and still have $200 or so let over for ammo.

You can ignore the Acolytes from St. Gaston's Temple. They've been drinking the holy water again. It gives them Glock Fever. I would recommend a liberal dosage of St. Browning's Range Remedy #1911. Cures it right up most of the time. YMMV

[threeshot]

The XD incident was not an AD, it was ND. Big difference, that guy did not drop the magazine, nor did he check the chamber and clear the weapon. You have to lock the slide back in order to move the take down lever on an XD. This guy did not remove the magazine, did not check the chamber and did not clear the weapon before he started the process of cleaning, so he started cleaning a loaded handgun. He did not follow the simple rules. Everything we read about cleaning a handgun starts something like this. Remove all ammunition, take ammunition into another room, lock said room so that ammunition can not be seen or touched during cleaning.

Actually according to the DOD, AD and ND have the same meaning.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/82DV/FuryFocus/JuneFuryFocus.pdf

Negligent discharges used to be called accidental discharges, but to put the onus more on the operator and less on the weapon the term has changed.

There is no standardized definition in the Department of Defense for accidental discharge, or the newer term negligent discharge or the newest term unauthorized or inadvertent discharge.

Retch,

Ignore all this nonsense about Glock bashing. Choose the gun that you feel is best for your needs.

When I was researching the purchase of my handgun, I went to a few internet gun forums to read various threads about home/self defense.

Let me summarize the lessons learned (as best as I can remember):

1. Do not set the safety on your gun (home or carry). You will forget to disengage the safety when SHTF. Also your fine motor skills will be dramatically impeded during the SHTF.
   
2. Have the gun ready to fire. Meaning, a round in the chamber. See above for reasons and you may not have the time to chamber the gun during a sudden or unexpected encounter with the bad guy(s).
   
3. You will revert to the level of your training when SHTF. Remember, we are civilians practicing at the shooting range. Unless you pay money to go to defense shooting schools that put you through exercises of moving and shooting, drawing from the holster and disengaging your gun safety, etc, you will revert to the "shooting range" training. This means you are used to the gun safety being off and you plus the target are stationary.
   
4. Even the "pros" screw-up. I wish I remember the gentleman's name, however, he posted how he awoke to a noise outside a remote range/cabin he was staying. He got up, took is 1911 Colt and chambered a round. Discovered a raccoon outside and went back to bed. Since he did not like keeping a round in the chamber, the next morning he dropped the magazine, pulled the slide. And guess what? No round. He believes he did not fully pull the slide rearward when he awoke from his sleep and did not actually chamber a round. From that day forward, this proficient gun shooter decided to start carrying with a round chambered in the gun.

With the above in mind, I decided to use a firearm that fit my needs and not opinion bashing of gun maker X over gun maker Y. I performed my own research regarding ballistics and made my mind-up on the 45 ACP.

You will not find consensus regarding gun makers nor calibers on any gun forums. So I went to indoor ranges to rent handguns and went shooting with a friend that let me shoot his handguns. It is worth the time and effort to feel confident of your choice of firearms and caliber.

I hope this helps you make a more informed decision.

Edited February 7, 2008 by threeshot
Fix grammar errors and misspelling of words

[Guest canynracer]

like I said, there are SEVERAL guns in your price range that you will love...

shoot them, pick one...

I have 2500+ rds through my sigma 9ve...no issues at all, but lots of people will complain that the trigger is too hard, but there are women on the board that have no issues with it.

There are several guys here on the board that are probably close enough to meet you at the range, let you shoot theirs, and help you make a choice...we are all cool like that

[deerslayer]

The ergonomics of a Glock are not good or bad; they simply work for some people, and are terrible for others. Ergonomic feel is a highly personal feature. The ergonomics of a 1911 with a flat mainspring housing are terrible for me--the gun naturally points too low. Different strokes for different folks. The Glock works best for me, but is definitely not perfect.

[Guest db99wj]

Actually according to the DOD, AD and ND have the same meaning.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/82DV/FuryFocus/JuneFuryFocus.pdf

Definition aside and noted, the guy was negligent in his procedures of handgun cleaning.

NRA's rules on gun cleaning, I did not highlight any of the text below.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

• Cleaning
  Regular cleaning is important in order for your gun to operate correctly and safely. Taking proper care of it will also maintain its value and extend its life. Your gun should be cleaned every time that it is used. A gun brought out of prolonged storage should also be cleaned before shooting. Accumulated moisture and dirt, or solidified grease and oil, can prevent the gun from operating properly.
  Before cleaning your gun, make absolutely sure that it is unloaded. The gun's action should be open during the cleaning process. Also, be sure that no ammunition is present in the cleaning area.
  

So in summation, since the guy that shot himself did not follow a basic rule of firearm safety and handgun cleaning, he was negligent. I also think saying something was an accident implies just that, an accident. Was it an accident? Yes, but he neglected to follow the basic rules, so I consider it negligent. I didn't want the OP to mis-interpret that the gun went off accidentally, when it didn't.

[Guest Retch]

Wow. Thanks for the help gang.

I went to Coal Creek Armory again tonight and shot the XD9, a cz and shot the glock19 again. Over the past few weeks I've also shot a bursa, beretta and S&W airweight and a couple of keltecs. And a skyy, which I'd never heard of.

Here's where I'm at. I've shot the glock more than anything else and it's just not the gun for me. I went into this thinking I would get a glock.

The bursa, beretta and the skyy felt pretty similar. All very nice guns, but I just didn't get that gotta have one feeling.

The cz felt great but a bit heavy. Nice gun though...maybe a close second for me.

The xd9 felt right. I am really impressed with this gun. And they've got one at Coal creek nib for $495...tempting.

I'll get a dedicated carry gun down the road, so size is not a factor here. I still haven't shot a Taurus. I was hoping to get a look at a 24/7 or millenium. I ruled out the 1911's because I thought they were in .45 only...and they're a bit pricey. Also haven't held the S&M mp 9mm which looks sharp.

I don't know if I should look for the xd used...try to find a 1911 in 9mm to shoot...try to find a taurus to shoot or just go buy the xd at CCA and be done with it. The truth is shopping for a new gun (or bow, or truck...or whatever) is half the fun anyway. You guys are great for taking the time to share your k nowledge. If/when I pull the trigger I'll definately post up.

[Guest Rccola]

There are several guys here on the board that are probably close enough to meet you at the range, let you shoot theirs, and help you make a choice...we are all cool like that

Retch I see you live in Knoxville too. If you wanted to we could meet up at Coal Creek some time and you can shoot my P226 . I know it's a little out of your price range but not by much, i picked mine up at coal creek for $620 and it was a factory recondition.

[Smith]

Wow. Thanks for the help gang.

I went to Coal Creek Armory again tonight and shot the XD9, a cz and shot the glock19 again. Over the past few weeks I've also shot a bursa, beretta and S&W airweight and a couple of keltecs. And a skyy, which I'd never heard of.

Here's where I'm at. I've shot the glock more than anything else and it's just not the gun for me. I went into this thinking I would get a glock.

The bursa, beretta and the skyy felt pretty similar. All very nice guns, but I just didn't get that gotta have one feeling.

The cz felt great but a bit heavy. Nice gun though...maybe a close second for me.

The xd9 felt right. I am really impressed with this gun. And they've got one at Coal creek nib for $495...tempting.

I'll get a dedicated carry gun down the road, so size is not a factor here. I still haven't shot a Taurus. I was hoping to get a look at a 24/7 or millenium. I ruled out the 1911's because I thought they were in .45 only...and they're a bit pricey. Also haven't held the S&M mp 9mm which looks sharp.

I don't know if I should look for the xd used...try to find a 1911 in 9mm to shoot...try to find a taurus to shoot or just go buy the xd at CCA and be done with it. The truth is shopping for a new gun (or bow, or truck...or whatever) is half the fun anyway. You guys are great for taking the time to share your k nowledge. If/when I pull the trigger I'll definately post up.

My story was very similar. I went to get the Glock and came out with the XD. M&P's weren't out yet, so I can't say how that would have gone. Knowing all that I know now, I am very glad I got the XD. $495 is a good price.

[Guest canynracer]

XDs are real nice.

I think you need to at least hold the M&P, and the Taurus...

and I would take RCCola up on his offer and shoot his Sig, you can probably shop around for a used one in your price range...

it just doesnt sound like you have made up your mind, you are doing GREAT narrowing the field...but you should at least hold the Taurus,and the M&P...I love the M&P (but I am partial to S&W) I also like the Sig.

[SkWaShDeM]

$495 with or without night sights? I paid $425 for my bi-tone 4" without night sights three years ago.

[DWARREN123]

Go with what feels right to you but if it will be concealed carried make sure it is "RELIABLE", nothing will ever ruin your day as much as hearing no bang when you need to hear one!

[Guest Retch]

Thanks for all of the help. I decided to go with the CZ. Multiple range sessions with the CZ75 compact and the XD9, and ultimately the CZ just felt right. I'll go back to lurking and learning...

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

I would recommend shooting both the XD9 and the M&P9 then picking whichever one feels more natural.

[possum]

I say Glock 19.

[Guest GMCS(SW)]

Sounds like you made the right decision for you. You took the time to try a nice varity of weapons and picked what's right for you. I prefere Glocks but that works for me. Like you said test driving is half the fun.

[Guest canynracer]

Thanks for all of the help. I decided to go with the CZ. Multiple range sessions with the CZ75 compact and the XD9, and ultimately the CZ just felt right. I'll go back to lurking and learning...

Nice job!! congrats, after you get it, you will have to post pictures!!

and learning is fine, but dont lurk, join in on the fun!!!