Gun pointed at you...do you shoot?

[titan14]

Relax, there, bubba. Never claimed I was a badass. Just stated that, from personal experience, it is possible to dodge a punch. I won't pretend that I won every fight or land every punch.

Relax there Nancy...oh my name is not Bubba....

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

So is that a "yes"?

And I certainly have a reason: Educational Purposes.

[internet badass]Unfortunately, I think I'd be giving you the education.[/internet badass]

Yes, but only so long as TGO David will, after I am revived from your devistating punch, prove that he can dodge a bullet!

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

A lot of this conversation reminds me of the scene in the movie Billy Jack in which Billy tells the BG something to the effect of "I'm fixin to place my right foot on the left side of your head and there isnt anything that you can do about it" and then proceeds to do just that knocking the BG out cold. I at one time was that fast and good enough to do it.....but I digress.

The original question was "what would we do when confronted with a drawn weapon"? This can be debated back and forth until the end of time and the answer is always really going to be "I dont know"

None of us can know for certain just what we may or may not do. We can play these things out in our heads and on a forum and think and talk of things that we MAY do, but the truth remains that we simply can not know until we are actually in the situation.

I have seen lifetime hunters and folks that appear to be genuine tough guys:tough: completely freeze in combat and at the same time some of the meek and mild folks turn out to be near Rambo types when the shooting starts.

Some of us (myself included) have already made up our minds that we are not going to simply stand there and be shot, but while the idea has been danced around a bit,... the idea of creating a diversion simply for the sake of being a diversion was not mentioned.

That is the one thing that I always think about when running these things through my head. I have stated before that on the days that I am having a lot of trouble getting around I tend to just stay home. But there are times when that simply isnt an option and I find myself out in public with my walking cane. (=perception of easy target)

Sometimes those days coincide with bill paying day which means I have a good bit of cash on me. It is only money but I am not giving it up without a fight if I can at all help it. I do realize that should I let my SA slip up that I may well find myself in a situation in which giving up the cash without a fight is the only way to go home, but giving up the cash may also just be the diversion that I need. And at the same time that cane itself could be used many ways to create a diversion long enough for me to move (be it ever so gingerly) off of the X and get to my weapon.

With the cane in my left hand it could also be used to knock the BG's point of aim off long enough for me to use my right hand to get to my weapon. If I am swinging a cane chances are that the last thing BG would be thinking was that I was going for a gun.

I have also envisioned simply faking a heart attack and dropping to the ground so that my weapon side is hidden from view so that I can draw. But the fact remains that I have no way of knowing for certain just what I would do other than the idea that I AM going to do something. And while I can and anyone can think and think about these things I do know that the something that I do may well be just piss myself. I doubt it, but it is possible and I feel that anyone who says that they know for certain what they would do in any of these "What ifs" is simply fooling themselves. Even so.....someone thinking that way in no way effects me so I have no reason to question what they may claim that they would do.

But folks I do find it a bit disheartening to see the name calling and belittling of others opinions here so often.

It would be one thing to be called out and disagreed with if someone claimed that they routinely trained by shooting an apple off of their wife's head at 50 yards with their LCP or similar weapon (only I do that:D;))

But when we are talking general "What ifs", it does, at least to me, seem that everyone's thoughts and ideas should carry some merit no matter how odd they may seem or how far away from the majority's opinions that they are.

I really do wish that there was a whole lot less of that going on and it seems to be getting more and more prevalent of late on this board.

But then again who am I to say how things should be? I am just a grumpy old man and a guest at someone else's place:shrug:

So do carry on:)

[Guest Jamie]

If you get the first shot, being a martial badass and all, I'm sure I'll be out for the count.

See my prior post. And no, I wouldn't take a swing at you without your permission.

And no, I wouldn't knock you out... unless you happen to have a "glass jaw".

The other will have to console themselves by kicking me while I'm down. Even then, I'll bet one of them will miss!

Now you have to know I wouldn't let anybody kick you while you were down.

This is a great thread. In one corner, we have guys who can dodge bullets. In the other, guys that can throw punches no one can dodge.

You really need to spend some time researching and reading up on human reaction time. And I'm not joking here.

There are many things that we humans just aren't capable of avoiding without some kind of prior warning; we have to anticipate, and basically move prior to or during a particular motion, in order to avoid it. That's just basic biology and neurology.

I'm just glad you are the good guys........I think........

I never made any claim of being one of the "good guys", only that I'm not a "bad guy". You just present an interesting challenge that I'm willing to accept, if it's ever possible.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Jamie

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Relax there Nancy...oh my name is not Bubba....

How did you know my name was Nancy?

[titan14]

How did you know my name was Nancy?

Middle initial...it was an educated guess....

[Guest Jamie]

[internet badass]Unfortunately, I think I'd be giving you the education.[/internet badass]

Could be. I'm not your age anymore. Still, I'm a long way from dead, I think.

You certainly have my permission to teach me any lesson you think you're up to, at any opportunity you get. 'Cause I'm always eager to learn.

Yes, but only so long as TGO David will, after I am revived from your devistating punch, prove that he can dodge a bullet!

Damn... now you want a DEVASTATING punch? Okay, if you insist... But I'm not paying your medical bills...

You'll have to take the whole bullet-dodging thing up with David though...

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

If you get the first shot, being a martial badass and all, I'm sure I'll be out for the count. The other will have to console themselves by kicking me while I'm down. Even then, I'll bet one of them will miss!

This is a great thread. In one corner, we have guys who can dodge bullets. In the other, guys that can throw punches no one can dodge. I'm just glad you are the good guys........I think........

Dont worry man, while I dont always agree with you I dont always disagree either and if someone tries to hit you while you are down they will have to deal with my old mans cane. It is devestaing in itself. Yall let me know when I need to make this roadtrip.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Dont worry man, while I dont always agree with you I dont always disagree either and if someone tries to hit you while you are down they will have to deal with my old mans cane. It is devestaing in itself. Yall let me know when I need to make this roadtrip.

I appreciate the help, even if it comes from a walking implement.

I won't speak for the others, but I don't think we'll be testing this any time soon. I lost my desire to fist fight with odd strangers long ago. I'll just concede that Jaime (and Titan, for that matter) are capable of throwing a punch that no human can dodge, especially a middle-aged, white collar slob like myself who can't even dodge bullets.

[Mike.357]

dang, I could swear we are all going to start singing Kumbaya any minute now.

That must mean we are mellowing a bit or the alcohol is having the desired effect.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

dang, I could swear we are all going to start singing Kumbaya any minute now.

That must mean we are mellowing a bit or the alcohol is having the desired effect.

A little Fat Tire Ale sets everything in perspective.

[Guest Jamie]

dang, I could swear we are all going to start singing Kumbaya any minute now.

That must mean we are mellowing a bit or the alcohol is having the desired effect.

Mike, if I start singing, you can count on there being a fight.

Unfortunately, I'll be the one receiving punches that I never see coming... and sticks, rocks, beer bottles... :-\

[TGO David]

Jesus... I leave for a few hours and my name's getting thrown around like Jamie's fist, and Guy Ina Speedo is running around talking about shooting me. Does that qualify as intent?

I'll have to revisit all of this tomorrow after I've had a few hours to sleep off all of the badassery I've committed today.

[titan14]

Jesus... I leave for a few hours and my name's getting thrown around like Jamie's fist, and Guy Ina Speedo is running around talking about shooting me. Does that qualify as intent?

I'll have to revisit all of this tomorrow after I've had a few hours to sleep off all of the badassery I've committed today.

[Guest Jamie]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Guest mosinon]

I'm going to bet that the "right" move depends more on the guy holding the gun than anything else.

If it is just some thug who hasn't ever practiced, well your chances are pretty good if you start dodging and weaving. If you've also practiced this stuff, then your chances are really good. A lot of officers, in the heat of the moment, will miss a three foot shot (or so I am told by a Fed, but he could just be relating personal experience).

On the other hand if the guy holding the gun happens to be a pro hit man or something, with plenty of training, then it would be best not to go for it.

TGO David can imagine he juke and jive and dodge bullets all he wants but if Jamie is on the other end of the firefight that might not be a good plan. Just using the names of people I suspect have practiced this stuff, no offense intended.

Since there probably aren't too many members on TGO who have professional hit men after them and who aren't being stalked by ex green berets, you're probably better off diving and rolling (for it to be a legal shoot you have to yell barrel roll and contact I think) and then unloading on the guy.

Which is a nice fiction. Everyone assumes that they are better than the next guy. While you are rolling around, running diagonally and hopping at angles only anticipated seen on the imaginary plane you also have to unholster your weapon and get it on target, pull the trigger and hope it incapacitates the other guy. Which is something you can easily imagine from a video game but something that is probably hard to pull off in real life unless you've spent time practicing.

So, if you are really worried about it, I'd recommend practicing. A lot. When the adrenalin gets flowing unless you've practiced a ton you won't pull off any of that video game stuff. If you have practiced a ton, you'd be surprised at what you can do.

By the way, if you ever get in a gunfight with me (not recommended) DO NOT try try the dodge and weave tactic. You try and pull that crap on me and I'll put two right between your eyes. If you stand still, calmly pull your weapon, maybe light a smoke or something and chat about the stock market you can shoot me at your leisure. Cause my shots go everywhere but where I want them to.

[Mike]

The more established members have set the standard of discourse on this forum, and I'm just playing along. TGO David, and Mike, and Jamie, and even The Punisher! certainly don't seem to spare the sarcasm or frank conversation; why should I be held to a higher standard? My comments above weren't that abusive and were definitely on target. If that offends you, then I'll be happy to stick my big boy pants in the mail for you.

Everyone needs to calm the **** down.

I've read over the thread and I really don't understand what you and DaveTN trying to argue about. of course you aren't going to just start blazing away, but doing something rash and unexpected does have benefits. Most guys that "pull guns" on people have done it many times before and are counting on intimidation to get what they want. Most folks comply and roll over like a beached whale. Those dudes you can most likely get the upper hand on if you spot an opening and have some gumption about you.

Bottom line is that it is situation dependent. Multiple factors from type of bad guy, mannerisms, your mindset, will to do what needs to be done regardless of the necessary action. Sometimes just keeping your mouth shut and being calm will get you out, sometimes not.

Mike

Edit: For those interested. Come put up or shut up. Force on Force simunitions - Jan 31-Feb1

Edited January 9, 2011 by Mike

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Jesus... I leave for a few hours and my name's getting thrown around like Jamie's fist, and Guy Ina Speedo is running around talking about shooting me. Does that qualify as intent?

I'll have to revisit all of this tomorrow after I've had a few hours to sleep off all of the badassery I've committed today.

If you're gonna use the ban hammer, let Jaime do it. I don't wanna see it coming.......

[Guest Jamie]

If you're gonna use the ban hammer, let Jaime do it. I don't wanna see it coming.......

Nuh uh... I'm not a moderator. I'd have to behave better if I were, so haven't volunteered for the job. So just piss off and anticipate seeing the "hand of god" come for ya.

[Guest Jamie]

Come put up or shut up. Force on Force simunitions - Jan 31-Feb1

Do that during the summer, when I'm not fighting with the weather and this hip and leg, and I might have to come play.

But if you're gonna force my old ass to come do it during the coldest part of the winter, you'd better be using live ammunition.

[Punisher84]

I wonder if Guy is just good at ducking punches...

Edited January 9, 2011 by Bronker
Too far. Ease up.

[Guest Jamie]

I wonder if Guy is just good at ducking punches...

Nah, I don't think he's a politician...

Edited January 9, 2011 by Bronker

[Guest wg24]

Well, I never planned on logging in and seeing all the debate. I apologize for any issues I may have caused.

After reading the thread, I like the idea of practicing side stepping and drawing. It seems like a great exercise to get out of the line of fire and on target.

Then again, barrel rolling sounds like a blast too.

[Mike]

Do that during the summer, when I'm not fighting with the weather and this hip and leg, and I might have to come play.

But if you're gonna force my old ass to come do it during the coldest part of the winter, you'd better be using live ammunition.

Also offered in July and November.

[Mike]

Well, I never planned on logging in and seeing all the debate. I apologize for any issues I may have caused.

After reading the thread, I like the idea of practicing side stepping and drawing. It seems like a great exercise to get out of the line of fire and on target.

Then again, barrel rolling sounds like a blast too.

You should always be moving. One of the biggest training scars comes from the static range. Standing still. Non moving argets are easy to hit. Speed, angles and distance are your friend.

Mike