First 1911 Para GI expert?

[CM1021]

Bud's has this gun for 468.00 and it ships for free seems like a great deal to me for my first 1911...I have a gen 3 glock19 on the way but I have always wanted a 1911 I just think they're awesome!! So my question for you guys is this a good first 1911...also are there some good aftermarket parts for this gun? It will prob be a safe queen but might pull night stand duty...only thing I would probably change would be a lighter trigger, magwell, and night sights...maybe some other things after I dive into the 1911 world!! Any experience with this gun good, bad, or ugly just let me know!!

Thanks,

Coty

[Lumber_Jack]

You can't go wrong at that price. It's basically a standard GI model with a beavertail grip safety and loop hammer. I wouldn't worry about the trigger it's a single action and will be crisp. As far as parts its a 1911 its a standard single stack so any aftermarket mainspring housing with magwell will fit with some minor fitting possibly required. I think it has dovetail sights but not 100%. If it does you can swap for Novak or Trijicon no prob. You won't find a 1911 for that price without going the ATI route. Don't forget the FFL fee regardless if shipping is free

Correction: the gun listed for 468 Has the standard grip safety. If it were me i would save an extra 100 dollars and buy the GI ESP with the beavertail grip safety, just my opinion

Edited January 7, 2011 by Lumber_Jack

[CM1021]

Thanks for the info...I didn't notice it didn't have the beavertail safety...I will definately spend the extra hundred for it...

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bud's pricing does not include a few fees they charge. One is a 3% Credit Card fee and another is $5 for shipping insurance. You might not have to pay for insurance and just refuse the gun if it is damaged during shipment. Also, without a beavertail you will have the hammer bite you on a regular basis. I would do as Lumber Jack said an look for something with a beavertail. If you are on a budget a RIA Tactical or a Metro Arms are going to fall into the same budget and for a first 1911 they are great guns. Bud's sells both. I have had a lot of 1911's over the years and love my newly purchased Metro Arms. It is a very accurate, quality feeling gun. Not sure how close you are to Knoxville but if you are ever in the area you are more than welcome to shoot mine.

As with any 1911, purchasing one is going to lead to a maddening addiction once you get it and see how easy it is to change it to your individual tastes. As far as quality parts go everyone has their preference. Mine is Ed Brown parts. I have used other names as well but I like the Ed Brown stuff for a few reasons. Mainly the cost and second is they seem to need very little fitting. They do need to be fitted but they seem to go in quicker than others I have tried.

Make sure to clean the gun well and apply some high quality grease before shooting the gun. And before doing anything to the trigger shoot a few hundred rounds through it because the trigger might get better as it breaks in.

Standard 1911 parts should fit without issue but nearly all internal parts on a 1911 are going to need to be fitted to the gun or other parts (unless you are extremely lucky). This requires someone who knows what they are doing. The trigger may not need to be fitted but to get a decent trigger pull it takes more than just a trigger swap. For a decent trigger the factory sear must be tweaked or a new one installed and fitted, either way it requires some experience to make it safe. Tweaking the 3 fingered spring is also needed to get the most out of a trigger. Get that wrong and the hammer will follow the slide and cause a slam fire. And from my experience most times when replacing the sear you need to fit the thumb safety or replace it because it was fitted to the old sear. Also, when replacing just the trigger you might have to fit or replace the grip safety depending on how the grip safety leg interacts with the trigger bow.

There is a lot that goes into a quality 1911 but once you have a gun setup how you like it there is nothing more enjoyable. Every time I pull the trigger on my recently worked over 1911 I smile because it is a joy to shoot.

I have a few things I ALWAYS do when tweaking the triggers on my 1911's and a few of these can be done without any fitting of parts. One is install a 20 pound mainspring. It is lighter than the factory spring and results in a lighter trigger. I polish the sides and rear of the trigger bow to a mirror like finish. I polish the bottom of the disconnect where it rides on the trigger bow. Polishing doesn't really lighten anything but makes it seem lighter because it feels so smooth. And finally I use molybendum disulfide grease on all the wear surfaces including the hammer and sear. Just using the grease improves the feel of the trigger. It also helps things stay in place while you insert the pins during reassembly. I also use the grease on the slide/frame surfaces.

Dolomite

[CM1021]

Wow thanks fir all the info and the offer! I'm bout an hour away from knox but I get down sometimes...I'm gonna be coming through next wed beacon to naheville and I'm sroppin at craigs to pick up my wifes 17... are.there a lot of indoor ranges in the knox area?

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are a few. I have a range at home that is 25 yards. We can fire from a covered porch.

Dolomite

[Lumber_Jack]

To dolomite's point about cost, with 3% and $5 insurance, you are at $601.37 + $10 for background + $50 FFL transfer fee, for the beavertail model. The cheapest I've seen in Knoxville is at Frontier Firearms for $619 cash + %9.25 tax+ $10 background

So

Buds = $661.00

Frontier= $686.25

To me I'd rather spend 25 extra and take it home that day, others may disagree, you might also find a cheaper FFL Fee to add some savings

Someone check me if I'm wrong

BTW Frontier is right off the interstate at exit 356, if you want to stop on your way to Nashville, it's worth a look.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Lumber_Jack

[Dolomite_supafly]

Look around, Frontier is far from being the cheapest place to shop for firearms. South Clinton Pawn Shop in Clinton is a reasonably priced shop. They also have a decent selection. As far as selection goes check into Mike's Gun shop in Tazewell. They are a small shop but have an amazing selection of guns with great prices.

Dolomite

[CM1021]

Thanks for all the help guys!! I will be checking around to see what all I can find...

[Lumber_Jack]

Look around, Frontier is far from being the cheapest place to shop for firearms. South Clinton Pawn Shop in Clinton is a reasonably priced shop. They also have a decent selection. As far as selection goes check into Mike's Gun shop in Tazewell. They are a small shop but have an amazing selection of guns with great prices.

Dolomite

I wouldn't say it's far from the cheapest. That insinuates that its way overpriced. $619 for the GI ESP is not over priced. But buy all means shop around. I was just posting for reference, I've got no pony in the race. South Clinton would be a ways out of the way on a trip from tri-cities to Nashville tho.

[Guest buttonhook]

To dolomite's point about cost, with 3% and $5 insurance, you are at $601.37 + $10 for background + $50 FFL transfer fee, for the beavertail model. The cheapest I've seen in Knoxville is at Frontier Firearms for $619 cash + %9.25 tax+ $10 background

So

Buds = $661.00

Frontier= $686.25

To me I'd rather spend 25 extra and take it home that day, others may disagree, you might also find a cheaper FFL Fee to add some savings

Someone check me if I'm wrong

BTW Frontier is right off the interstate at exit 356, if you want to stop on your way to Nashville, it's worth a look.

$50 Transfer fee!!!!!!!!!! WOW I hope you get some lube!!!! I would n't pay more than $20!! and I didnt have to pay a $5 shipping insurance fee from buds......so I dont know what all of that is from

total from buds would be like $631 not $661

Edited January 8, 2011 by buttonhook

[Lumber_Jack]

$50 Transfer fee!!!!!!!!!! WOW I hope you get some lube!!!! I would n't pay more than $20!! and I didnt have to pay a $5 shipping insurance fee from buds......so I dont know what all of that is from

total from buds would be like $631 not $661

Who only charges 20? Coal creek is $25 for guns they don't stock, $50 for ones they do. I'm not sure what Gunnies charges. Vie never bought online, just stating from signs in stores.

[Mad_Squirrell]

We are going to start seeing higher transfer fees on guns A buddy of mine that owns a shop says places like buds are putting him and other small shops out of business and they are starting to charge more for the transfer fee because they cant compete on final price once sales tax is figured into the mix . He charges $50 bucks for most transfers and $75 for some others . I don't remember his criteria for the different rates .

I.E. take a 1000 dollar gun ordered from Buds and a shop sells the gun for the same price .

assuming free shipping and paying with a check to keep figures simple.

buds= $1000 for gun . + 25 dollars for FFL transfer +10 background check = 1035

local shop= $1000 for gun . +9% state and local sales tax + background check = 1100

for all the same work .

I like the prices buds has but because of taxes our local guys are forced to cut their profits to compete or charge more for transfers to recoup some of the loss . for all the same work the only benefit to them in the transaction is they have no capitol tied up in inventory . i can see their complaint .

Support local business or big box stores like Academy ,Sportsman's whse ,Bass pro etc. will eventually be all we have to choose from.

[Guest buttonhook]

Who only charges 20? Coal creek is $25 for guns they don't stock, $50 for ones they do. I'm not sure what Gunnies charges. Vie never bought online, just stating from signs in stores.

bills will charge you $20

[Lumber_Jack]

bills will charge you $20

Never been there have to check it out.

I think we may have derailed the thread from original intent

[CM1021]

Talked to a local.shop today and he said he would do 650 out the door for the gi expert with the beavertail safety ...is this a good deal?

[Lumber_Jack]

Talked to a local.shop today and he said he would do 650 out the door for the gi expert with the beavertail safety ...is this a good deal?

MSRP is $699, so I expect any gun shop to be well below that. Out the door, is tax and back ground included so that means the gun price is $595 + $55 tax +$10 backcheck. That seems pretty good to me, I don't know if you'll be able to find that gun much cheaper. The cheapest is buds which we have discussed. I just think you need to decide if that's the gun for you, if so I think its a good price

BTW what shop are you dealing with, don't worry im not gonna snatch it out fro under you

[CM1021]

MSRP is $699, so I expect any gun shop to be well below that. Out the door, is tax and back ground included so that means the gun price is $595 + $55 tax +$10 backcheck. That seems pretty good to me, I don't know if you'll be able to find that gun much cheaper. The cheapest is buds which we have discussed. I just think you need to decide if that's the gun for you, if so I think its a good price

BTW what shop are you dealing with, don't worry im not gonna snatch it out fro under you

That's from gun runners a class 3 we have up here and he's not.got one in stock so you couldn't take it anyways lol he's gonna order one for me possibly... he said he has another 1911 coming in next week he thinks I will like a little cheaper

[Lumber_Jack]

That's from gun runners a class 3 we have up here and he's not.got one in stock so you couldn't take it anyways lol he's gonna order one for me possibly... he said he has another 1911 coming in next week he thinks I will like a little cheaper

I've not been up there, you live in Kingsport? Might check tri-cities gun depot in Elizabethton, it's a little drive from Bristol or Kingsport but I have heard lots of good things. What does he have com in in, maybe we have opinions on that model too

[CM1021]

I think he said ati or something like that

[Lumber_Jack]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/show-tell/48196-my-new-edc.html

I had a notion, check out this thread. They make a nice pistol, it also come in parkerized garyish black, and have 5" models as well. I would lean towards it over the Para, I believe you get a better fit and finish for less money. The ATI is made in the phillippines, that doesn't matter to me but does to some.

[CM1021]

That looks nice...so you would pick the ati over the para? Is para made in the u.s.?

[Lumber_Jack]

I believe it's assembled in NC, but I don't know much about where th parts come from. I like the ATI, there have been some reports with minor problems with some, like failure to feed or failure to eject, but as you will find all 1911 can have those problems, even the Para. The Titan in the thread is 3" model, I'm not a fan of 1911 that short. They have a special 2 spring recoil system that can be problematic (earlier mentioned). I would consider the FX GI Model. It's a commander length, and I have fired one personally and it was nice, no slide play, solid fit. See here ( Products ) These guns are usually priced in the $500 dollar range.

[CM1021]

I am undecided really...If the guns are only about 50 bucks apart I definately go with the para...but if there's a hundred or more difference I might hafta go with the ATI...I liked the thunderbolt they offer but thats getting up there more than the para....I looked at the dealers computer today when he showed me the gun and it said cost was like $515...that sound about right?

[JPS]

I have an ATI Titan - I think it's a great gun, especially for the price. Mine has been flawless, except when I screwed something up. (Which gave me an opportunity to find out first hand about ATI's excellent customer service...)