Gun certification class? Is this necessary?

[Guest PatriotCSA]

I was checking out RangeUSA's HCP class page and I see that it is $75 which is fine. But I also see an "Add-a-gun" class where you get "certified" on particular firearms. It warns about prosecuting attorneys going after you for not using guns you are "certified" with.

I am not being critical, just wondering if this is necessary. A lot of us go through guns on a regular basis and the state doesn't require any certification with the gun(s) you carry. Is this a real big issue with people who have to defend themselves?

[Mike.357]

Sounds like a ploy to try to make money.

There is no law in TN designating what handgun you may or may not carry.

[VERO1]

I am thinking it would be about as much use as an HCP Badge.

[JeffL]

First I've heard of it in TN. Sounds silly as hell to me.

[Guest rsgillmd]

I was curious so I looked at the description. It does say clearly that it is not necessary, but then words the rest of the paragraph as to scare the reader. I would rather use that money for range time or put it towards advanced training. But they are a business, and as such want to make money. There must be enough nervous people out there willing to do it, otherwise they wouldn't offer the "class."

The people at RangeUSA seem like good people to me, and I really liked the Intro to Shotguns class I took with Chip Holland.

Also I bet many people qualify with rented guns.

Edited January 7, 2011 by rsgillmd

[Oh Shoot]

This topic came up here sometime in the past couple years, but can't remember if it's the same place.

Best I remember, the instructor posted it, was offering "re-qualification" with a different gun with same pitch, to CYA legally.

- OS

[Guest 270win]

I don't see the need, since you don't have to qualify with what you carry in Tennessee or requal. I had to qualify with a semiauto in Arkansas to carry a semiauto or revolver. If I just qualified with a revolver, I couldn't carry a semiauto. You have to requal in Arkansas when you renew. It is just a game to make money for the ranges/instructors. Thankfully, Tennessee is not that stupid and wasteful of my time and money. I can use the money to buy more ammo instead of paying someone to 'requal' me for the state police.

[Guest Jamie]

When Tennessee first started issuing permits, you were only allowed to carry one gun; the one you qualified with. It was listed on your permit, and if you changed guns, you had to go re-qualify.

That requirement didn't last long, nor did having to carry a $50,000 bond, which was also originally part of the deal.

So I don't see where it would be necessary to re-visit any of that, since the state already tried it and decided against it. It just sounds like somebody trying to make a little extra money off of some people's paranoia, to me.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Jamie

[tnhawk]

As the TN training record and HCP doesn't show what you used to qualify, there could be no need to update it. Remaining up to date on the laws is necessary as ignorance of them isn't a acceptable defense to a judge.

[Garufa]

As the TN training record and HCP doesn't show what you used to qualify, there could be no need to update it. Remaining up to date on the laws is necessary as ignorance of them isn't a acceptable defense to a judge.

Up until a couple of years ago instructors were required to record the make and serial number of the gun used in class. I would need to pull out my certificate but that information was on it as well as the copy submitted with HCP application, so there is a record of it somewhere for many of us. Whether or not the state recorded the info who knows?

It's irrelevant nevertheless.

[Guest RevScottie]

While I don't support any law requiring certification there are some people who could really use it. Like people who who take the HCP class using a Ruger single action .22 and then carry an airweight .357 without having ever fired it.

[Fallguy]

Necessary No. ...and to be honest I never saw the point. But as others have pointed out the law has changed and now there is no information about the handgun you used in the HCP class, so for those that have got one after that point don't see how it could come up later.

[Guest Tygarys]

Rangemaster does (or at least did) this as well.

[bigwakes]

I took my permit class at Range USA in 2000 and they did record the pistol I shot for the HCP. I went with my wife when she got hers in 2003 and again this year after her first permit expired. Both of the other shops were in Middle TN and did not record the gun she fired. Either the law changed about them recording it or Range USA was trying to convince people that it matters to up sell the requal class.

[Fallguy]

To be fair in the Handgun Safety Course rules http://www.tennessee.gov/sos/rules/1340/1340-02/1340-02-03.pdf

Rule 1340-2-3-.05(10) says:

Qualification with more than one (1) handgun:

(a) If, while undergoing the handgun safety instruction, a student desires to qualify with a

different make, model or caliber of handgun, they are required only to take the four (4) hour

range instructional portion of the Handgun Safety Course; and

(

A certificate of completion will be completed under the provisions of 1340-2-3-.11.

Now whether that rule will change in the next revision I'm not sure. The copy of the rules online are from 2001 and don't include the new Alcohol Awarness requirment in the class. So when they revise them, they may remove the above rule.

[Justbo1901]

Up until a couple of years ago instructors were required to record the make and serial number of the gun used in class. I would need to pull out my certificate but that information was on it as well as the copy submitted with HCP application, so there is a record of it somewhere for many of us. Whether or not the state recorded the info who knows?

It's irrelevant nevertheless.

not sure when the law changed but I took my hcp class about 2 1/2 years ago and on my certificate from the class in which had a carbon copy to give when I applied it had the model and caliber of the gun I used. so maybe its not required but It was put on mine. My mother is going next month to take hers maybe I will look on her certificate and see if they still write in on there

[Oh Shoot]

not sure when the law changed but I took my hcp class about 2 1/2 years ago and on my certificate from the class in which had a carbon copy to give when I applied it had the model and caliber of the gun I used. so maybe its not required but It was put on mine. My mother is going next month to take hers maybe I will look on her certificate and see if they still write in on there

As has been stated, law changed.

I believe during the 2009 legislative year.

- OS

[Links2k]

When Tennessee first started issuing permits, you were only allowed to carry one gun; the one you qualified with. It was listed on your permit, and if you changed guns, you had to go re-qualify.

That requirement didn't last long, nor did having to carry a $50,000 bond, which was also originally part of the deal.

So I don't see where it would be necessary to re-visit any of that, since the state already tried it and decided against it. It just sounds like somebody trying to make a little extra money off of some people's paranoia, to me.

Don't forget that your weapon also had to be double action to qualify. SCSO required that way back when.

[bigwakes]

I think some TGO attornies can speak to this, but seems like it might give a civil case some backbone if you carry a different gun than you qulified with. I obviously am not that worried since I never requaled with a .40 and got the permit with a 9mm.

[Garufa]

Since I qualified with a .40 then I can easily carry 9mm or smaller as they are far less powerful and the jury would look favorably on that.

[mikegideon]

I think some TGO attornies can speak to this, but seems like it might give a civil case some backbone if you carry a different gun than you qulified with. I obviously am not that worried since I never requaled with a .40 and got the permit with a 9mm.

Is it just me, or do we sometimes spend more time worrying about lawyers than we do about bad guys? What's the best bullet to keep me safe from a lawsuit? If I improve the performance of my weapon, is that a sign that I'm a brutal killer? If I shoot a thug in his gold tooth, have my skills been honed to the point that it was unfair to the thug? Should I have warned him that I'm really good at this before I pulled the trigger?

[Guest gw2and4]

Is it just me, or do we sometimes spend more time worrying about lawyers than we do about bad guys? What's the best bullet to keep me safe from a lawsuit? If I improve the performance of my weapon, is that a sign that I'm a brutal killer? If I shoot a thug in his gold tooth, have my skills been honed to the point that it was unfair to the thug? Should I have warned him that I'm really good at this before I pulled the trigger?

+1 :rofl:

[Fallguy]

not sure when the law changed but I took my hcp class about 2 1/2 years ago and on my certificate from the class in which had a carbon copy to give when I applied it had the model and caliber of the gun I used. so maybe its not required but It was put on mine. My mother is going next month to take hers maybe I will look on her certificate and see if they still write in on there

If they even ask for it they are breaking the law, so I hope they don't ask for it or record it anywhere.

Don't forget that your weapon also had to be double action to qualify. SCSO required that way back when.

Where does it say that a handgun must be double action? I don't think it says that in the law or rules anywhere.

I think some TGO attornies can speak to this, but seems like it might give a civil case some backbone if you carry a different gun than you qulified with. I obviously am not that worried since I never requaled with a .40 and got the permit with a 9mm.

Don't see how now, since there is no record of the type gun you used to get your permit., But this has been discussed at length in other threads.

Is it just me, or do we sometimes spend more time worrying about lawyers than we do about bad guys? What's the best bullet to keep me safe from a lawsuit? If I improve the performance of my weapon, is that a sign that I'm a brutal killer? If I shoot a thug in his gold tooth, have my skills been honed to the point that it was unfair to the thug? Should I have warned him that I'm really good at this before I pulled the trigger?

No, not just you does seem to be a hot topic at times...lol

[Just2Honor]

As I understood my instructor, TN certificates no longer required required him to record your weapon once he used up all the old certificates he had been issued by the Public Safety. They are serial numbered so he had to enter the weapon on some in the class but not all of us. Nowhe nolonger will do it for anyone.

[robbiev]

Where does it say that a handgun must be double action? I don't think it says that in the law or rules anywhere.

I don't really want to speak for anyone else, but I think he was saying it was that way years ago when the Sheriff's Office was involved in issuing permits, there was a list of certain models that were allowed and you couldn't carry anything other than what was on that list, and then only if you had qualified with it.

It seems like when the permits first went state wide, that carried over, but I don't remember exactly. I first got my permit in mid-1996, and it was NOT like that at that time. They did list what gun you qualified with, but it was not required that you carry only that gun.

Edited March 2, 2011 by robbiev