GLOCK 19

[graycrait]

Another good thing besides size, reliability, durability, parts everywhere in the rare case you need one is that the 19, or any Glock, can have its frame altered to pllease you instead of you having to adapt to the factory profile.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Put a Glock 23 in your hands and you'll forget all about that 19 nonsense.

very true...

[DWARREN123]

Glock 20, once you go 10mm you will never go back.

The compact Glocks are great, a little too small for me but good guns.

[TGO David]

And yet 1911's have been to numerous wars, the Glocks to none.

- OS

Simply not true. The Glock 19 has seen a lot of use in Iraq among the contractors. Further it is the most ubiquitous 9mm police sidearm around the globe, at least according to Glock's own marketing propaganda ... which in this case I would tend to believe.

As for the finger grooves, those are sadly an answer to a question that only Glock seemed to have heard anyone ask. I understand the reason why they are there, I just do not believe that they were truly necessary.

[kesava]

And yet 1911's have been to numerous wars, the Glocks to none.

- OS

I don't know what you consider war, but the Policia Federal and Mexican Army choose Glock 19's. It's not 100% but I haven't seen any of them with anything else. I consulted the ever debatable wiki and it confirmed my experiences. So take it for what it's worth. They have many a shoot out on a daily basis and they trust Glock. They do have access the HK's, but many choose Glock. That says a lot to me.

[Oh Shoot]

Simply not true. The Glock 19 has seen a lot of use in Iraq among the contractors. Further it is the most ubiquitous 9mm police sidearm around the globe, at least according to Glock's own marketing propaganda ... which in this case I would tend to believe....

All true.

Just meaning it has never been the military issued firearm for any country that has been in shooting conflict.

Looks like it IS the issued sidearm of the Austrian army, no surprise. So if they had troops in on the Iraq international alliance thing, then that might "count".

As for the finger grooves, those are sadly an answer to a question that only Glock seemed to have heard anyone ask.

Yeah, even though I settled in on XD and have three, kinda thought I might pick up a G19 sometime, just to pad out the arsenal with one of the greatest all around firearms ever made. By the time I got around to it, the finger grooves say no. I'd have to settle for a much older used gun.

Even when I was trying to decide between XD subbie and G26 for carry, another reason the XD got the nod because the single finger groove "separator" on the 26 didn't feel as good, even though unlike the 19, there IS room for the middle finger. Although I guess the 26/27 had this from the gitgo, wasn't added in a "generational" change.

- OS

Edited January 9, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest Big-A]

All true.

Just meaning it has never been the military issued firearm for any country that has been in shooting conflict.

Looks like it IS the issued sidearm of the Austrian army, no surprise. So if they had troops in on the Iraq international alliance thing, then that might "count".

Yeah, even though I settled in on XD and have three, kinda thought I might pick up a G19 sometime, just to pad out the arsenal with one of the greatest all around firearms ever made. By the time I got around to it, the finger grooves say no. I'd have to settle for a much older used gun.

The 601st special forces of Czech Republic have been using the 17 with an od frame since 2006. They have proved thier reliabilty in Afghanistan passing with flying colors. Wonder why they dont use the Cz 75b? They are made in the Czech Republic

Edited January 10, 2011 by Big-A
miss spell

[ftncityfatboy]

Well after all, I did start this thread therefore I feel obligated to contribute yet again. Saturday I started working part time for a local firearms store here in West Knoxville. I will not mention their name so's not to be charged with promoting an unauthorized vendor. This store, even though often trashed on this site, is a Glock distributor. Two of the three pistols I sold this weekend were Glocks. One a G19, the other a G19RTF Gen 4. As I have stated previously, Glocks sell, people like them, they are durable, and they go bang. All that sells.....will I buy one, most likely not. Why, because I am pistol heavy and don't know which I would sell in order to obtain one. And, there is just not that much difference in them and the Springers other than parts accessibility. I will keep my Springers and I will be happy to sell you a Glock, after all - it IS a matter of preference and what feels right in your hands. Funny though, women don't seem to have the fascination with them as men do, hummmm....

[TGO David]

Eh... this is going to piss some people off and inspire debate of religious proportions, but I do not consider the Springfield XD to be a true duty-grade sidearm. The Glock, yes. The M&P, yes. XD... not so much.

Your personal sensitivities toward such things may vary.

[Guest Bronker]

Eh... this is going to piss some people off and inspire debate of religious proportions, but I do not consider the Springfield XD to be a true duty-grade sidearm. The Glock, yes. The M&P, yes. XD... not so much.

Your personal sensitivities toward such things may vary.

Curious. Why?

[TGO David]

Curious. Why?

Key word there is duty grade. Enthusiast grade? Sure. Carry grade? Meh. Duty grade? Nope. My reasons are both personal and practical. Personally I've had two XD's break down on me while being run hard. I've also broken several firing pin indicator roll pins just from shooting the gun. While not a show-stopper, it raised concerns. Further, the funky grip safety makes it very difficult to do certain one-handed (wounded) reloading drills. The grip safety is great marketing propaganda to 1911 enthusiasts but otherwise useless, IMO.

I know the Smyrna SWAT guys did/do carry the XD45 so Todd might disagree with my assessment that they aren't exactly duty grade firearms. I just think that there are better weapons with less complexity for people who will absolutely depend on them in the worst possible of circumstances.

[JeffL]

I know the Smyrna SWAT guys did/do carry the XD45 so Todd might disagree with my assessment that they aren't exactly duty grade firearms. I just think that there are better weapons with less complexity for people who will absolutely depend on them in the worst possible of circumstances.

From the CIS class I took, they DID carry them. They ordered up some hot loaded .45 ammo and broke a couple of them. Dustin carries a Glock now.

[Guest CK1]

Eh... this is going to piss some people off and inspire debate of religious proportions, but I do not consider the Springfield XD to be a true duty-grade sidearm. The Glock, yes. The M&P, yes. XD... not so much.

Your personal sensitivities toward such things may vary.

Key word there is duty grade. Enthusiast grade? Sure. Carry grade? Meh. Duty grade? Nope. My reasons are both personal and practical. Personally I've had two XD's break down on me while being run hard. I've also broken several firing pin indicator roll pins just from shooting the gun. While not a show-stopper, it raised concerns. Further, the funky grip safety makes it very difficult to do certain one-handed (wounded) reloading drills. The grip safety is great marketing propaganda to 1911 enthusiasts but otherwise useless, IMO.

I tend to agree with David, but in-context I'd go further, using his criteria, I wouldn't consider M&P's "duty-grade" either.

I've owned 4 of them and out of those had 3 broken strikers and 1 faulty extractor and also have seen at least 3 different ones go "click" instead of "bang" at IDPA matches (where while they're popular, you'd be hard pressed to find any halfway serious competitor shooting them who doesn't also have a spare striker and trigger-return-spring in their range bag). It's not a stretch to argue that there are at least as many, if not more issues floating around out there with M&P's as XD's.

Also, as an aside, duty-wise speaking of course, sooner or later someone's going to challenge the legitimacy of S&W's claim that they're actually a DAO-design and not SAO like the XD's are considered... and anyone who's taken a look at how they work or tore one down knows it's quite probable that it might not play out well for S&W or the agencies that have adopted them if it was to get hard pressed in a court of law like in the case of a lethal force shooting civil lawsuit.

That said, all guns break from time to time, just seems the Block's break least often...

[Guest gw2and4]

Eh... this is going to piss some people off and inspire debate of religious proportions, but I do not consider the Springfield XD to be a true duty-grade sidearm. The Glock, yes. The M&P, yes. XD... not so much.

Your personal sensitivities toward such things may vary.

[TGO David]

I tend to agree with David, but in-context I'd go further, using his criteria, I wouldn't consider M&P's "duty-grade" either.

I've owned 4 of them and out of those had 3 broken strikers and 1 faulty extractor and also have seen at least 3 different ones go "click" instead of "bang" at IDPA matches (where while they're popular, you'd be hard pressed to find any halfway serious competitor shooting them who doesn't also have a spare striker and trigger-return-spring in their range bag). It's not a stretch to argue that there are at least as many, if not more issues floating around out there with M&P's as XD's.

The M&P has had a few revisions and a stronger firing pin introduced, so I'd say that any of those issues you're still seeing currently are from guns that haven't been fitted with the improved parts. Sort of like the Glock 19 G4 or the G23 G3 when it first came out. Teething problems. Smith & Wesson is very aggressive about addressing the few faults with the M&P series when they are made evident and are proven not to just be a fluke.

Anything man-made is going to have problems. It's just what the maker(s) do with those problems that determines the Warm Fuzzy Factor that I have for the item in question. Springfield seems to pretty much ignore the issues that I mentioned and flatly refused to send me a sear block claiming it wasn't a user serviceable part.

I've had some issues with the M&P family along the line but my 40 has been rock solid every single step of the way, and S&W was quick to fix the others and they never gave me an ounce of problem afterward. Mostly with the compact models, too. Kind of odd, really.

[Guest CK1]

The M&P has had a few revisions and a stronger firing pin introduced, so I'd say that any of those issues you're still seeing currently are from guns that haven't been fitted with the improved parts. Sort of like the Glock 19 G4 or the G23 G3 when it first came out. Teething problems. Smith & Wesson is very aggressive about addressing the few faults with the M&P series when they are made evident and are proven not to just be a fluke.

Anything man-made is going to have problems. It's just what the maker(s) do with those problems that determines the Warm Fuzzy Factor that I have for the item in question. Springfield seems to pretty much ignore the issues that I mentioned and flatly refused to send me a sear block claiming it wasn't a user serviceable part.

I've had some issues with the M&P family along the line but my 40 has been rock solid every single step of the way, and S&W was quick to fix the others and they never gave me an ounce of problem afterward. Mostly with the compact models, too. Kind of odd, really.

Agreed.

...though in the case of the Gen4 Glock's I think there's more to it than that... "teething problems" is being too kind, IMO it's more like flat-out "not ready/rushed to the marketplace" (at least with the 9mm's)...

[Erik88]

Key word there is duty grade. Enthusiast grade? Sure. Carry grade? Meh. Duty grade? Nope. My reasons are both personal and practical. Personally I've had two XD's break down on me while being run hard.

as both a glock owner and XD owner I like things about both guns. My XD .40 Subcompact has been flawless through probably 800 rounds. I'm curious to know what constitutes being "run hard"'? What exactly does that mean? Are we just talking about a range session where you run hundreds of rounds through the gun.

Also, don't you think it's a little hypocritical to say that XD's aren't duty-grade when you have had failures from your S&W's also? Why is it acceptable for them to fail but not the XD's?

maybe acceptable isn't the best word but.....makes sense right?****

Edited January 10, 2011 by Erik88

[Will Carry]

I am very happy with my Glock 19 gen 4. I didn't buy it as an expression of art. I bought it for self defense. It's easy to carry and shoot plus it has never failed to fire.

It is the only 9mm I own since I gave my Sigma away, for free, just to get rid of it.

[Guest Bronker]

I'm curious to know what constitutes being "run hard"'? What exactly does that mean? Are we just talking about a range session where you run hundreds of rounds through the gun...

I'll interject here. I remain a big XD fan as well, having owned and carried several. I trusted the platform for many years. Still do.

The turning point for me was during a defensive pistol class a couple years ago. Twice, in a rapid-draw weapon deployment scenario, I failed to get a strong enough combat grip on the XD, and had a 'no-go' because of the grip safety. Had to go for a costly 're-grip' of it to make it fire. Notice I said "I failed..." Operator error. I admit. Had NOTHING to do with the weapon. I have over the years had a few misfires and FTF with an XD. SFSG with Glock.

However...it was one additional thing I shall, God forbid, have to take into account in a scenario where my reaction will likely require speed and automatic precision---the lack of either possibly resulting in me being behind the curve. I couldn't deal with that. So, I reluctantly bought my first Glock and have never looked back. I wouldn't dare say that the Glock is the superior weapon. In the hands of a novice with adrenaline receptors firing synapse after synapse in short order, it likely wouldn't make a difference which one I had, but I don't need to have it flash in the back of my mind, recalling that this grip-safety is one more thing to worry about.

Just me.

[TGO David]

as both a glock owner and XD owner I like things about both guns. My XD .40 Subcompact has been flawless through probably 800 rounds. I'm curious to know what constitutes being "run hard"'? What exactly does that mean? Are we just talking about a range session where you run hundreds of rounds through the gun.

Also, don't you think it's a little hypocritical to say that XD's aren't duty-grade when you have had failures from your S&W's also? Why is it acceptable for them to fail but not the XD's?

maybe acceptable isn't the best word but.....makes sense right?****

I'm guessing you wrote this before you read my follow-up post explaining why I feel the way that I do about the XD?