Is it possible????????????

[leroy]

Federal XM193C less than 30 cents a round shipped for M193 if you order 1000.

This is a good deal. We use Starch processed primed brass (...about 15 cents each...), whatever good polymer tipped bullet is on sale (....about 15 cents each...), and ball powder (....about 8 cents per load...). Cost: 38 cents each, plus your time. When ya reload with your old brass it becomes: bullet (...15 cents...), powder (...8 cents...), primer (....4 cents...). Total: 27 cents, plus your time. You can use the mil spec bullets and the numbers become: bullet (...10 cents...), powder (...8 cents...), primer (...4 cents...). total: 22 cents plus your labor.

leroy

[Raoul]

This is a good deal. We use Starch processed primed brass (...about 15 cents each...), whatever good polymer tipped bullet is on sale (....about 15 cents each...), and ball powder (....about 8 cents per load...). Cost: 38 cents each, plus your time. When ya reload with your old brass it becomes: bullet (...15 cents...), powder (...8 cents...), primer (....4 cents...). Total: 27 cents, plus your time. You can use the mil spec bullets and the numbers become: bullet (...10 cents...), powder (...8 cents...), primer (...4 cents...). total: 22 cents plus your labor.

leroy

And let's not forget, reloading gives us something to do in the winter.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have shot a lot of the Tula steel cased ammo from WM without a single hiccup. It chronos at about 2850 out of a 16" gun. The steel cases are boxer primers so reloading them is possible. They feed and cycle well and are accurate enough for what I would use it for, plinking ammo.

I have reloaded steel cases before. I did it because I was told by several "experts" that after the second or third loading the steel would work harden and fail, blowing my gun up. What they said didn't make sense so I had to try it. I quit after loading each steel case 8 times with no ill effects. I will say that steel cases do not grow like brass cases do. After resizing and trimming the cases they never needed another trim and were easier, effort wise, to FL size than brass cases. The steel is as soft as brass as well. When I did trim them the steel cases produced shavings that were identical to the brass except they were steel. This tells me that the steel is similar in softness to brass.

With that being said would I choose steel over brass, NO. The brass doesn't corrode like the steel does. Even though the steel seems as good as brass I still like brass. In a pinch I might use steel but that would have to be after I have worn out the 2K-3K pieces of brass I have now. Considering I can easily get 5 loadings each at a minimum and closer to 10 each I probably will never need to use steel.

If you reload you can build match grade ammunition for the cost of most commercial plinking ammo. My 69 grain SMK loadings cost me .28 each and provide accuracy in the .4"-.5" range at 100 yards. I have yet to try some factory ammo that can match its performance, even the go to ammo match ammo.

Dolomite

[Lumber_Jack]

Don’t use steel case or lacquer coated ammo unless you like working on your gun.

For reloading? Or just for shooting?

Shooting

DaveTN,

Care to elabirate as to why this is harmful to an AR?

I have a tendancy to believe those that say they have run 2-3k with no problem, ie Dolomite.

[Dolomite_supafly]

DaveTN,

Care to elabirate as to why this is harmful to an AR?

I have a tendancy to believe those that say they have run 2-3k with no problem, ie Dolomite.

I do not have 2k-3k through my rifle yet but I do have enough of the steel cased Tula ammo though it to feel comfortable with it. A friend bought some and they worked fine for him so I gave them a try. I bought a few boxes and they worked fine for me as well. Since then I have fired them through every mag I own to make sure they cycle.

I think all of the steel cased problems people are talking about come from Wolf when it first started showing up here. It was dirty, underpowered ammo that did cause a lot of problems. Now there are people who are getting thousands of rounds of Wolf through there guns without even cleaning. If steel cased ammo was so bad the AK's would be having some serious issues and they don't. Yes they were designed to use steel cased from the begining but if steel ammo was so bad it would eventually show up in AK's. I have seen real AK's with dates from the 50's that were well used and obviously had a lot more rounds through them than we will probably ever put through our guns. Those still fired just fine and were still reasonably accurate out to 350 yards.

I have had problems out of brass cased ammo as well, the worst being the Servian M193 that was being sold a few years ago. It would stick cases a lot in our guns and required the use of a rod and hammer to dislodge it. It was so bad our company said to get rid of it.

The biggest problem with steel cased ammo is the coatings used on the cases. They can melt when your gun gets really hot leaving deposits in the chamber. I never got my AR really hot so that may be my reason for me not having any problems. I suspect this is what was happening when people were saying steel cased ammo was messing up their chambers. Zinc melts at a little over 400 degrees, if a round were to be chambered and the zinc melted then the gun was allowed to cool it would probably stick itself pretty good. For training I would not have a problem using steel cased ammo, you can get more rounds fired per dollar and practice is more important to me. Even if they do have some reliability issues in your gun all that does is make you practice malfuntion drills.

I might try to induce a problem using Tula ammo. If I can it will be the first problem I have ever had with my rifle. It was built by me about 6 years ago and has had a lot of rounds fired out of it. I have used a Ciener conversion for around 15K rimfire rounds during training. I probably have 2K-3K of .223/5.56 through it now without a single hiccup. The only things I have replaced so far is the trigger and disconnect. I replace various springs on a regular interval before they fail but the most common I have seen cause problems for others is the extractor spring. It becomes weak over time because of the heat cycles it goes through.

Dolomite

[Lumber_Jack]

I do not have 2k-3k through my rifle yet

Dolomite

Sorry to misquote, I read it wrong. Thanks for info on possible steel case problems

[Backon4]

I've got at least 2k through mine. Stay away from the lacquer coated and get the poly coated. You won't have any issues. I plan on getting a hand loader in 223 to make some hunting rounds with them. It will be a little while because I just bought a couple new toys though.

[Lumber_Jack]

I've got at least 2k through mine. Stay away from the lacquer coated and get the poly coated. You won't have any issues. I plan on getting a hand loader in 223 to make some hunting rounds with them. It will be a little while because I just bought a couple new toys though.

How do you know the difference between lacquer coated and poly? By brand, or does it say on the box?

[Backon4]

The lacquer is shiny and a brownish color the poly is flat gray

[Guest buttonhook]

I did have problems with the tula cycling. It would not cycle in my ar I think there might be other factors involed as well like the muzzle brake, the heavy buffer, and the fact that it was brand new. but the federal and the PMC has cycled perfectly. I could have gotten a bad batch of the tula I guess but with as much money as the ar costs to build i think I'll just shoot a little better ammo than the tula

[Mike]

Don’t use steel case or lacquer coated ammo unless you like working on your gun.

Why is this, Dave? I've heard everything from wearing the extractor out to deforming the chamber dimensions. I've never seen anything empirical that would suggest that it does anything to actually damage the rifle.

As to the fouling, I've said in the past, if your rifle won't run dirty you need to seriously re-evaluate it's position in your inventory.

The biggest problem with steel cased ammo is the coatings used on the cases. They can melt when your gun gets really hot leaving deposits in the chamber. I never got my AR really hot so that may be my reason for me not having any problems. I suspect this is what was happening when people were saying steel cased ammo was messing up their chambers. Zinc melts at a little over 400 degrees, if a round were to be chambered and the zinc melted then the gun was allowed to cool it would probably stick itself pretty good. For training I would not have a problem using steel cased ammo, you can get more rounds fired per dollar and practice is more important to me. Even if they do have some reliability issues in your gun all that does is make you practice malfuntion drills.

I've never had an issue with lacquer melting. I shoot Barnaul Brown Bear almost exclusively in my AR for training. Current round count is at 5k with no cleaning. I've had the rifle too hot to touch comfortably with gloves and still no issues.

Mike

Edited January 9, 2011 by Mike

[Guest buttonhook]

if you run your gun hot the lacquer can melt and coat the chamber of the gun and over time the lacquer can build up causing feeding or extraction problems