jurisdiction question, City police on the interstate.

[vontar]

I want to ask a jurisdiction question but lets be careful and not turn this into any type of LEO bashing, that is not my intent.

I know in general State Troopers don't issue to many speeding tickets in towns and cities, most on the interstates and sometimes on county roads. Not sure about county sheriff deputies, last one I personally knew told me that county did not have radar guns because "writing speeding tickets did not get the Sheriff re-elected".

My question is more about City Police and interstate highways. I am going to try to leave the city out of this, but lets say the very small city only has 1 set of ramps on and off. Yet, they do go up on the interstate and write speeding tickets, mainly on a down hill run.

I was just wondering if it is legit for them to go up on the interstate and write speeding tickets, this is a section of interstate I know well and lets say there are no City limit signs, such as you are entering the city of . I have not got a ticket by them nor do I know anyone that has got a ticket so I don't really have a dog in this. However it seems a bit on the edge that they go up on the interstate to write tickets. I want to leave this city out as I don't want to start anything directly with the city. I drive though this one at often.

I have seen them up their writing tickets enough that perhaps they should have to post a City Limits sign on the interstate to let people know when they are entering that city and that speed limits are enforced by radar guns just like they have when you enter that city from the county road. Maybe they should have to help the state with the repair costs of that section of interstate as well.

This is just an isolated place which is why I don't want to call it out, for all I know some of the LEO's might be members here. I know they are probably just doing what they are told.

BTW, I have seen other city police cars just east of Nashville, some where between Nashville and Cookville about a month ago on 2 different days. I didn't get the city of those cars but lets just say we were not even close to a city at that time, in fact if they had wrote me a ticket I would have quested whether or not I was inside any city limits or not.

[GhstFace38]

I'm a city police officer and I'm on the interstate quite a bit... Though Memphis is no small town.

To answer your question; if a city's lines include a section of an interstate than that city's law enforcement can enforce traffic laws on their section of the interstate.

Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

[vontar]

BTW, I got carried away with writing, I guess I may have forgot to put my question in.

Does it seem to be in a city's jurisdiction to write speeding tickets on interstates? Seems they should be in the city doing what is needed around town, even if it is a small town.

[vontar]

Ghstface38, I totally understand a large city like Memphis, Knoxville, Nashville and others that have multiple ramps, sometimes multiple interstate exchanges. I know it is not uncommon to drive though Knoxville and see city police on those interstate roads. I guess it seems another thing a city of 2,500 people (from the 2000 census) using their one set of ramps to access the interstate to write tickets. However like you pointed out, I guess if it falls in their city limits it is fair game.

[TNRobocop]

Anything within the city limits is their jurisdiction. If they want to patrol the highway, then they will.

For all you know there might have been serious issues on the road such as wrecks, DUI's, or pedestrian/animal strikes.

Then again maybe people like to speed and they can write tickets to make revenue. Especially if they are from people from out of town, then that revenue will prevent the city from trying to raise taxes or fees to take care of their own citizens.

Long story short, people get pissy about getting tickets. Cops write tickets.

The way of the world.

[vontar]

OK, my questions have been answered.

It just stands out as I see it and I drive it often enough to see it. However I just pulled up a map of the area that shows the boundaries of the city. That section of interstate might be outside of the city unless they have annexed additional and since this map was drawn. I will dig into that further on my own, but would only need if I were to get a ticket by them there. Like I said I have not nor do I know anyone that has.

I have heard in recent years they may have annexed some land toward that direction so it is possible that map may not be current.

[Guest mcgyver210]

I don't remember all the details & I don't think it is enforced anymore but there was a dispute years ago about a small town city PD that was always on their small stretch of interstate & the State eventually told them they could no longer patrol it because of all the complaints from both civilians & LEOs. I really don't remember the details so I can't back up any part with proof other than at the time I was privy to it because I hung out with local LEOs.

[Guest Jamie]

The Sheriff here ran the State Troopers completely out of this county, except for the interstate, a decade or so back.

I don't know what the dispute was about, or how he managed it, but for a while the troopers weren't allowed in, even on the other state highways.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

You must be talking about Oliver Springs, Vontar.

[Guest mcgyver210]

The Sheriff here ran the State Troopers completely out of this county, except for the interstate, a decade or so back.

I don't know what the dispute was about, or how he managed it, but for a while the troopers weren't allowed in, even on the other state highways.

Same kind of thing happened when NMPD decided the DCS could no longer have emergency colored lights on their cruisers. I knew what happened at time but don't remember details. Jurisdiction cooperation is needed I think in allot of situations.

[GhstFace38]

I guess whether it is right or wrong is left up to the person pondering it. As far as I'm concerned the THP can have the interstate, there are too many idiots that'll clip you as you get out of your car.

Something I just thought of: Those small town officers MAY carry a county commission for the county their town is located. This would give them enforcement powers inside their city as well as the county. They could also pull down if the county needs help with calls, etc. In Fayette County, one county East of Shelby, the county and city guys all work off the same radio frequency.

[Guest Jamie]

Something I just thought of: Those small town officers MAY carry a county commission for the county their town is located. That way if the county needs help with calls, etc., the city guys can assist. In Fayette County, one county East of Shelby, the county and city guys all work off the same radio frequency.

Per my post in the other thread, what I was told was that a LE commission is good anywhere in the state it's issued, provided it meets state requirements. And I've never heard of a "county commission". I suppose the closest to that would be Constables, which are elected here, and I would assume required to meet state standards for LE officers.

Jurisdiction though, as I said, seems to be up to the individual agencies.

Never really researched it though, since that was and is well above my pay-grade.

I do know that anybody who thinks crossing a city or county line is a potential way to escape a ticket or arrest is in for a nasty surprise, 'cause the pursuing officer is probably not gonna stop.

[Garufa]

I do know that anybody who thinks crossing a city or county line is a potential way to escape a ticket or arrest is in for a nasty surprise, 'cause the pursuing officer is probably not gonna stop.

That is essentially what it all boils down to. You can even include University PD's in on that as well.

Regardless of the agency, if they start chasing, you will be caught.

[vontar]

You must be talking about Oliver Springs, Vontar.

nope.

[vontar]

Ghstface38

Those small town officers MAY carry a county commission for the county their town is located. This would give them enforcement powers inside their city as well as the county.

In the case I am thinking, I don't believe they do, as there is a pretty active county force as well. In fact I know the county uses that section of interstate to drive around the county as well.

[kb4ns]

First of all, all police officers have "general jurisdiction" anywhere up to a mile outside of their city limits with only a few exceptions. From TCA:

6-54-301. Extension of police authority beyond limits. —

The police authority of all incorporated towns and cities shall extend to a distance of one (1) mile from the lawful corporate limits thereof, for the suppression of all disorderly acts and practices forbidden by the general laws of the state; provided, that such jurisdiction of an incorporated town or city shall not be hereby extended beyond the limits of the county in which any part of such town is situated, or so as to come within one (1) mile of any other incorporated town or city.

Secondly, any certified LEO in TN carries his powers anywhere in the state. If I go to Knoxville, I can make an arrest the same as I can at home. The only issue is that I don't have the right "paperwork" for the arrest, be that the misdemeanor cite, affidavit, arrest ticket, or whatever used by the jurisdiction I am in. Also, I'm gonna have fun figuring out how/when to get to court. Luckily, there is another option. I could arrest the person and hand them over to another LEO in their jurisdiction and let them place the charges based off of my observations. If I was in Jackson TN in my squad car for a training class and clocked someone doing 55 in a 35, I could pull them over and let Jackson PD come write them a ticket based on my observations (not that I'd probably be so inclinded to do it, but it's perfectly legal). This part doesn't have as much to do with the OP's question, but I figured I'd throw it out there in case anyone was curious.

Thirdly, to address what GhostFace38 was talking about... some city officers, usually investigators, have deputy commissions issued from the Sheriff. That way, when you are out of your city on an investigation, or when an investigation takes you outside of your city, you can still work it and have the right paperwork and feel better knowing that everything you're doing is with the blessing of the CLEO of the county, even though it's not completely necessary. When I became a traffic investigator and started spending half my career in Memphis hunting down hit & run drivers, I got a county commission. GhostFace works for a municipal PD, but goes all over the county making DUI arrests as part of the Metro DUI squad. Same deal for him, just different duties. If we make an arrest in our city, we take them to our jail and use our paperwork. If we were to arrest someone in Memphis or out in the county, we'd use the Sheriff Office paperwork and transport them to the county jail. Just saves us from having to get assistance from another agency or deal with a court system we're not too familiar with.

Edited January 2, 2011 by kb4ns

[GhstFace38]

Thanks kb4ns, you summed it up well.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

First of all, all police officers have "general jurisdiction" anywhere up to a mile outside of their city limits with only a few exceptions. From TCA:

"6-54-301. Extension of police authority beyond limits. —

The police authority of all incorporated towns and cities shall extend to a distance of one (1) mile from the lawful corporate limits thereof, for the suppression of all disorderly acts and practices forbidden by the general laws of the state; provided, that such jurisdiction of an incorporated town or city shall not be hereby extended beyond the limits of the county in which any part of such town is situated, or so as to come within one (1) mile of any other incorporated town or city."

Thanks kb4ns

Hope I haven't exceeded the dumb question quota--

Does that quoted part of the law contain a logic bomb?

For instance, if there is an unincorporated region lying between city A and city B, and this region is less than 1 mile wide--

Would the phrasing of the law make the region a "no man's land" where neither officers of city A or city B would have jurisdiction?

For instance perhaps if there is a disorderly situation at a roadhouse in this region-- The police from City A would not have jurisdiction because the region is within a mile of City B? But the police from City B would not have jurisdiction because the region is within a mile of City A? Could the disorderly roadhouse boogie on until a county sheriff arrives to establish order?

Admittedly this is far-fetched. Just wondering if this part of the law contains a logic bomb.

Thanks!

[kb4ns]

Lester, in a situation like that, both city A and city B could show up, restore order, and make arrests. They'd then just hand over the arrestee to a deputy who would place the charges.

[kb4ns]

Also, since the OP brought up THP... the following is my understanding based on what I've been told by some Troopers I've gone through classes with.

THP is tasked with investigations and enforcement of laws on state and federal highways / interstates everywhere in the state. However, a city or county can choose to essentially "take over" the highways in their jurisdiction. The local jurisdiction will then be expected to investigate all crashes and enforce the laws on those sections of roadway, but the trade-off is that they get funding from the state and federal government for doing so. Of course, Troopers still have jurisdiction in these municipalities if they choose to stop someone or make an arrest, but they won't be called to work accidents. For the guys in the Memphis area, you'll notice that you rarely see a THP car in the Memphis area, unless it's on their way to the substation on Hwy 70.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks, kb4ns

[DaveTN]

First of all, all police officers have "general jurisdiction" anywhere up to a mile outside of their city limits with only a few exceptions. From TCA:

Secondly, any certified LEO in TN carries his powers anywhere in the state. If I go to Knoxville, I can make an arrest the same as I can at home. The only issue is that I don't have the right "paperwork" for the arrest, be that the misdemeanor cite, affidavit, arrest ticket, or whatever used by the jurisdiction I am in. Also, I'm gonna have fun figuring out how/when to get to court. Luckily, there is another option. I could arrest the person and hand them over to another LEO in their jurisdiction and let them place the charges based off of my observations. If I was in Jackson TN in my squad car for a training class and clocked someone doing 55 in a 35, I could pull them over and let Jackson PD come write them a ticket based on my observations (not that I'd probably be so inclinded to do it, but it's perfectly legal). This part doesn't have as much to do with the OP's question, but I figured I'd throw it out there in case anyone was curious.

Thirdly, to address what GhostFace38 was talking about... some city officers, usually investigators, have deputy commissions issued from the Sheriff. That way, when you are out of your city on an investigation, or when an investigation takes you outside of your city, you can still work it and have the right paperwork and feel better knowing that everything you're doing is with the blessing of the CLEO of the county, even though it's not completely necessary. When I became a traffic investigator and started spending half my career in Memphis hunting down hit & run drivers, I got a county commission. GhostFace works for a municipal PD, but goes all over the county making DUI arrests as part of the Metro DUI squad. Same deal for him, just different duties. If we make an arrest in our city, we take them to our jail and use our paperwork. If we were to arrest someone in Memphis or out in the county, we'd use the Sheriff Office paperwork and transport them to the county jail. Just saves us from having to get assistance from another agency or deal with a court system we're not too familiar with.

Thanks for that info; I have asked before but never got a response from someone that knew.

That’s pretty much the way it was for us in Illinois. The state lines were our jurisdiction. Of course we didn’t stop people in other jurisdictions for minor offenses (like traffic). But we had full Police powers no matter where in the state we were if we saw a crime. The only real limiting factor we had was that we had to take the arrested to the nearest jail. We couldn’t arrest them in Chicago and take them back downstate.

Getting in a jurisdictional dispute with a Police officer usually won’t end well.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

Great info in this thread.

[vontar]

Thanks, kb4ns

I have got more then I expected for sure out of this now.

[tennessee01tacoma]

You must be talking about Oliver Springs, Vontar.

For those who don't know oliver springs is a small town of 3000 that is in 3 counties Morgan, Anderson and Roane. Highways 61 and 62 meet and run together for about 4 miles through Oliver Springs and is a major gateway for people who work in Knoxville and Oak Ridge. They have gained a reputation IN THE PAST of writing tickets mainly to people with Morgan co tags. I want to stress in the past, I haven't heard of it as much recently. But their latest scam is a construction zone that has been vacant for almost 3 months now and the speed limit drops from 45 to 30. Which when workers are present is great but like I said nothing has been moved there for quite some time now.