22 cal conversions

[hipower]

How about some feedback? I'm cosidering a 22 kit for one of my pistols. I have a blue Kimber ProCarry II that I'm tempted to get a Kimber kit for. And a couple of Glocks that might also be used--a 19 and a 22 that I'd think about an Advantage Arms kit. Money is not the issue; roughly 330 for the kimber and 275 for the glockkit.

Anyone care to tell me of pro/con issues with either? Or have experience with either of them? Thanks.

[JReedEsq]

I've got an Advantage Arms kit for my Glock 22. I've had no issues at all as long as I use either CCI Mini-Mags or Remmington Goldens. Everyone says Remmington .22 ammo is crap but it is the only bulk pack ammo that will function in my AA kit. It may not be as accurate as the CCIs but for me the point is cheap practice. The weight of the gun isn't the same with the conversion kit and of course the recoil is way different, but when I'm shooting often I would generally stick to .22lr about half the time. Unfortunately, I've been busy with a new baby and the holidays and I've not been able to shoot at all for a while (the past month or so), but I can't wait to try out the .22 kit I picked up for my AR-15 as well.

[hipower]

Thanks, JReedEsq. Any comments on the kimber kits, anyone? From what I've read on here, the Advantage kits on the glocks seem to be quite popular, but not having experience with either, I'm hoping to be informed and educated by some of our more knowledgable members.

[mav]

I have a Kimber 22 conversion kit that I bought back when I had 2 Kimber 1911s. They are okay. I originally bought it to cheapen up my practice. When I first used it, I did not think it was very accurate and I hated that the slide did not lock after the last round. I ended up by a Ruger Mark III Hunter to use as a 22 instead of using the conversion kit. One thing I need to mention is I am a lot better shot now than when I originally bought the conversion kit.

One thing to mention is the Kimber kit doesn't like all ammo. I used CCI Mini-Mags with the kit. I tried hollow point CCI Mini-Mags and had a failure to feed with every mag loaded.

Last night I put the conversion kit on my Nighthawk T3. I am going to try it at the range today. I will let you know how I feel about it later on this evening.

Edited December 31, 2010 by mav

[hipower]

Thanks, mav. The more I get into this, the more I begin to reconsider the kit idea. I'm having trouble searching on GlockTalk, but checking some other web locations don't leave me feeling warm and fuzzy about this. I wonder if a seperate 22 caliber gun isn't the best way to go. I've had the idea of a suppressed 22 on my mind for a while, so maybe looking for a bull barrel Ruger or a buckmark might be next.

[mav]

Okay, I just got back from the range. I had the Kimber conversion kit attached to my Nighthawk T3, and I was using 40 gr CCI Mini-Mags (no hollow points). First thing to note is that the Kimber conversion kit won't attach to all 1911s. For example, the kit will not fit at all on my Wilson CQB, which is understandable since the CQB is a semi-custom gun. Since you have a Kimber, I doubt there would be any problems with fit. The fit on the Nighthawk isn't the greatest, but it functions.

I haven't used this kit in almost 8 months and it was good too see how it performs considering I am way better at shooting now than I was 8 months ago. I shot 200 rounds with two failure to feeds, which I believe was due to the fit on my T3.

As far as accuracy goes, I am not anywhere near as accurate with the kit as I am with my Ruger Mark III Hunter, which was expected. However, the kit was accurate enough for what I would want to do with it. I placed the target at 7 yards and all of the rounds at rapid to semi-rapid fire were within the x and 10 ring. There was a nice big hole that was approximately a 3 in grouping. The sights were off slightly, and if they were adjusted and I worked at little more with the platform, the grouping should be smaller. The accuracy of the kit was good enough that I will continue to use it while working on various exercises. Overall, I was rather pleased with the performance of the kit.

Just to reiterate, the Kimber conversion kit does not like all ammo brands. Kimber even recommends using higher velocity ammo. If you are wanting to use the cheapest of the cheap 22 ammo. then I have no idea how it will perform. Lastly, $330 is a little high for the Kimber conversion kit. If you decide that is what you want, then I would shop around because it can be bought for under $300.

[BryanP]

I've tried .22lr conversions for my (now sold) SIG P220 and my AR-15. In each case I find myself enjoying a dedicated .22lr more, and finding them to be more reliable to boot.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The only 22 conversion kit I have is a Beretta Factory conversion for 92FS. Have been using it a lot for about 6 months.

It locks back on last round, operates exactly like standard Beretta 92, and is about as accurate as I am with the standard 9mm slide on the 92.

I have not done bench-rest shooting to find out how much is my inaccuracy and how much is the adapter. Either one will put all the rounds in a circle varying from 4" to 8" diameter at 10 or 15 yards, depending on how bad I'm doing that day. A better shooter could work them better.

Out of the box it had some misfeeds even with CCI minimag. I lubed the mags and took more care loading the mags and ran the new adapter fairly wet.

After awhile it started running 100 percent on CCI minimag. Then after some more break-in, it is now 100 percent with CCI minimag, Federal bulk pack, Federal Premium, and Winchester T22. It just doesn't misbehave anymore. Ran about 100 rounds of cheap Federal bulk pack thru it today with zero misfeeds.

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If I get 1911's, will probably get a 9mm 1911 and web-search for the best cheap dedicated .22 1911 and get whatever that happens to be.

Want to get a CZ Kadet adapter slide for CZ-75 next though. Kadet slide is a bit expensive, but seems to have a reputation for pretty good accuracy and reliability.

[hipower]

Thanks for the feedback guys. As I posted earlier, I thnk that unless I find a steal on a conversion, I'm thinking that a Ruger MkII/III may be in my future. I've been offered a good price on one, but doesn't have the bull barrel I think I want.

And a Happy New Year to you all!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Some more questions--

I like switching between .22 and centerfire at range practice. Think it might help avoid practicing exactly the same bad habits too long at a stretch, and the .22 is cheaper trigger time.

I like my Ruger Mark II slabside target and have put thousands of rounds thru it. But it handles different enough from centerfire pistols that dunno if it helps improve centerfire skillls. Since getting the Beretta 92 .22 conversion last year, the Mark II hasn't been out to the range. The Beretta 92 .22 is fun and perhaps more practical practice.

Found a 9mm 1911 not expensive that hopefully won't turn out a dog. Whenever it gets warm enough to go shoot it. Didn't want to get a .45 1911 and one more ammo caliber to hoard.

Possibly 1911 fits my hand better than double stack, but no sense breaking the bank on the experiment. This Taurus PT1911 9mm seems well-appointed. Novak sights appear easy to use.

So the question of acquiring a .22 1911 with similar feel, weight, and sights. Get very similar operation between the .22 and 9mm.

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A dedicated Kimber .22 1911 pistol is one possibility. But that is supposedly lighter than a steel 1911. Some web reviews say they are fabulous reliable tack drivers and other reviewers claim they are overpriced jam-o-matics.

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Maybe there are several models of Chiappa. Some folks really like em. Looked at one Chiappa at the store which looks like a WWI relic. Old-fashioned sights and operating features. Ain't saying that is bad, but it wouldn't be similar to the PT1911 9mm. However the Chiappa seems to weigh about the same as a typical steel 1911.

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There are some other brand inexpensive dedicated .22 1911's. Some folks swear by em and some swear at em. Probably at least need to hold one in hand before buying.

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Some 1911-a-holics report happiness custom-building frames to hold Kimber or other conversion slides, for nice "high-end" dedicated .22 1911. I'd need to pay somebody to build me a dedicated .22 going that route.

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Then there is the option of getting an RI or MetroArms American CLassic II or a .45 PT1911, slap on a Kimber conversion and get somebody to tune if necessary. Store away the .45 slide in a drawer and maybe even shoot .45 occasionally.

That option would cost about the same as buying a dedicated Kimber .22 pistol, but the weight and operating controls would be very similar to the PT1911 9mm, and would also be .45 capable.

Looked at a stainless MetroArms ACII which has very similar features and feel to the PT1911 9mm, not expensive. Supposedly a very good gun for the money. It is sposed to be no firing pin block bog-standard full-size design, so maybe it would work good with a Kimber conversion.

Compatibility would be an important question to answer of course. Was just thinking MAYBE the internals of an RI or MetroArms would have a little higher odds of being standard, than a PT1911.

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The primary objective is not to pinch pennies with cheap guns. Just dunno fo sho that I'll fall in love with 1911's. My shooting problems don't have much to do with trigger creep or whether the pull is 3 pounds versus 5 pounds. The world's finest trigger probably would not help much right now.

Sorry for the ramble. Any suggestions?

[Raoul]

I bought a .22 bolt adapter for my EBR from a fellow TGO'er. I've had nothing but good luck and waaaaay to much fun with it. Price is right on those adapters too.

[hipower]

The long awnser is that since I've been thinking of a supressed 22, I'll probably just wait and find the best choice for my pocket and the suppressor unit and buy a good dedicated 22. And thanks to Lester, now I'm back to thinking about a 9mm or a 38 super PT1911.

Just too many toys and not enough money. Anyway, thanks to all for the input.

[Jonsaiga]

I had an Advatage Arms conversion kit for my Glock 17 that I wish like hell I wouldn't have sold. It functioned flawlessly with Remington golden bullets, Remington target ammo, CCI Stingers and CCI minimags. Rem target was the most accurate with CCI's not far behind, followed by the golden bullets with the Stingers being the least accurate. I've taken several squirrels and rabbits with it out to 25-30 yards with both the Golden bullets and Minimags. Took a raccon with it using the Remington target ammo.

My personal opinion............

If you are just looking for a cheaper training/practice alternative compared to shooting 9mm,.40S&W, and/or .45ACP I would consider skipping the conversion and finding a quality airsoft replica instead. BB's and gas are cheaper than even .22lr ammo, you don't have to go to the gun range to use it (with home made BB traps it can be used indoors without causing damage to the home's interior), it can be used for more practical training such as FoF and it works great for teaching new shooters.

The place where the conversion kit really shines is as an addition to the backpack on camping and hiking trips for small game collecting. This allows you to carry your normal SD handgun while providing you a lightweight .22lr option. I mostly used the one I had for carrying around the farm for dealing with pests/predators and taking the occasional squirrel or rabbit when ever the oppritunity arose. Again..... these are just my personal opinions on the matter.

[Tempest455]

I had an Advatage Arms conversion kit for my Glock 17 that I wish like hell I wouldn't have sold. It functioned flawlessly with Remington golden bullets, Remington target ammo, CCI Stingers and CCI minimags. Rem target was the most accurate with CCI's not far behind, followed by the golden bullets with the Stingers being the least accurate. I've taken several squirrels and rabbits with it out to 25-30 yards with both the Golden bullets and Minimags. Took a raccon with it using the Remington target ammo.

My personal opinion............

If you are just looking for a cheaper training/practice alternative compared to shooting 9mm,.40S&W, and/or .45ACP I would consider skipping the conversion and finding a quality airsoft replica instead. BB's and gas are cheaper than even .22lr ammo, you don't have to go to the gun range to use it (with home made BB traps it can be used indoors without causing damage to the home's interior), it can be used for more practical training such as FoF and it works great for teaching new shooters.

The place where the conversion kit really shines is as an addition to the backpack on camping and hiking trips for small game collecting. This allows you to carry your normal SD handgun while providing you a lightweight .22lr option. I mostly used the one I had for carrying around the farm for dealing with pests/predators and taking the occasional squirrel or rabbit when ever the oppritunity arose. Again..... these are just my personal opinions on the matter.

Trust me, a box filled with old magazines is the best method. I've used a bunch of methods over the last year at home. A one 1ft square box will last 200 rounds or so before you have to replace it using .22 LR. When done throw it out.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I got an Advantage Arms Target 1911 .22 conversion and have taken it to the range a couple of times. Mounted to a MetroArms American Classic II frame.

Advantage Arms makes 2 full-size 1911 conversions, and the (slightly more expensive) Target model locks the barrel to the frame so that neither the barrel or sights move.

It may be a little more accurate than my Beretta 92 conversion. Or perhaps the 1911 grip and trigger just fits my hand a little better. Either conversion would likely be more accurate in the hands of a better shooter.

In principle the Advantage Arms should be more accurate, because with the barrel locked in, there is zero wiggle in the barrel. The Beretta 92 conversion design, the barrel has just a tiny amount of wiggle.

It is running 100 percent on CCI minimags. The website recommends several kinds of standard velocity ammo, but recommends against most Federal ammo among some other brands. They explain that some otherwise good rounds have powder more suitable to rifles and do not generate short-barrel recoil suitable to work the AA action reliably.

After running a couple of hundred minimags, I tried some Federal bulk pak high velocity, which work fine in a ruger mark II and the Beretta 92 conversion. The Federal bulk pak had feeding problems. It did not seem to be working the slide aggressively enough to reliably eject and pick up the next round. Perhaps it will work better with bulk pak after breaking in some more. I have some Federal standard velocity (which AA claims ought to work) will try sometime. Also some CCI standard velocity, which AA recommends more heartily than the minimags.

Most 1911 conversions do not lock the slide open on last round, but the AA kits do.

The first outing, the slide locked open every time. On the second outing, a couple of times the slide did not lock open. Investigating back at home, the slide release lever had a little bit of horizontal play and could sometimes slip off the mag follower and fail to lock back.

The slide release in this kit is two pieces, a short slide stop rod which the barrel locks onto. This prevents the slide stop rod from rotating as with typical slide stop. The slide stop lever free-rotates on a little 'shoulder' on the left-side of the slide stop rod. The shoulder acts like a bearing for the slide stop lever to rotate on. This shoulder on the slide stop rod appeared to be just a little too deep, allowing the slide stop lever to have too much side-to-side play. So I lathed off just the tiniest bit of the slide-stop rod's "shoulder", which took out the side-to-side play and seems to have fixed the problem.

I did a lot of web-searching on the different 1911 conversions. The salient points of the Advantage Arms seem to include--

1. Not outrageous high price.

2. Slide locks back on empty.

3. Good user reviews for reliability and accuracy.

4. AA magazines are not very expensive. Some of the "elite" 1911 .22 conversions have "you've got to be kidding" high magazine prices.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Speaking of conversions, has anyone shot the Kimber 1911 with the 17M2 conversion?

I found a dedicated SS Kimber chambered in 17M2 and was concidering getting it because it is a rare bird. But I would also have to shoot it some.

Dolomite

Edited February 5, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Dolomite. Web remarks seem generally positive about the dedicated .22 Kimber 1911, but you already know that because you told me where to look for the good reviews. I may have got one if it had been easy to get locally.

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Compared three .22 conversions this weekend. Advantage Arms 1911 conversion on a MetroArms frame, Beretta 92FS factory conversion, and CZ 85 with the CZ Kadet conversion.

Set up three targets side by side at identical height. Fired 60 rds into each 8" target from about 10 or 12 yards. Standing slow-fire two-handed. Pitiful but that is about as good as I get. I don't think many shots missed the paper entirely. Perhaps no flyers missed the paper but can't guarantee it.

Alternated 10 rd mags between the guns, so each target is 6 sets of 10 rds, alternated with the other guns so that fatigue or practice ought to be about the same between the three pistols. Ten rds from the 1911, then ten rds from the Beretta, etc.

CCI Mini-mag hollow point wally world ammo. It is said that the mini-mag 40gr solid point is slightly more accurate, dunno.

No trigger work on the 1911 or CZ. Ten years ago had a trigger job done on the Beretta frame, but I don't know what the gunsmith did to the pistol. Maybe he just smoothed it out or maybe he replaced parts.

Advantage Arms 1911 Conversion

Beretta 92FS .22 Conversion

CZ 85 Combat with .22 Kadet Conversion

I can't decide if the 1911 or Beretta has the tightest group.

The CZ group is loosest, but I suspect my hand and eye just isn't fitting quite as well with the CZ as with the other two. There is a definite pattern to the errors on each pistol.

The Beretta group MAY be a little tighter because that combination is significantly lighter than the other two. Aluminum slide on aluminum frame. It feels like holding a toy gun it is so much lighter than the 1911 and CZ. Maybe that makes it easier to aim without "the shakes".

I don't have a clamp to fire the guns completely locked down. Didn't try a sand bag test because even with a sand bag my shooting errors might swamp any detectable accuracy differences.

A first guess is that all three are more accurate than I am. It would be interesting to know whether any are innately more accurate though.