Make it legal to carry without permit: yes or no?

[Krull]

And also the tn HCP class is a joke to people like you and me however my 60 year old mom took it and learned a lot about firearm safety. She had fired a gun about 10'total times b4 she took the class.

[Guest Archminister01]

The feelings seem to all be along the same lines. I had another question in the original thread that no one has really touched on and maybe those from Arizona can help me out. I think if total constitutional carry was permitted it would seem like an initial victory...but does anyone think it would backfire by encouraging almost every business to place up a "gunbuster" sign? People from other states have any experience in the matter?

Who cares? It seems to me that in all of this business about being able to carry that the rights of those that own that establishment are being forgotten. When i lived in AZ and the place had a no guns sign posted..I left it locked in the car. If I didnt like the fact that I had to go into a place of business or residence or whatever, then it was my RIGHT TO CHOOSE whether i wanted to go in. This same right works both ways and we cant have our cake and eat it too. If we keep the mentality that a place that doesnt allow carry should be boycotted then havent we become what we are striving against?

[Guest Archminister01]

Sure it is. There are plenty of places where no training is required for gun carry and nothing bad happens.

Same as- there are plenty of places where park carry is allowed and nothing bad happens.

Take a look at GA's laws for one example. No permit required for car carry. No training or loooong wait for a permit. Pay your 50 bucks and you're off to the races! Never hear of anything bad happening there.

"People shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in XYZ because that's where my kids play/people drink/whatever." - Irrational fear with no evidence to back up the claim.

"People shouldn't be allowed to carry guns in public if they did not attend an 8 hour class on how to oil a handgun" - Irrational fear with no evidence to back up the claim.

The TN HCP training requirements are a joke.

Cheers!

[Guest Jamie]

They could start teaching basic firearms safety in grade school/high school and have it be of more benefit than the HCP class. Teach it right along with Home Economics, General Business, Auto Mechanics, etc., let the kid get a high school diploma, and there ya go; no need for a damned permit.

The real problem here, and the one I think too many people are missing, is that it's been taught for a long time now that defending one's self is somehow wrong... that we should leave that job to the "professionals"...

Nobody ever bothers to mention that they're rarely around when you need 'em though... and that they aren't obligated to protect you.

[Krull]

They could start teaching basic firearms safety in grade school/high school and have it be of more benefit than the HCP class. Teach it right along with Home Economics, General Business, Auto Mechanics, etc., let the kid get a high school diploma, and there ya go; no need for a damned permit.

The real problem here, and the one I think too many people are missing, is that it's been taught for a long time now that defending one's self is somehow wrong... that we should leave that job to the "professionals"...

Nobody ever bothers to mention that they're rarely around when you need 'em though... and that they aren't obligated to protect you.

+1.

[Guest Archminister01]

I've come to feel really strongly about this recently. I would still have a permit since the reciprocity with other states is desirable to me. In AZ, you also still need to permit carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, I'm okay with that also, as it's probably the only way it would pass here too. People that carry "full time" would probably still opt for the permit.

However, there shouldn't be other restrictions on carrying if you are legally allowed to own a gun. The cry about criminals and felons etc are without merit because they aren't legally supposed to have a gun in the first place. Criminals don't care about permits. If you use your gun illegally, they should throw the book at you. If you use a gun to commit a crime, tack on 5 years. But drop the BS carrying charge. Charge them heavily for owning the gun illegally in the first place, not carrying it illegally.

If you can pass the NICS and buy a gun legally, that should give you the right to carry it. I'd even be willing to trade giving up "private sales" without a background check to ensure only people allowed to own the gun in the first place is carrying one.

That law in AZ that you are speaking of regarding not being able to carry in a alcohol serving establishment is no longer in effect. If you chose to carry in a liquor serving establishment, you can as long as that owner has not chosen, as is his right, to not allow firearms on the premises.

This has been a law for almost a year now..and funny thing...we havent heard of any HUGE shootouts in bars coming from AZ. For the most part and this goes for all things, if a person chooses to buy and carry a firearm, they most likely take the time to become familiar enough with that weapon to not hurt themselves. If i worries about EVERYONE out there that shouldnt be permitted to drive based on their lack of ability or intelligence, then I would never leave my house. Same mentality applies to carrying firearms. I would never go to a public range etc etc etc. Did someone say the sky is falling?

[strickj]

In GA you have to have it locked in your glove box. *Not the same thing as walking around with a loaded,chambered pistol.

That used to be the law, kinda. it never was required to be locked in the glovebox....just concealed.

You are now able to carry anywhere in your car. Been that way for a few years now.

Don't have to carry concealed in your pocket with a permit either, BTW.

My fears of being shot in a bathroom because the moron next to me dropped his weapon

So.... do you not want anyone to carry then? Last I checked, the HCP classes did not teach people how not to drop a gun.

They also do not teach people how to shoot straight... or any of that other good stuff that one should know how to do...

Edited December 27, 2010 by strickj

[Oh Shoot]

That law in AZ that you are speaking of regarding not being able to carry in a alcohol serving establishment is no longer in effect. If you chose to carry in a liquor serving establishment, you can as long as that owner has not chosen, as is his right, to not allow firearms on the premises....

Only if you have a permit, as I understand it.

Non-permit concealed and open carry, which is generally legal, is still prohibited in booze serving places.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Other states that offer reciprocity often insist that the carrier's home state have criteria similar to the state granting the reciprocity. It's one of the reasons Wyoming was looking at dropping several states and why TN didn't recognize Alabama until fairly recently.

Statement doesn't have much validity, Hex. TN recognizes EVERY state that issues a permit -- many are far far more lax than TN.

- OS

[Alpha13]

I'm all for a simple test, if you can legally own it, you can legally carry it.... period... simple law.

THIS!

[Guest Jamie]

Don't have to carry concealed in your pocket with a permit either, BTW.

So.... do you not want anyone to carry then? Last I checked, the HCP classes did not teach people how not to drop a gun.

They don't teach it in "cop school" either, since I know of at least a couple who have admitted to setting a round off while in the toilet.

That's not even taking into account the cops that leave their gun in the stall when they're finished.

Nah... just not seeing where a permit - or even the police academy - is going to keep you from getting shot while in a public sh***er. And that's even with leaving "Johnny Crackhead" out of the picture.

[DaveTN]

Only two states currently recognize a “Right to Bear Armsâ€. I’m not sure that either of those states recognize it because of the 2nd amendment or just because that’s how they want it to be in their state. I would like to see Tennessee be the third.

I don’t want to make it a 2nd amendment argument. If you do you are dead before you get started.

I don’t think HCP has to be done away with to do that though. Some seem to feel that if HCP is done away with they won’t be able to carry in other states. I probably would continue to pay for HCP because I can. But I don’t think those that can’t afford the state fees, class fees or don’t have the time to wait (a mother fleeing an abusive husband) shouldn’t be able to enjoy the right to bear arms.

I would possibly be okay with a class requirement and a test as long as the class and test was free. I would like to see some type of firearms classes available in High School; but I am sure that would never fly in most school districts.

[ftncityfatboy]

No, better to simply hold people accountable for their actions...

What???? Accountability????

[Guest Jamie]

What???? Accountability????

Yeah, we all know how well that'll go over. :-\

[Guest Archminister01]

Only if you have a permit, as I understand it.

Non-permit concealed and open carry, which is generally legal, is still prohibited in booze serving places.

- OS

Just got off the phone with my brother.. current Deputy Sheriff of 16 years..I am correct. I still have many friends in AZ lived there for almost 24 years...if you want to know about AZ ask. If I dont know off the top of my head..I can find out real quick.

[JayC]

3 States have constitutional carry Dave, VT, AK, and now AZ. All 3 allow concealed carry without a permit.

It would be nice for TN to be the fourth.

Only two states currently recognize a “Right to Bear Armsâ€. I’m not sure that either of those states recognize it because of the 2nd amendment or just because that’s how they want it to be in their state. I would like to see Tennessee be the third.

I don’t want to make it a 2nd amendment argument. If you do you are dead before you get started.

I don’t think HCP has to be done away with to do that though. Some seem to feel that if HCP is done away with they won’t be able to carry in other states. I probably would continue to pay for HCP because I can. But I don’t think those that can’t afford the state fees, class fees or don’t have the time to wait (a mother fleeing an abusive husband) shouldn’t be able to enjoy the right to bear arms.

I would possibly be okay with a class requirement and a test as long as the class and test was free. I would like to see some type of firearms classes available in High School; but I am sure that would never fly in most school districts.

[Oh Shoot]

Just got off the phone with my brother.. current Deputy Sheriff of 16 years..I am correct. I still have many friends in AZ lived there for almost 24 years...if you want to know about AZ ask. If I dont know off the top of my head..I can find out real quick.

Are you saying you can carry in bar in AZ with no permit?

- OS

[Guest 270win]

In my home state of Arkansas, it is legal to carry weapons without any sort of license when 'on a journey'. You can carry weapons open or concealed and weapons are blackjacks, clubs, switchblades, handguns, swords in canes, etc. I know for a fact everyone carried when there was no licensing system before the mid 1990's in Arkansas. They were always on a journey or going to the woods as an excuse and the police looked the other way. In much of the state, the police still look the other way if you don't have a license and an old timer, and still if you are truly on a journey they have to leave you alone without a license. My grandpa drove around with a 38 on the seat of his vehicle just covered up with a hankerchief and no police officer ever hassled him and he was seen riding horse/4 wheeler with a handgun open and again no one cared. He concealed in town...he asked a state trooper once about getting a license before he died and the state trooper said as old as he was it was probably best not to mess with it..so he just kept on carrying.

Those without a journey honestly can carry wherever they want in more places without a license than all the crap restrictions that a license (when not on a journey) has in Arkansas. For example, a journey is an defense to prosecution for carrying a weapon on school property just like being a police officer or going to and from hunting. There is also no restriction in Arkansas to carrying on church property when on a journey. AR law is total garbage for licenses with all the restrictions. Also the AR 'sign law' doesn't mean squat when 'on a journey'.

Anyway i've carried a handgun away from home since i was 18. I didn't neeed a dumb class to teach me how to shoot. I learned at home when I was a kid from family. I only got a license to 'get legal' as we call it back home when I wasn't on a journey and also in other states where you absolutely have to have a license.

[Guest Archminister01]

Are you saying you can carry in bar in AZ with no permit?

- OS

I am saying that you can carry a weapon into a bar in AZ. I believe that one of the stipulations to be that one has a permit. You do not need to have a permit to carry concealed. I personally do not believe that guns and alcohol mix. If i were going out to have a few beers, my weapon would stay in my vehicle. Just like driving, certain things shouldnt be done while under the influence of alcohol.

In addition, AZ now is a state that is saying hat any firearm, ammunition made in and kept in AZ does not fall under any federal regulation including background check.

I am hoping that this state and many other wake up and take back their constitutional rights also.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Archminister01

[RobertNashville]

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about this issue.

What has been discussed (and I was there when this question was posed to Haslam) is that those who can already legally posses a handgun be allow to "go armed" without the need of obtaining a permit. Of course, that would ONLY apply in Tennessee. However, we still need the HCP process for those who travel outside of Tennessee and want to be armed while doing so.

But there is no reason why we can't have it both ways...there is NO reason why the HCP process in Tennessee needs to be or should be altered in order to also have "Constitutional Carry" for Tennessee residents within Tennessee so if we do get Constitutional Carry here, I'm sure we'll retain the HCP process.

I guess this comes down to whether you believe a person really has a RIGHT to carry for his own personal protection (and to protect other innocents) or if it's only a privilege for which you have to have permission from a bureaucrat. While I personally like the concept that someone has had at least some basic instruction and a background check before carrying; I have to come down on this being a RIGHT...as such, I believe people should be able to be armed without the need for a permission slip.

As a matter of fact, this very subject of this month's TFA Meeting (Nashville Chapter) which will be held on January 18th. If this subject interests you why not come to the meeting?

Edited December 27, 2010 by RobertNashville

[Guest Jamie]

If i were going out to have a few beers, my weapon would stay in my vehicle. Just like driving, certain things shouldnt be done while under the influence of alcohol.

Why do I find this funny? Could be 'cause you've still gotta drive home after those few beers? With the gun, I presume?

[Guest President Fernatt]

Why do I find this funny? Could be 'cause you've still gotta drive home after those few beers? With the gun, I presume?

if this were facebook, I would "like" that

[Oh Shoot]

I am saying that you can carry a weapon into a bar in AZ. I believe that one of the stipulations to be that one has a permit. You do not need to have a permit to carry concealed...

Okay, that's correct.

No permit needed to carry concealed OR openly in AZ in general, but must have a permit to carry in bar, and it must be concealed there also, no open carry in bars even with permit.

-OS

[Oh Shoot]

Why do I find this funny? Could be 'cause you've still gotta drive home after those few beers? With the gun, I presume?

Cars go so much slower than bullets and all.

Then again, a car is like a bigger, slower .45, eh?

- OS

[Krull]

That used to be the law, kinda. it never was required to be locked in the glovebox....just concealed.

You are now able to carry anywhere in your car. Been that way for a few years now.

Don't have to carry concealed in your pocket with a permit either, BTW.

So.... do you not want anyone to carry then? Last I checked, the HCP classes did not teach people how not to drop a gun.

They also do not teach people how to shoot straight... or any of that other good stuff that one should know how to do...

Not going to argue with someone who has an answer for everything and is always right. I thought you had to have it in plain view or in a box out of view. Not just under the seat or down in the door pouch. However the argument still stands. It's not a person carry law only a car which might come in handy during a car jack but prolly not when your out of your car. But I could be wrong. Kinda reminds me of democrats. Heh. You win! everything you say is true and my OPINION means squa or is just flat out wrong. Ever applied for Wifeswap?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Krull