What to do when Police arrive.

[Guest KCSTEVE]

The angle that I was going for was far more innocent than a self defense shooting. More like looking at your new gun show buy in your driveway, rearranging the range bag in the driveway or practicing with your defensive holster... in your yard.

Remember the man that was scarring deer out of his garden in Harrriman? That situation escalated into a police shooting and the man died.

The man did not respond to the officer in a way that could have prevented the officer from shooting him.

You know how we will pick up a gun and look down the sights, rack the slide, do a little "how would this baby come out of my holster", aim at imaginary targets......

and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by young, nervous men that are responding to "man with a gun." That is the situation that I had in mind. How do we tip-toe out of a situation, with gun in hand, when we are totally surprised by the responders.

[mikegideon]

The angle that I was going for was far more innocent than a self defense shooting. More like looking at your new gun show buy in your driveway, rearranging the range bag in the driveway or practicing with your defensive holster... in your yard.

And the police man sez... Just say no.

[Fallguy]

I tend not to aim at imaginary targets in my driveway and yard/driveway. But I live in town with close neighbors.

But as I said, if LEOs showed up and I was armed or had ones close to me.... I would wait and follow their commands. Just because you are legal and standing in your driveway is not worth getting shot over to prove a point.

[Guest KCSTEVE]

I agree.

"Life" is first and then "Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" comes next!

[DaveTN]

I agree.

"Life" is first and then "Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" comes next!

Police Officers believe in that also. They call it “Going home alive at the end of your shiftâ€.

There is nothing in the Constitution, or anything implied by our founding fathers that suggest a Police Officer needs to put his life or the lives of innocent people at risk to keep from infringing on your rights.

You know how we will pick up a gun and look down the sights, rack the slide, do a little "how would this baby come out of my holster", aim at imaginary targets......

and then all of a sudden you are surrounded by young, nervous men that are responding to "man with a gun." That is the situation that I had in mind. How do we tip-toe out of a situation, with gun in hand, when we are totally surprised by the responders.

It’s called situational awareness. If you are going to be in the open where someone is going to call the law on you, or if you are just playing around with a firearm; you better have it.

You are moving towards painting a scenario where the cops don’t have any choice but to shoot you. That can certainly happen. As everyone else has said the only way to “Tip Toe†out of that situation is to pay attention and do exactly what you are being told to do.

[Fallguy]

Police Officers believe in that also. They call it “Going home alive at the end of your shift”.

There is nothing in the Constitution, or anything implied by our founding fathers that suggest a Police Officer needs to put his life or the lives of innocent people at risk to keep from infringing on your rights.

I don't think anything in it allows them to violate rights to keep themselves safe either.....

But if a LEO gets a MWG call and responds and orders me down, to disarm etc....until he investigates it...I don't necessarily feel my rights have been violated either.

Totally agree on the situational awarness....if you are doing things like that, you should be aware LE may be called and watch for them and be prepared if the do arrive.

[DaveTN]

I don't think anything in it allows them to violate rights to keep themselves safe either.....

But if a LEO gets a MWG call and responds and orders me down, to disarm etc....until he investigates it...I don't necessarily feel my rights have been violated either.

Totally agree on the situational awarness....if you are doing things like that, you should be aware LE may be called and watch for them and be prepared if the do arrive.

I am fully aware that we are not going to see eye to eye or agree on this.

But I guess I would need to hear a scenario where you think someone’s rights are being violated. But as you said, if someone is concerned enough to call the law on you; that isn’t it.

I’m addressing the question that was posed from a real life responding Officers viewpoint on a man with a gun call. Not some random stopping of someone because they are armed.

[Guest KCSTEVE]

Not every report of "Man with a Gun" needs to be responded with lethal force.

Sometimes it turns out to be "man in his garden' or "man with a hose nozzle". I'm only wondering about "man in his driveway" and how to survive.

There are times that there seemed to be a "Kill them all, let God sort it out" mentality and I am looking for a way to avoid that.

[Fallguy]

I am fully aware that we are not going to see eye to eye or agree on this.

But I guess I would need to hear a scenario where you think someone’s rights are being violated. But as you said, if someone is concerned enough to call the law on you; that isn’t it.

I’m addressing the question that was posed from a real life responding Officers viewpoint on a man with a gun call. Not some random stopping of someone because they are armed.

LOL..yeah at least we can agree to disagree when it is necessary.

Nothing immediately comes to mind within the OPs scenario as far as rights being violated. But in general I think it does happen sometimes.

As far as a random stop goes...I think they way TN law is written a LEO that detains someone that he sees is armed until he determines their HCP status is not violating anyone's right....or rather not violating the law...whether TN law is 100% constitutional is another discussion for another thread...lol

[mikegideon]

Not every report of "Man with a Gun" needs to be responded with lethal force.

Sometimes it turns out to be "man in his garden' or "man with a hose nozzle". I'm only wondering about "man in his driveway" and how to survive.

There are times that there seemed to be a "Kill them all, let God sort it out" mentality and I am looking for a way to avoid that.

... and it usually isn't. You just don't want to open those possibilities.

Unfortunately, we live in a society where a LOT of folks are scared of guns. I fully believe in 2A, but I also try to use some common sense. Why would anybody do anything to trigger another person's fear of guns? That's not excercising your rights. The easiest way to avoid it is to simply not wave your gun around in the presence of sheeple. You're not going to fix them. All you're going to do is wind of with a response that you won't like.

Now, if you're in your driveway, and are forced to draw your gun for legitimate self defense reasons, it's a different story.

Edited December 29, 2010 by mikegideon

[Fallguy]

Not every report of "Man with a Gun" needs to be responded with lethal force.

Sometimes it turns out to be "man in his garden' or "man with a hose nozzle". I'm only wondering about "man in his driveway" and how to survive.

There are times that there seemed to be a "Kill them all, let God sort it out" mentality and I am looking for a way to avoid that.

I don't think anyone (even DaveTN ) is advocating a "Shoot first" attitude.

I agree LEOs need to be aware not every MWG is actually someone with a gun or anyone acting illegally, but they have to be prepared that it is someone acting unlawfully and factor the threat. Hopefully the situation will give them time to evaluate things before lethal force is used. I completely agree that they should not roll up on the scene and shoot everything and anyone.

While I know it doesn't happen all the time, hopefully the dispatcher can get detailed info from the caller of what is going on. There is a big difference between, "It looks like my neighbor is putting a rifle in a bag in the trunk of his car" and "My neighbor is waving around a handgun yelling FTW".

As far as how to avoid being shot....think it goes back to be aware of your surrounding and listen to the commands of the responding officer.

[DaveTN]

Not every report of "Man with a Gun" needs to be responded with lethal force.

Sometimes it turns out to be "man in his garden' or "man with a hose nozzle". I'm only wondering about "man in his driveway" and how to survive.

I’ve responded to many “man with a gun” calls. The person is usually disarmed, the scene is secured and then I found out who called and why. (Doing that backwards can get you killed)

It is generally one of two things.

1. A person is carrying or moving firearms and someone is scared or concerned.

2. (Most common) A drunk is making a scene or is involved in a family fight or neighborhood situation and has either displayed or threatened that he has a gun.

There are times that there seemed to be a "Kill them all, let God sort it out" mentality and I am looking for a way to avoid that.

Really??? Are you really going to let this thread be reduced to cop bashing and get locked?

Does this wealth of experience come from all your personal experience of how cops respond to these calls?

[Guest KCSTEVE]

Really??? Are you really going to let this thread be reduced to cop bashing and get locked?

Does this wealth of experience come from all your personal experience of how cops respond to these calls?

Cop Bashing?.........Come on man! Sometimes bad things happen for no reason.

Just like now. I screwed up the quote thing!

[Guest Jamie]

Sometimes bad things happen for no reason

No, there's usually a reason... at least as far as "cause and effect" are a reason.

Like, pointing a hose nozzle at the police and pretending it's a gun resulting in one being shot... or something else of the like.

In the end, if the police show up while you're out on your property with a gun... pay attention to what they tell you, move slowly and deliberately while complying with their instructions, and don't do anything that looks like you're threatening them.

Also, be aware of what you're doing with your hands, and be sure to keep them in plain sight. Agitated gesturing is ill-advised as well. Try to stay calm, and don't do anything foolish.

That will pretty much remove the "cause" that'll get you shot.

Remember, the gun's only a prop... it's what you do with it that'll cause the trouble.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Jamie

[Steelharp]

I fully believe in 2A, but I also try to use some common sense.

Damn you.

Signed, Kwik

[mikegideon]

Damn you.

Signed, Kwik

I really dislike that guy, but you gotta give him credit for NOT getting shot.

[Guest Jamie]

I really dislike that guy, but you gotta give him credit for NOT getting shot... so far.

Had to fix that, 'cause I think we all know that if he keeps up, it's coming.

[mikegideon]

Had to fix that, 'cause I think we all know that if he keeps up, it's coming.

See post #89. He knows all that stuff. In his case, the gun is always a prop.

[Guest Jamie]

See post #89. He knows all that stuff. In his case, the gun is always a prop.

Yep. But there's the fact that everybody screws up, sooner or later, if they continue on with anything long enough.

Has Kwik shown some sign of stopping, that I've missed?

[Guest KCSTEVE]

I wish that prospective gun owners would read this stuff to see what we have to go through as gun owners.

[Garufa]

Since this has gone on for so long and there is no point to read it...did anyone say put the damn gun down...before the law rolls up?

That is the one and only answer.

[Guest KCSTEVE]

Yes, but the journey has been more fun than the destination.

[mikegideon]

Since this has gone on for so long and there is no point to read it...did anyone say put the damn gun down...before the law rolls up?

That is the one and only answer.

On page 1 or 2. Meanwhile, over on the whiskey thread, they're all gonna go out in the front yard and shoot in awhile

[Guest Jamie]

On page 1 or 2. Meanwhile, over on the whiskey thread, they're all gonna go out in the front yard and shoot in awhile

What else are ya supposed to do with empty whiskey bottles? It ain't like they'll give ya a re-fill... dammit.

Plus, all the broken glass keeps those pesky kids and Jehovah's witnesses off the lawn, so there's no need for the police...

[Guest KCSTEVE]

I'm not drunk enough to shoot, but I'll drive!