Let me run some ideas past you. Possible changes to TGO.

[TGO David]

I've been toying with some ideas lately that I think could improve the quality of information provided on TGO and further elevate this community above the status of just being a cool place to hang out and talk about firearms, to a community where you can hang out and talk about firearms and get good, solid, no BS information.

Frankly, as we continue to grow in size I am becoming increasingly concerned about us going the way of Arfcom or Glocktalk in terms of signal to noise ratio. If you've spent much time on those sites, you know that they started out as brilliant sources of solid information and then became so popular that the pool of knowledge became diluted. There is so much random nonsense and utter farcical bull-feces on those forums now, that a person who is new to the community has precious little chance of identifying the true experts from the "mall ninjas" who have zero practical experience and just parrot what they read last month on some other forum.

Sadly I've seen an increased instance of this happening on TGO where patently bad information was given out or someone regurgitated what they read somewhere else as an answer to a question, and further contributed to the propagation of yet another gun myth. Things like "stopping power" in a handgun, or why a Glock is better than an M&P or why you should trade in your gas impingement driven AR's immediately because they are doomed to fail.

So here's what I am thinking about doing. Tell me what you think. It doesn't mean I'm going to base my ultimate decision on popular vote, but I promise I'll take the constructive comments under advisement.

My Brilliant Plan:

• First, I am thinking about doing away with post counts entirely -- or at least as far as the regular members will ever see. Post counts for some reason equate to experience in the eyes of some folks, and they are an absurd matter of pride to others.
  

I really hate post counts because they mean nothing more than the fact that a person has spent a lot of time on a forum. I've spent a lot of time working on crap in my garage at home, but that doesn't make me a car. The same holds true for post counts being an indicator of someone's knowledge or expertise.

I'd like to get rid of post counts so that people don't weigh the value of a person's comments based on how many other comments they've made.

• Second, I am thinking about setting up a designation for members who have demonstrated themselves to be Subject Matter Experts in certain disciplines. This isn't a popularity contest where the cool kids are nominated by me or the staff, it's just a simple fact of the matter that when certain folks speak about certain subjects, the rest of us would be wise to shut up and listen.
  

For example, if Tony at

Secret City Weaponeers

has a whopping 200 posts to his name and takes it upon himself to tell us how to make our own Kydex belt loops for his holsters, we should probably freaking listen to

him

as opposed to some random guy who has 20,000 posts to his name but his only credentials are he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Right?

Wouldn't it be nice to have folks on TGO who are recognized as experts in certain things? SURPRISE! We already do! The problem is they either tend to be quiet about it or their posts are lost in a sea of noise from people who haven't really got any practical experience backing up their often-incorrect opinions.

It's my hope that by designating folks as

SME's

(based on real world resumes) we will help identify the people who really ought to be listened to when they talk about certain things.

Just a thought.

• I'm also thinking about using a feature of the vBulletin forum software that I have resisted the urge to implement here thus far. Namely, Reputation Points.
  

I haven't quite figured out the procedures for this, but I would implement it in such a way that it wouldn't be possible (or at least not easy) to abuse it for the sake of stupid popularity contests among cliques. I would want it set up so that maybe the Staff and the Subject Matter Experts could add positive reputation to members who contribute valuable posts.

Everyone would be able to see each other's reputation points also. That way we all kind of know what a person's career here at TGO has been and whether they are a good apple... or not.

Perhaps as members gain positive reputation, that advances them towards becoming Subject Matter Experts themselves. It seems like a good way to keep track of the folk who constantly contribute solid information to the community.

Another angle of Reputation Points is that they can swing negatively as well. So if a person comes onto TGO and starts posting all sorts of completely inaccurate information, tarnishes the reputation of firearms owners everywhere, makes a complete ass of themselves, etc. that person could be awarded negative reputation all the way up the point of the forum automatically banning them for being worthless drains on society.

Anyway... just some thoughts I've been having lately and surprisingly enough they are similar to what some other folks that I've talked to recently have been thinking as well. And again, none of this is to create popularity contests on TGO... it's all about providing the best information we can to our members and ensuring that we don't become yet another useless waste of your time on the Internet.

Thoughts?

[duckhunteresq]

I like the SME (Subject Matter Expert) idea and it sounds plausible to me.

The reputation point piece is interesting as well. If an indivdual were granted the status of SME, perhaps they could be the ones to offer reputation points in a fair and unbiased manner.

Just my two cents.....

[Smith]

I like the concept. The inplimentation might be difficult with verification, but i do like where it is going. Most of the real experts i know don't like to be known for their credentials. Seems humilitary and wisdom go hand in hand. Then there are the guys who are "experts" but are also blowhards and while they may have credentials their teaching and information isn't worth much. That's the difficulty I see in that.

[MikePapa1]

I like all three proposals.

[Punisher84]

I think it all sounds like a good start!

[MacGyver]

Interesting idea. Anything that brings better information to the top is good as far as I'm concerned.

[E4 No More]

I like the SME idea. I don't ask a lot of questions because it's near impossible to sort the wheat from the chaff. I look to post counts only to see if someone's established on the forum before entertaining the idea of doing business with them. I've seen promotion points fall on their face on other forums, so I'm not too hot on that.

[Erik88]

good idea. I still don't know how much it will help stop the posting of bad information but it's a start I guess. We are always going to have a few members on here who are "experts" at everything.

I nominate Fallguy and OhShoot SME's of the TCA.

[Guest Ae-35]

Sounds good, ..... maybe a suggestion. Eliminate the politics section, seems to cause bad feelings and disrupts haromony among members. After all when politics and religion are eliminated from discussions , ideas are exchanged without conflict, what's the need? Really isn't this a gun forum. JMO

[Erik88]

What about something to correct off-topic debates. That is quite possibly the most annoying thing that happens here.

here is a prime example. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handgun-carry-self-defense/49868-my-next-home-defense-gun.html

[Guest tnxdshooter]

Sounds good thus far. I just hope that the people that are awarded SME's don't get big heads like alot of them do on "other forums". I am sure you have seen what I am talking about on the "other forums" from time to time.

[Punisher84]

Sounds good, ..... maybe a suggestion. Eliminate the politics section, seems to cause bad feelings and disrupts haromony among members. After all when politics and religion are eliminated from discussions , ideas are exchanged without conflict, what's the need? Really isn't this a gun forum. JMO

I'm sorry but that is FAR from the truth. If you have two people talking there is eventually going to be a conflict of opinion. Case in point lol

[Erik88]

Sounds good thus far. I just hope that the people that are awarded SME's don't get big heads like alot of them do on "other forums". I am sure you have seen what I am talking about on the "other forums" from time to time.

that's a good point also. I could see that happening fairly easy.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Experts: GT has done this, and has some pretty reputable ones at that. Their Go Ask The Experts section seems to be largely ignored. You could have SMEs roaming the boards, but they would really need to be willing to share their real names and true credentials in order to be trusted by new members.

Post Count: meh. It could be a benefit if you think you have members that post just to get their count up. I've seen it done on other boards and it doesnt seem to reduce the BS at all. Consider eliminating join date too, if you really want people to be judged by the content of their post and not the length of time they have been on the interweb.

Reputation points: honestly, I've never seen this work well. It gets used as a popularity contest and the little cliques start teaming up on people they don't like. It always gets catty and childish and, IMHO, seems to raise the bs factor.

[maroonandwhite]

I like the SME (Subject Matter Expert) idea and it sounds plausible to me.

The reputation point piece is interesting as well. If an indivdual were granted the status of SME, perhaps they could be the ones to offer reputation points in a fair and unbiased manner.

Just my two cents.....

This +1

[Guest bkelm18]

SMEs sound like a good idea. I've been here a while and I pretty much know who knows their stuff and who doesn't, but newer folks might have trouble dissecting the drivel. It can also be tough for newer, yet knowledgeable, people to get their voice heard when all you see is a 20 post count. Rep points are bad in my opinion. It's nothing but a popularity contest. Unless, as you say, you can restrict it to "meaningful" rep. For example I wouldn't be able to rep somebody just because I found out they like the color blue. TGO is a great place for good information, but a lot of the times it gets watered down with crap posts and armchair commandos.

[dralarms]

You house your rules . Just as long as you don't kick me off I'm happy.

[Guest JMB]

Don't care about post counts.

Don't care about reputation points.

Don't care about "Experts", after all someone decided Tim Geitner and Ben Bernanke were "experts."

Do tend to like an open and unfettered exchange of thoughts, ideas and information, where the "experts" can feel free to point out mistakes to the rest of us. But that's .

[mav]

I don't think I have been on the forum long enough to offer suggestions on how you guys can make it better. I do like the "SME." I am one of those that you are speaking of when you said,

that a person who is new to the community has precious little chance of identifying the true experts from the "mall ninjas" who have zero practical experience and just parrot what they read last month on some other forum.

I take it that it is derogatory, but I still don't know what a mall ninja is.

One thing I do like about this forum is there aren't too many forum elitists (there are some) who will slap you down for asking or saying something stupid. I am sure I have made several faux pas and will continue to do so. I hope it isn't changed too much to cater just to the elitists, SMEs, or sycophants.

[Armed Aviator]

I like this site as it is. This is only my opinion. I don't want to give up my hard earned "Post Count" It's your house, your rules. Please just don't bring out the ban hammer

[herr.baer]

Great ideas.

[Links2k]

I like the SME idea. The reputation points idea will not work here. There are already too many cliques on this site. A guy like me that mainly comes to read and get info will get neutralized in the first week.

[RobertNashville]

I very much like the goals, here.

All three proposals sound good but I suspect that implementing them AND keeping all three true to the intended goal is going to be difficult and require a lot of oversight; "best laid plans of Mice and Men", etc. as it's simply difficult to keep things like reputation points, etc. from not turning into or at least being perceived as some sort of popularity contest.

I'm not saying don't try; just adding a note of caution.

[Guest Jamie]

As long as the place doesn't go from being a spot where there's always activity, always people willing to speak up and offer help or just an opinion on anything, and always something new and different to see/read/learn... to something that greatly resembles the far back store room of some library.... I don't much care.

As I've mentioned before, I used to spend a great deal of time on a sword-related forum... I was there when it first started, and followed it through to what I consider pretty much it's end. And honestly, what killed it, at least for me, was the owner's compulsion to try and make it more of some sort of school or online university. He was so concerned about being taken seriously academically, and by the people who have degrees and such, that he ended up gutting the heart and soul right out of the place.

Sorry, but if I want to read information by someone with half the alphabet behind his or her name, and a whole host of accreditations to point at... I'll just go to the library.

Anyway, I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I come here for the people, as much as the information. To me, they're the most important part of the whole place.

Besides, professors and other "experts" have a tendency to be over-stuffed dicks who're much too impressed with themselves...

[mikegideon]

I very much like the goals, here.

All three proposals sound good but I suspect that implementing them AND keeping all three true to the intended goal is going to be difficult and require a lot of oversight; "best laid plans of Mice and Men", etc. as it's simply difficult to keep things like reputation points, etc. from not turning into or at least being perceived as some sort of popularity contest.

I'm not saying don't try; just adding a note of caution.

I agree 100%. Didn't we disagree earlier today?