Carrying a cane for self-defense purposes

[RobertNashville]

Hello all,

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to put this thread or not but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on carrying a cane either specifically for self-defense use and/or carrying for it's usual purposes but also because it can be used for self-defense?

I don't really need a cane to get around but I'm at an age that I could probably do so without raising suspicion and I do have one weak knee and could logically use that as a reason to carry one.

I can see an advantage as I can carry a cane in places I could never legally carry my firearm but I cant' help but wonder if the cane might make me more of a "target" by those who assume that since I have a cane I might be easier prey.

Any thoughts, experience to share would be appreciated. Thanks!

[daddyo]

If you are already using a cane, I can see where it might have some SD applications. As for carrying one specifically for that purpose, my M&P 45c makes a much better SD weapon and is much easier to conceal.

[Oh Shoot]

quick thoughts:

1. Pretty unlikely you'd ever be charged with unlawful weapon possession (club) just walking around anywhere with it.

2. If you ever had to beat someone with it, maybe it would come into play as to whether you had legitimate medical need for the cane or not, who knows. (Unlike a firearm, you aren't necessary exempt from the various weapons laws if used in justifiable self defense. I'd say this is a minor consideration, though.)

3. Could carry past most every posted place in the state, could even get in Knoxville City/County building with it, I guess! Could also likely fly with it.

4. Don't use a sword cane.

5. Avoid skull or other nasty looking cane grips.

- OS

[RobertNashville]

If you are already using a cane, I can see where it might have some SD applications. As for carrying one specifically for that purpose, my M&P 45c makes a much better SD weapon and is much easier to conceal.

And should I need to defend myself one of my SCARS is likely better than your .45 (or any of my .45s) but I don't carry a SCAR around with me for obvious reasons.

That's the premise of my question about carrying a cane...I can't carry a firearm everywhere, at least not legally but I don't know of anyplace offhand that posts against a cane and my thinking is that any weapon is likely better than no weapon at all which is what I now have when I am in a place that doesn't allow me to carry a firearm.

I'm not suggesting that a can is preferable and I can't imagine ever choosing to carry a care instead of a firearm if I have the option to legally carry a firearm.

Edited December 20, 2010 by RobertNashville

[MikePapa1]

I had a client recently who carried a baseball bat in his vehicle because he delivered newspapers and had a month before been bitten by a dog. He was stopped by an officer I know well and is, well, zealous in his desire to enforce every law to demonstrate his personal prowess, for a tail light being out. During the conversation, the officer asked why he had the baseball bat in the car. My client, much to his chagrin, answered the officer honestly, explaining the dog attack. He was promptly placed under arrest for Unlawful Possession of a Weapon for the purpose of going armed (TCA §39-17-1307). He bonded out and contacted me. We went to court and I was able to convince the judge to retire the charge. As we were leaving I advised my client that in the future, if he carried a baseball bat in his car, he should not tell the officer the truth but rather talk about having gone to a batting cage or something of the sort.

The bottom line is never suggest that anything that even looks like a "club" is carried for self defense, because do so makes carrying it a crime.

[DaveTN]

As we were leaving I advised my client that in the future, if he carried a baseball bat in his car, he should not tell the officer the truth but rather talk about having gone to a batting cage or something of the sort.

Are you an Attorney?

[MikePapa1]

Yes.

[Guest Jamie]

I can't believe the "Lawyer" underneath Mike's name didn't give him away...

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

quick thoughts:

2. If you ever had to beat someone with it, maybe it would come into play as to whether you had legitimate medical need for the cane or not, who knows. (Unlike a firearm, you aren't necessary exempt from the various weapons laws if used in justifiable self defense. I'd say this is a minor consideration, though.)

- OS

I am just going to tell them I was trying to look pimptastic

I had a client recently who carried a baseball bat in his vehicle because he delivered newspapers and had a month before been bitten by a dog. He was stopped by an officer I know well and is, well, zealous in his desire to enforce every law to demonstrate his personal prowess, for a tail light being out. During the conversation, the officer asked why he had the baseball bat in the car. My client, much to his chagrin, answered the officer honestly, explaining the dog attack. He was promptly placed under arrest for Unlawful Possession of a Weapon for the purpose of going armed (TCA §39-17-1307). He bonded out and contacted me. We went to court and I was able to convince the judge to retire the charge. As we were leaving I advised my client that in the future, if he carried a baseball bat in his car, he should not tell the officer the truth but rather talk about having gone to a batting cage or something of the sort.

The bottom line is never suggest that anything that even looks like a "club" is carried for self defense, because do so makes carrying it a crime.

Isnt that why you also carry a baseball and baseball glove in the vehicle?

[MikePapa1]

I have been, from time to time an avid supporter of America's pass time.

[Guest Jamie]

Okay, well, I found the pic I was looking for so I can give the OP a proper answer...

I have a bit of nerve damage in my left hip and leg, and when it acts up, I do occasionally use a cane to help keep me from falling on my ass. And I can tell you, if you don't need it to get around, it's a royal pain. It ties up one of your hands, it's always getting in the way or getting tangled up with something ( usually when getting in or out of the car, moving through crowds, etc. ), and is generally just a nuisance. So if you don't need it I'd just skip it altogether.

If you do need it, however, I'd certainly choose one that looks the least like a weapon. I made my own, and it certainly doesn't look like it'd do much damage. It's kind'a spindly-looking and is way too ornate to ever be taken seriously as a head buster. It is, however, constructed from the back half of a cheap pool cue and a piece of walnut from an old shotgun stock, so it's nowhere near as fragile as it looks. It's also really odd looking because I contoured the grip to fit my hand in the way I wanted. So it makes sense if you hold it, but none at all at first glance.

Anyway, here it is:

Edit: Here's a second pic that lest you see a little better how the grip is made. The flat spot/cupped area over the "hook" is intended for your thumb. And yes, it only works in your left hand:

I've carried that thing into all sorts of places, including a Federal courthouse.... Never told I couldn't bring it in.

It's never made me a target either, but then given my appearance, I'm not surprised.

So, if you can put up with the aggravation, I'd say go for it. You should be just fine. But I can promise you will feel like you've lost one arm and become a total klutz for at least a while, 'til you get used to hauling the thing around.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jamie

[Guest Ae-35]

If you don't have to "ride" one I don't recommend it, I left Vandy on one, rode it for a year, still have to use one in the woods ( hoe-handle ). Makes you a one handed shooter. I still have no feeling in my left leg from the hip to the knee, but I've managed to learn to walk without the cane and I do pretty good, problems going up hill or down. With a little training you can use it like a P 25, to keep someone off you.

[Guest FiddleDog]

A cane can be deadly in the hands of a Pencak Silat practitioner. I think that there is a teacher in the two rivers area that trained under Herman Suwanda. If you're not a Silat practitioner, then it's just a stick...which is better than nothing.

[Guest Jamie]

Kali and Escrima both teach stick fighting as well.

[RobertNashville]

Yes...if I chose to do this I'd be looking for training on making the best use of it. Unfortunately, were I ever involved in an altercation I can't help but wonder if any "training" was used against me in court as in trying to prove that my only intent on having a cane was for its potential as a weapon.

As I said, with a weak knee a cane could come in handy but it's not a true necessity for me so I don't know if my "need" would be sufficient to get me out of a criminal charge of illegally carrying a weapon (but it may be a better excuse than carrying around a baseball and glove in the trunk in the middle of winter.

[soapy]

Jamie,

nice job, sweet lookin cane. I'm working on getting off this walker and back to a cane again. Thats one of the nicest I have ever eyeballed.

[Guest buttonhook]

I have one of these when my "knee" is acting up BubbaStik.com it usally does when I travel

[Guest Jamie]

Jamie,

nice job, sweet lookin cane. I'm working on getting off this walker and back to a cane again. Thats one of the nicest I have ever eyeballed.

Thanks. That one is currently residing with my mom, but I have some tulip poplar and a nice piece of cedar set aside to season up while I plan the next one.

( I haven't needed one in a while now, since I finally got away from having to climb our driverway to get the youngster on the school bus anymore. But this winter may change that... dammit. )

I've also got a piece of well-seasoned Chinese oak and a sword blade that I'm contemplating putting together... Just for a "conversation piece", you understand.

[Guest TnRebel]

I use a cane to walk with as for the pin in my left hip and the ole arther, I have two genuine hand made Shillelagh that my grandfather handed down to me. Jamie yours is and art work

[JayC]

Mike,

I'm curious what you think the impact of the McDonald v Chicago ruling will have on the carrying of other 'arms' such as canes, clubs, knives etc for the purpose of self defense? Since the 2nd Amendment now covers states, could we possibly see successful challenges to complete bans on said "arms"?

I had a client recently who carried a baseball bat in his vehicle because he delivered newspapers and had a month before been bitten by a dog. He was stopped by an officer I know well and is, well, zealous in his desire to enforce every law to demonstrate his personal prowess, for a tail light being out. During the conversation, the officer asked why he had the baseball bat in the car. My client, much to his chagrin, answered the officer honestly, explaining the dog attack. He was promptly placed under arrest for Unlawful Possession of a Weapon for the purpose of going armed (TCA §39-17-1307). He bonded out and contacted me. We went to court and I was able to convince the judge to retire the charge. As we were leaving I advised my client that in the future, if he carried a baseball bat in his car, he should not tell the officer the truth but rather talk about having gone to a batting cage or something of the sort.

The bottom line is never suggest that anything that even looks like a "club" is carried for self defense, because do so makes carrying it a crime.

[DaveTN]

Since the 2nd Amendment now covers states,

[Guest The Driller]

my buddy had a cane with a knife in the handle lol. he called it his attitude ajuster

[MikePapa1]

You might see some challenges but I very much doubt their success. First, the 2nd Amendment is almost universally held to deal with firearms, not with clubs, knives or other types of weapons. Those weapons are not really regulated federally and without 2nd Amendment protection, states are free to deal with them in any manner they chose. Secondly, however, at at least as important, your question is, in essence, political rather than legal and frankly, knives, clubs, canes, etc., don't have the lobbying power to really do anything about these laws. I've never heard of, for example, the Tennessee Automatic Knife Association having a very good lobbyist in the General Assembly.

[JayC]

You might see some challenges but I very much doubt their success. First, the 2nd Amendment is almost universally held to deal with firearms, not with clubs, knives or other types of weapons. Those weapons are not really regulated federally and without 2nd Amendment protection, states are free to deal with them in any manner they chose. Secondly, however, at at least as important, your question is, in essence, political rather than legal and frankly, knives, clubs, canes, etc., don't have the lobbying power to really do anything about these laws. I've never heard of, for example, the Tennessee Automatic Knife Association having a very good lobbyist in the General Assembly.

Yeah, but the Heller opinion seems to state things other than firearms are covered by the 2nd Amendment... Clearly swords, tomahawks, bayonets would be covered by the 2nd Amendment since there were commonly issued and held arms at the time the Bill of Rights were ratified....

I think the focus is on firearms because they offer the easiest and best solution today for personal protection... It just seems to me that trying to make the argument that you can carry a firearm which is much easier to conceal and much more efficient at doing damage, negates the ability to argue that knives, canes, clubs, batons, etc which are much less dangerous must be banned outright?

I think it's a trap to say the 2nd Amendment only deals with firearms... I think as a lobby we should push that *any* weapon that can be used in self defense or the making of war that can be carried and operated by a single man/woman should be covered. My personal concern is that as technology advances and something is developed that is more effective than firearms, it should also be covered as an arm under the 2nd Amendment.

I believe you're correct it's hard to defend a good number of these laws on the books today, and without focused efforts to repeal, it's likely we won't see serious changes... I'm curious to see how Palmer v DC is resolved as I think that case could be our Brown v School Board case for 2nd Amendment supporters.

Edited December 23, 2010 by JayC

[RobertNashville]

Respectfully, as I've delved into the Constitution of late and the Second Amendment in particular, I don't believe the Second Amendment deals with "self defense" at all nor was that ever its intent. I've come to the conclusion, and I think a reasonable one, that the concept of the "right of self defense" is so basic to a person that the founders didn't see a need to codify it in the Constitution - I don't think they could every had imagined that such a concept would ever be called into question! After all, in order to pursue "Live, Liberty and Happiness" one must first be alive and stay alive and when confronted with a deadly threat, it should be beyond obvious that a person has a right to defend his live with whatever means are necessary gun, knife, stick, rock, brick...whatever.

In other words, while I DO believe that we have the right to defend ourselves including bearing arms to do so, I don't believe that is the purpose of the Second Amendment. That said, I'm more than glad we have the Second Amendment and more than happy to use it as part of any legal argument why we should be allowed to "go armed" for our own protection.