How far before you pull your weapon?

[Guest The Highlander]

I just caught up with this thread, and I've got to say I'm amazed at all the tangents this thing has taken. I'm no expert in anything, but I'll make an attempt to address the OP, and the sidebars that are going on.

To the OP:

As someone else said, you will probably know when the time is right to draw. Take the classes, get your HCP, GET MORE TRAINING, and PRACTICE. With the HCP, you have the ability to carry a weapon legally, should you decide to do so. There may only be times when you just wish to travel around in your car, and would like to have a weapon. The HCP will let you do that with not quite so many restrictions and liability as doing the same without the HCP. That reason alone may be worth the time and effort to you.

After the HCP class, in which you will learn about the legalities and responsibilities, you may feel more qualified to carry. Then search out a good training class, there are many all around, this forum would be a great place to seek out some. Then practice with the weapon, and your new knowledge. You will make an intelligent decision.

To the tangents this thread has taken:

A little disagreement is a fine thing. Sometimes it is just a difference in backgrounds and experiences. A while back, Tim Calhoun and I had a disagreement on shooting a handgun. Tim has a strong background in IPSC and action shooting, I am classically trained in bullseye, by some guy named Gary Anderson (google Gary Anderson shooter or you'll get the football player). That led to a big difference in opinions. But neither Tim, nor I got angry with each other, we just posted our sides, had a couple of PM's between each other, and I've found a new shooting buddy. I'd love to let Tim and some others teach me how to shoot while moving, heck, I was taught to not even breath, to try to control heartrate, and fire between heartbeats...a HUGE difference in background!

My point is, we will all have different views based on background, experiences, training, and just our general proclivities toward certain things. Doesn't make any of us infallible!

I try to read TGO and learn something while talking with a bunch of like-minded buddies. I don't have to worry that my gun-friendly status will make me the subject of ridicule all by itself (sure can at a dinner-party!).

Y'all keep it light, and we can all learn, and we can all teach. Just depends on the relative experience levels of the people in the conversation, which one we are doing at the time.

Just my $.02!

The Highlander

Edited December 17, 2010 by The Highlander
Made an oopsie.

[Fallguy]

Every great once in a while, the universe stutters to a stop for just a second, time stands still.... and Dave and I actually agree on something... Amazing, isn't it?

Had it happen to me a few times....It is scary isn't it...

[Guest Jamie]

More shocking/startling than scary...

The more I think on it the more I suspect it's probably a whole lot like being tazed...

Edited December 17, 2010 by Jamie

[Glock30]

To the OP:

Let the law be your guide. I have read and re-read and re-re-read the statutes regarding carry and will continue to do so. Read everything from when/where you can or can't carry, to what constitutes assault, to what your "affirmative defenses" are when a critical incident takes place. It's also not a bad idea to read through the criminal statutes and discover the legal definitions of key terms and different types of crime. It is extraordinarily helpful to have a working knowledge of the law and even more essential to you as a gun owner, and prospective carry permit holder, to KEEP EDUCATING YOURSELF on the world around you. Trying to learn the state you'll normally be in is bad enough (Tennessee), but always remember to keep up with other states' laws when you leave your home territory.

Handgun Carry Permit T.C.A. Codes

www.handgunlaw.us

[Guest Jamie]

To the OP:

Let the law be your guide. I have read and re-read and re-re-read the statutes regarding carry and will continue to do so. Read everything from when/where you can or can't carry, to what constitutes assault, to what your "affirmative defenses" are when a critical incident takes place. It's also not a bad idea to read through the criminal statutes and discover the legal definitions of key terms and different types of crime. It is extraordinarily helpful to have a working knowledge of the law and even more essential to you as a gun owner, and prospective carry permit holder, to KEEP EDUCATING YOURSELF on the world around you. Trying to learn the state you'll normally be in is bad enough (Tennessee), but always remember to keep up with other states' laws when you leave your home territory.

Handgun Carry Permit T.C.A. Codes

www.handgunlaw.us

You know, he's still got to learn the actual mechanics of what he needs to do once all the legal qualifications are met and he needs to actually... you know... do something?

There's a whole lot of hesitancy in his questions, and an outright lack of understanding of what he physically needs to be doing before "time to shoot" arrives... The whole "what if they jump on your back" thing, for instance... He really needs to know how to prevent or handle that before he worries too much about a gun.

Knowing that you're in the right legally and morally by choosing to use a gun is fine, but it does you no good if you've gotten yourself into a situation that prevents you from doing so, that you can't find a clear way out of. And it's the major reason I think he needs some hand-to-hand training.

The gun by it's self is just one tool... and he needs the full skill set concerning how to make the most of it.

[M1_Garand]

You know, he's still got to learn the actual mechanics of what he needs to do once all the legal qualifications are met and he needs to actually... you know... do something?

There's a whole lot of hesitancy in his questions, and an outright lack of understanding of what he physically needs to be doing before "time to shoot" arrives... The whole "what if they jump on your back" thing, for instance... He really needs to know how to prevent or handle that before he worries too much about a gun.

Knowing that you're in the right legally and morally by choosing to use a gun is fine, but it does you no good if you've gotten yourself into a situation that prevents you from doing so, that you can't find a clear way out of. And it's the major reason I think he needs some hand-to-hand training.

The gun by it's self is just one tool... and he needs the full skill set concerning how to make the most of it.

/\ Agreed. If you are going to take responsibility by carrying a firearm, you need to develop the right mindset - including good situational awareness. A lot of confrontations can simply be avoided by making good choices and recognizing potential dangers before you ever clear leather.

The way I see it, if guy has jumped on my back, I've probably screwed up in some massive way by putting myself in that situation to begin with.

[Guest Jamie]

"Probably"?

[M1_Garand]

"Probably"?

Ok, 'definitely' then.

[DavidD]

My short answer is.....pretty damn far.....

I will pull my weapon when I need to; not just because I am justified in pulling it.

I will take an azz whipping before I will shoot someone.

I will not be in a fight or running my mouth while I am armed, so it would require that someone be attacking me while I am trying to walk away.

I carry a weapon to defend myself if I am attacked by a criminal; not so I can scare someone when I have let my mouth overload my azz.

I will not risk going to prison and leaving my family alone, or financially destroying my family by having to defend myself in a shooting. Please don’t post stupid clichés like “It is better to be ….â€

entertainment.

Excellent posts! I couldn't agree more with the whole "avoid trouble" mindset Guy and Dave are speaking of. I see (and read) so many that get the whole "Don't mess with me I've got a gun and will shoot you" attitude and believe that these people are just this side of the people which give us the reasons we all carry.

Oh, and the whole "Punisher is a meany head" thing really got me going...Dude

[Guest Jamie]

Ok, 'definitely' then.

Seeing as how that whole "jump on their back" thing would seem to be the tactics of high school brawls, frat parties, and drunk women, I have to say that if it happens to an adult in any normal daily activity... that they have definitely... SERIOUSLY... made an error in judgment somewhere along the way...

But maybe that's just me. :-\

[tnhawk]

I was looking in the gun safe to see which pistol would get some exercise today, then started reading this.

[M1_Garand]

Seeing as how that whole "jump on their back" thing would seem to be the tactics of high school brawls, frat parties, and drunk women, I have to say that if it happens to an adult in any normal daily activity... that they have definitely... SERIOUSLY... made an error in judgment somewhere along the way...

But maybe that's just me. :-\

The only time I ever had anybody jump on my back was in college, and she was drunk - but she didn't want to fight. I exercised my better judgment and left the room before it got any further.

[A.J. Holst]

M1,

Drunk chick, not willing to put a fight and you left?

You sir, are a true gentleman!

[Guest Jamie]

Damn... last woman that jumped on my back was pissed 'cause I was stuffing her hubby into the back seat of a patrol car...

The good news was that she got to ride along with him...

...just as soon as we picked her up off the ground.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

If he gets your gun, you are as good as dead.

I'm with Jamie -- if someone has assaulted me or if they are obviously about to (charging toward me, for example), they are going to be on the receiving end of a lead overdose.

Not necessarily this is why alot of us carry bugs.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

People can give scenarios all day long and someone will always have an answer for that scenario, but

until you are in a situation where you need to draw, I imagine there will always be doubt.

I look at every place I go and consider what could happen. I do a little mental exercise and try to

become a bit more aware of possible situations where I might have to draw my weapon, all the while

hoping I never have to. I have only become concerned a couple of times and have avoided situations,

so far. I'd say Jamie has some good experience to "draw" from. I don't expect to have to use my

weapon, but I'm damned sure thinking about it everywhere I go. I'm usually a easy going guy and

don't like to get into arguments. I'm a bit polite. Someone else will always cause the problem and if

I see a problem I try to get to a defendable or safe position so I don't have to get caught up in the

moment and do something dumb. If it gets to the hair tingling phase and I don't have time to do that,

it's probably not going to end well for someone, hopefully the other guy.

There ain't no easy answer.

Same here I am always looking for an escape route and surveying the situation and surroundings. I adapt accordingly but always try and have the tactical advantage should the "crap ever hit the fan".

[Guest tnxdshooter]

The only time I ever had anybody jump on my back was in college, and she was drunk - but she didn't want to fight. I exercised my better judgment and left the room before it got any further.

The only time it ever happened to me is I was drinking with some friends at a party. Some dude that was like 5ft2 and weighed probably 70 pounds said I was staring at him and he jumped on my back when I ignored him. At which time he got judo flipped over my shoulder and onto the ground and a boot to the throat before he even knew what was up. No one has ever tried to jump on my back since.

[M1_Garand]

Damn... last woman that jumped on my back was pissed 'cause I was stuffing her hubby into the back seat of a patrol car...

The good news was that she got to ride along with him...

...just as soon as we picked her up off the ground.

Yeah, that doesn't sound fun. At least she got to spend some quality time with her husband - I love a story with a happy ending.

[Guest Jamie]

Yeah, that doesn't sound fun. At least she got to spend some quality time with her husband - I love a story with a happy ending.

You know what's really funny about it?

She called us on HIM. But then didn't want him going to jail.

And yes, both were drunk, her worse than him though. Go figure. :-\

[DavidD]

You know what's really funny about it?

She called us on HIM. But then didn't want him going to jail.

That always amazes me. Woman calls for help but then doesn't want anything bad to happen to the ________ when help arrives.

[MikePapa1]

It happens ALL the time. By the time they get to court, they're often willing to commit perjury to defend them. A couple of weeks ago, in Sumner General Sessions, they took a "victim" into custody for False Reporting because she changed her story in Court. Isn't love grand?

[DavidD]

It happens ALL the time. By the time they get to court, they're often willing to commit perjury to defend them. A couple of weeks ago, in Sumner General Sessions, they took a "victim" into custody for False Reporting because she changed her story in Court. Isn't love grand?

Hate that the victim is further victimized but that is the way it should be.

[Guest Jamie]

Hate that the victim is further victimized but that is the way it should be.

Before the laws were changed and the victim her/his self had to press charges, it was usually the police and the tax payers that were actually the most victimized... because 50 to 75% of the time, the person would wait 'til right before court and drop the charges. That pretty much meant that everyone's time was wasted.

After about 1997... 98? all that changed and none of the parties involved can drop the charges. They can only change their stories and run into trouble because of that.

[Fallguy]

You know what's really funny about it?

She called us on HIM. But then didn't want him going to jail.

And yes, both were drunk, her worse than him though. Go figure. :-\

When I dispatched always found it funny when the one who called was the one arrested.

Most of the time I could tell when it was going to happen and I'd be thinking to myself, I really don't think you want them to come...

[K191145]

When I dispatched always found it funny when the one who called was the one arrested.

Most of the time I could tell when it was going to happen and I'd be thinking to myself, I really don't think you want them to come...

I am reminded of the show COPS when they were in Nashville, a truck driver called the cops when one of the prostitutes he solicited stole his wallet, after questioning the two prostitutes admitted they took the wallet, all were surprised and crying that they were arrested. Makes you wonder what goes through, or doesn't go through some peoples minds.