How far before you pull your weapon?

[Fallguy]

Sorry,

I mis-spoke.

Not charged with brandishing charged for brandishing.

Better?

[Guest spoolie]

I think the OP needs to think hard before taking the course...or carrying. If you're second guessing yourself this much already.....I'm just saying.

Edited December 17, 2010 by spoolie
too many grammar errors

[K191145]

If I really feel i'm in a situation where I have no other option, then try to convince the cop or DA I had no other option. Better tried by 12 than carried by 6 as they say. I did draw on a mongrel psycho dog once before I saw he was on a chain, no shots fired. I had a real feeling of danger from being mauled, the dog was so much in an attack mode that when the chain caught he did a flip. I'm glad it happened though and glad I didn't have to shoot the dog, it was a good test of how fast I could draw a 1911 and disengage the safety under fear and stress. It's all up to the individual on how they feel at the time. In HPC class the instructor talked about three things that should be met, intention, capability, and opportunity. Intention, the BG says i'm going to kill you, beat you, cut you, or he shows a weapon ect. Opportunity, he's close enough to harm you or has a weapon that can harm you from any distance ect. Capability, anyone physically capable of causing you harm. Might not want to shoot the 80 year old lady swinging her purse at you.

[Guest Jamie]

I think the OP needs to think hard before taking the course...or carrying. If you're second guessing yourself this much already.....I just saying.

Yeah, maybe some hand-to-hand classes first, so he can fully understand a few of the basics of combat/fighting... 'Cause I don't get the impression he's ever been in any kind of fight in his entire life.

[Guest Jamie]

... Might not want to shoot the 80 year old lady swinging her purse at you.

Depends on what's in the purse... Some of that "old lady" perfume qualifies as a chemical weapon, or weapon of mass destruction, and I know it.

[RobertNashville]

So I got to thinking last night just out of boredom really. How far can someone take something before you would feel the need to pull your weapon? Granted I haven't even gotten my HCP yet, but just kinda curious.

For instance, You were in some sort of place of business(store, restaurant, whatever)....something happens and here is some macho man trying to pick a fight with you for whatever reason(he thinks you were checking out his woman...lol). At what point does it go from "Some dude being an idiot" to "I feel I need to draw my weapon"....And it being reasonably justified? I mean if you just think "this guy is gonna take a swing at me"...is that enough, or what?

I know that is probably a really broad question, and could vary depending on the circumstances and location probably, so feel free to through you own scenario(s) in there if need be.

Do yourself a favor; before you carry a weapon, get and read "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob" (ISBN-10: 0936279001 /ISBN-13: 978-0936279008).

Don't concentrate on the "legal" stuff because much of it is outdated (nor specific to Tennessee) but as a general discussion of the responsibility you take on by carrying a firearm you would be hard pressed to find anything better.

[Oh Shoot]

Do yourself a favor; before you carry a weapon, get and read "In The Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob" ...

There an echo in here, or is it just me?

- OS

[Guest Jamie]

Now O.S., you know some folks can't be bothered to read the whole thread... even if it's only 4 pages long.

[Oh Shoot]

Now O.S., you know some folks can't be bothered to read the whole thread... even if it's only 4 pages long.

Heck, just one page and 3 posts on second page to me (30 posts per page setting).

- OS

[Erik88]

Yeah, maybe some hand-to-hand classes first, so he can fully understand a few of the basics of combat/fighting... 'Cause I don't get the impression he's ever been in any kind of fight in his entire life.

Really Jamie? You can gather all that just because he asked a simple question? I don't think there is anything wrong with him wondering these things ahead of time. In today's world it's not as simple as we would like. Even when you are in fear for your life, the DA might not see it the same way. Witnesses lie, or it's "your word against his". I don't know why you guys feel the need to put him down just because he's trying to educate himself before getting his permit.

I am constantly on different forums reading stories about people who defend themselves while carrying. I don't do it because I'm paranoid but rather to learn from each situation so that I will hopefully know what to do if I'm ever in a similar situation.

Dustin, all I can say is that the likelihood of ever having to use your weapon while carrying is pretty slim, but should that time arise you will most likely know without a doubt that it is time to draw, or shoot.

[Punisher84]

I think the OP needs to think hard before taking the course...or carrying. If you're second guessing yourself this much already.....I'm just saying.

Yup. Bubba is gonna get killed with his own gun or beat to death long before he draws.

[mikegideon]

If I really feel i'm in a situation where I have no other option, then try to convince the cop or DA I had no other option. Better tried by 12 than carried by 6 as they say. I did draw on a mongrel psycho dog once before I saw he was on a chain, no shots fired. I had a real feeling of danger from being mauled, the dog was so much in an attack mode that when the chain caught he did a flip. I'm glad it happened though and glad I didn't have to shoot the dog, it was a good test of how fast I could draw a 1911 and disengage the safety under fear and stress. It's all up to the individual on how they feel at the time. In HPC class the instructor talked about three things that should be met, intention, capability, and opportunity. Intention, the BG says i'm going to kill you, beat you, cut you, or he shows a weapon ect. Opportunity, he's close enough to harm you or has a weapon that can harm you from any distance ect. Capability, anyone physically capable of causing you harm. Might not want to shoot the 80 year old lady swinging her purse at you.

I had one try to attack me once. I just blew a plug out of the ground in front of him, and he changed his mind. Second round would have gone into the dog.

[Erik88]

Yup. Bubba is gonna get killed with his own gun or beat to death long before he draws.

these are the kinds of responses that really get old on TGO. The OP asked a pretty simple question and was just wanting some feedback. Instead of putting him down, why not offer some useful advice? What is so wrong with him questioning when it is appropriate to draw?

It's these responses that make it really hard to ask a question on TGO without fear of being belittled or ridiculed. And also why some of our members are not even posting here anymore(aka Bronker)

Edited December 17, 2010 by Erik88

[Punisher84]

these are the kinds of responses that really get old on TGO. The OP asked a pretty simple question and was just wanting some feedback. Instead of putting him down, why not offer some useful advice? What is so wrong with him questioning when it is appropriate to draw?

It's these responses that make it really hard to ask a question on TGO without fear of being belittled or ridiculed. And also why some of our members are not even posting here anymore(aka Bronker)

Point taken and I'm honestly not trying to harsh on the guy, but by his own posts he's admitted he's basically scared to carry due to liability. He needs proper training and education by certified instructors, not differing opinions of gun forum members. TGO is great for information, but it can also be a minefield of bad information for a new gun owner.

My point was if he carries a gun with that mindset he is going to most likely get killed with his own gun or hurt/killed because he waits too long to use it.

[Guest cheez]

these are the kinds of responses that really get old on TGO. The OP asked a pretty simple question and was just wanting some feedback. Instead of putting him down, why not offer some useful advice? What is so wrong with him questioning when it is appropriate to draw?

It's these responses that make it really hard to ask a question on TGO without fear of being belittled or ridiculed. And also why some of our members are not even posting here anymore(aka Bronker)

I have invited 11 people to join here. All but one are gone because they asked the "wrong" question and got ripped for it by the "experts"

[Punisher84]

I have invited 11 people to join here. All but one are gone because they asked the "wrong" question and got ripped for it by the "experts"

You know I'm gonna take the time to kinda prop up the other end of that spectrum. We've had alot of new members come on and conduct themselves just as bad or worse than any of us that have been here a few years.

Also, I'm fine helping someone out but there is a search function here. When someone asks the same question over and over it gets old. I get that people come to things with no experience, but how you pose your question has alot to do with it.

There are people here who ARE experts. LEOs, military, instructors, and people who have just spent alot of time around guns. Sure there is BS, but the Internet is full of that. I honestly wonder how some people who get so riled up on here about the way someone answered a question can cope in the real world.

[SHOOTERTN]

i know im kinda new here but i wanna add my input on this,when the time is right you will know when to use your weapon if its a fair fight 1 on 1 there is no real reason to shoot any one maybe just be a man and leave before it gets to that,but if he has a weapon or there are 2 or 3 or 4 of them i could see them able to cause you severe bodily injury but its my personal opinion and i may feel differant about every situation than you,all i can say is when you carry a firearm you are essentially carrying a gun to use it against another human being and if you cant come to terms with possibly taking a life then its not for you,i recently got my permit and its wierd for me to carry my gun loaded.but i know if it came to me using it i would be in big trouble i mean i cant ask the criminal to please give me a moment to collect my thoughts decide if my life is in danger and cock my weapon,its not a perfect world and when the time comes you will be ready and know thats the ONLY option

[Punisher84]

i know im kinda new here but i wanna add my input on this,when the time is right you will know when to use your weapon if its a fair fight 1 on 1 there is no real reason to shoot any one maybe just be a man and leave before it gets to that,but if he has a weapon or there are 2 or 3 or 4 of them i could see them able to cause you severe bodily injury but its my personal opinion and i may feel differant about every situation than you,all i can say is when you carry a firearm you are essentially carrying a gun to use it against another human being and if you cant come to terms with possibly taking a life then its not for you,i recently got my permit and its wierd for me to carry my gun loaded.but i know if it came to me using it i would be in big trouble i mean i cant ask the criminal to please give me a moment to collect my thoughts decide if my life is in danger and cock my weapon,its not a perfect world and when the time comes you will be ready and know thats the ONLY option

+1

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

I honestly wonder how some people who get so riled up on here about the way someone answered a question can cope in the real world.

See, I've always wondered how people who get all riled up when someone asks a somewhat repetitive question on the internet cope in the real world.

The OP asks a legitimate question and, for those of us who can drop our internet-tough-guy persona for a minute, it's something we've all considered and debated internally at some time in our tenure carrying a firearm. It is NOT something that can be taught in a class or by an instructor, unless you're foolish enough to believe that the world is a black and white place. It is not.

My short answer is.....pretty damn far. Carrying a firearm means you have to take a higher standard of care to avoid these types of confrontations. Personally, I tend to avoid the types of places these encounters tend to happen altogether. You have to be able to put your ego away when you are carrying a gun. No more mouthing off to some redneck catcalling on the street. No more engaging in bird-flipping to some other driver who doesn't like the way you drive. You have to live your life to a higher moral standard that the average ******* on the street, and you have to avoid confrontation at all costs. When you keep these things in mind, it forces your opponent to become an overt aggressor, and it becomes more obvious to any witnesses that you are truly the victim in the scenario.

Three things must exist for you to use lethal force. 1)Proximity- your attacker must be close enough to cause you harm. 2)Intent- your attacker must clearly mean to cause you harm. 3) Capacity- your attacker must have the ability to cause you grave bodily injury. You'll hear those labeled differently, but the intent in the same. So, if a 5' 115 lb woman starts wailing empty handed on a 6' 250 lb man, she has 1 and 2, but not 3, so no deadly force would be allowed. Conversely, deadly force would probably be acceptable if the reverse was true. In another example, pulling a weapon might be acceptable if 3 or 4 guys were attacking you together, even if they weren't armed (assuming you've done nothing to provoke them and have tried to de-escalate the situation.) That's called disparity of force.....and it's in your attacker's favor. The gun simply levels the playing field. I could go on for pages with different examples, and we could debate them for months without resolution.

As an adult, do you often find yourself in these types of situations? Personally, I do not. Fistfights might seem like a good idea as a dumb kid, but they lose their appeal pretty quickly in adulthood. If you regularly find yourself in verbal pissing matches that escalate, then you might want to reconsider carrying a firearm. If you think you can avoid silly confrontation, and are willing to swallow your ego if some dumb redneck wants to get in your face, then you'll be fine.

Finally, consider less-than-lethal defense options in addition to your firearm. When I lived in New Orleans, I always carried pepper spray, and I used it on more than one occasion on drunk tourists or aggressive homeless people. The same "higher moral standard" still applies (or risk and assault charge), but it's a great option when you enter one of those gray areas.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Guy N. Cognito

[Guest CJK]

See, I've always wondered how people who get all riled up when someone asks a somewhat repetitive question on the internet cope in the real world.

The OP asks a legitimate question ...<snip>

[Punisher84]

See, I've always wondered how people who get all riled up when someone asks a somewhat repetitive question on the internet cope in the real world.

The OP asks a legitimate question and, for those of us who can drop our internet-tough-guy persona for a minute, it's something we've all considered and debated internally at some time in our tenure carrying a firearm. It is NOT something that can be taught in a class or by an instructor, unless you're foolish enough to believe that the world is a black and white place. It is not.

.

Ok. Aside from the whole you don't like me and I don't like you pissing match thing you've got going let's get down to it. It doesn't piss me off when people ask the same question repeatedly, I said it gets old. I didn't blast the guy, I made a serious statement. He is, by his own admission, not ready to carry a firearm.

Firearms instructors, quality ones, can be a great source of information. I don't know where you received you're training or information. Born with the knowledge of the ancients I guess. No training is the end all be all, but quality training and instruction is much better than listening to the wide swath of misinformation and general asshattery that can be found here on many occasions.

I know you won't accept that from me and that's fine man keep chugging on with the whole "Punisher is a meany head" thing you got going, but it's the truth and the rest of your post was actually good information.

[Guest Jamie]

Really Jamie? You can gather all that just because he asked a simple question? I don't think there is anything wrong with him wondering these things ahead of time. In today's world it's not as simple as we would like. Even when you are in fear for your life, the DA might not see it the same way. Witnesses lie, or it's "your word against his". I don't know why you guys feel the need to put him down just because he's trying to educate himself before getting his permit.

I am constantly on different forums reading stories about people who defend themselves while carrying. I don't do it because I'm paranoid but rather to learn from each situation so that I will hopefully know what to do if I'm ever in a similar situation.

Dustin, all I can say is that the likelihood of ever having to use your weapon while carrying is pretty slim, but should that time arise you will most likely know without a doubt that it is time to draw, or shoot.

No, Erik, not by him asking a simple question.

But his MULTIPLE questions... and his OTHER STATEMENTS... tell us a bit about him.

I answered his first question.

Then he asked another... which I also answered. Even though the answer was something that anybody who's ever been attacked should know without thinking about it: You fight back.

And then there's his STATEMENT: "I guess stuff like this is one reason why I haven't gotten my HCP yet. I am not sure enough in myself to know that I would react in a situation appropriately."

Sorry, but in talking to people, even here on the internet, you learn things about them, or are given an impression of them by their choice of words, manner of speaking/writing, the type(s) of questions they ask and how they react to the answers.

And yes, I think Bubba needs a few hand-to-hand classes or training of some sort. 'Cause he's obviously clueless as to what he should or needs to do. And that's not meant as a slur or a put-down, but simply as an observation and statement of fact. and it's not based on a simple question alone. Read the whole damned thread and you might discover an entire conversation.

He seems to want to learn, and I'm doing my best to point him in the right direction, based on input from him.

What more could anybody ask?

[Guest Jamie]

these are the kinds of responses that really get old on TGO. The OP asked a pretty simple question and was just wanting some feedback. Instead of putting him down, why not offer some useful advice? What is so wrong with him questioning when it is appropriate to draw?

It's these responses that make it really hard to ask a question on TGO without fear of being belittled or ridiculed. And also why some of our members are not even posting here anymore(aka Bronker)

Erik, this kind of response "Really Jamie? You can gather all that just because he asked a simple question?" gets kind'a tiresome to y'know... Especially when there's a helluva lot more to it than that.

...just sayin'.

[K191145]

these are the kinds of responses that really get old on TGO. The OP asked a pretty simple question and was just wanting some feedback. Instead of putting him down, why not offer some useful advice? What is so wrong with him questioning when it is appropriate to draw?

It's these responses that make it really hard to ask a question on TGO without fear of being belittled or ridiculed. And also why some of our members are not even posting here anymore(aka Bronker)

+1

People who can't respond without being smart a$$ to someone are not nearly as much of an expert about everything as they think they are.

Edited December 17, 2010 by K191145

[SHOOTERTN]

we are all correct in our own way the only thing we may not all agree on is who is a crybaby little you know what but who cares, its the same as real life be the bigger man and walk away who cares who is right and wrong at the end of the day, we all live ,we all love, and then we all die, lets be grown men here enjoy being able to have a great conversation with ppl who also love guns.The senior members here are supposed to be looked up to and be great information.But hell yall cant stop argueing lets all be role models to all the others supporting our 2nd amendment and also the new members just looking for some sound advice if you dont agree, make it in your own words dont try and be a bigger man and prove them wrong maybe they got the wrong info from some *******.and they just need to be set straight.lets all just get along and provide the best experience available to all members new and old just my 2c

Edited December 17, 2010 by shootertn