1911? :)

[RobertNashville]

I thought we were all pals here, having friendly discussions and such. I can cruise through the caliber wars, the 1911 threads, Glock threads, etc., and feel no personal animus. But this last thing...I'm afraid I just can't countenance it, not even a little bit. There's some men out there that are just plain wrong, so allow me to explain:

Dr. Pepper is now, and always shall be, the finest non-alcoholic beverage on the planet. There is no other!

That is all. If you choose to disagree, you choose to be wrong. Someday, your grandchildren will taste the 23 flavors, wonder what was wrong with you, and then hope it wasn't genetic.

Very true...there is not much else in the world more personal or more important the knowing what the best soft-drink on the planet is...it's sad you've made the wrong choice but at least we are free to disagree.

[RobertNashville]

well said... i just can't justify dropping $1200 on a gun for the name... I'm sure the milling is perfect on those...but it's not worth $1200 perfect to me, I'm shooting it not putting it in a glass case...

I own a few "high-end" 1911's and a couple of less expensive ones as well as a couple of Glocks, a Ruger and an HK45 and others. I love shooting my high-end 1911s...I also love shooting my less expensive ones! But, whether they are "worth" the extra $$$ compared to a basic 1911; only you, the guy laying down the $bills can answer that.

For most of my life, I've had only less expensive 1911s; but I've moved onto more expensive ones because I could and because I appreciate the real, albeit sometimes subtle, differences in quality. That doesn't mean the less expensive weren't good firearms or wouldn't do the job but there are differences that, for me, make the extra expense worth it.

It's the same with vehicles...most people can get by with much less (and less expensive) vehicles than they usually go out and buy but they still will often buy the more expensive (more luxury/technology/etc.) if they can afford it (oftentimes even if they can't afford it!). But, the little, basic ecno-box will generally get them where they need to go just as well as a Lexus sedan (just not as comfortably).

[mikegideon]

I think Tim Calhoun summed it up nicely. If you are going to shoot thousands of rounds a year, like he does, you probably need to stick with the better guns so they don't wear out. For guys like me that don't shoot a 1911 that often, my Springer GI is just fine. It works, and I'll never wear it out.

Edited December 16, 2010 by mikegideon
Brain fart

[graycrait]

I would be interested to see if a Springfield Armory Mil Spec (Imbul Brasil made) would last as long as a Les Baer before needing a rebuild.

Anyone seen an endurance test comparison test between a high end 1911 and the econo version?

My former AMU gunsmith told me that their 50 meter bullseye 1911s needed to be rebuilt every 3-5000 rds. I wonder if the high end (thinking that they must be tighter) have the same issues.

This is not a criticism, just a point of curiosity.

Craig in Clarksville.

[timcalhoun]

I would be interested to see if a Springfield Armory Mil Spec (Imbul Brasil made) would last as long as a Les Baer before needing a rebuild.

Anyone seen an endurance test comparison test between a high end 1911 and the econo version?

My former AMU gunsmith told me that their 50 meter bullseye 1911s needed to be rebuilt every 3-5000 rds. I wonder if the high end (thinking that they must be tighter) have the same issues.

This is not a criticism, just a point of curiosity.

Craig in Clarksville.

5 thousand rounds is like nothing for a custom built gun. It is just broken in well at that point. I will admit I know nothing about bullseye but I do know one of the best bullseye smiths in the nation who I can ask. Heck I have over 50K through my one competition gun and it is still printing groups as good as the first 5K. I'll check on that.

Here is a email I dug up that I sent a friend who was asking about this very subject. It's too long but will clarify what I mean:

Okay so let's talk about two hypothetical guns and compare them. A new out of the box factory 1911 that runs 100% and a full custom 1911 built by someone who knows what they are doing and of course runs 100%. Is the extra money worth it for the custom gun? Since we know they both function 100% why pay more for the same result? Or do you actually get the same results ultimately?

Most anyone can pick these two guns up and rack the slides and feel that they are different. When you rack the slide on the high dollar gun, it feels like two pieces of glass sliding together with KY jelly in between and you can't wiggle the slide on the frame at all, and it moves in one perceived seamless motion. The factory gun kinda jerks in spots and maybe even feels a little gritty and has a loose slide to frame fit that you can wiggle a bit. Tearing the guns down further you check the fit of the barrel. When you drop the factory gun's barrel in the slide and down in the lugs, you can wiggle it front to back and left to right. When you do the same to the custom gun it just will not wiggle in any direction. I could go on and on about every part like this but you get the picture. We all know that the high dollar gun is fit better and use "better" parts. I know, I can hear you say " Bid deal, my Kimber goes bang every time and it is very accurate too and I didn't have to mortgage the house. I understand..........I do.

Well, a really well fit gun will do a couple of important things way better. The obvious thing of course is accuracy. You should easily expect 1 inch groups at 25 yards with a well made gun. Most factory guns simply wont get close to that no matter what the rag mags say. The other is longevity. You can easily expect to replace your barrel a couple of times and the gun should still be running like a watch and you will be stunned at how tight the slide to frame fit remains. Most all over the counter guns start to beat themselves to death in 1/4 of the round count of a well built custom. Factory guns are often fit slightly wrong and yet the gun may run for thousands and thousands of rounds before a problem rears its ugly head. Everything from simple malfunctions to catastrophic failure. I remember one gun I had that the tip of the extractor hook was only part of the extractor to touch the round, it had zero pressure on the round, and yet I had shot about 3 thousand rounds out of that gun without a single problem. I'm sure FTE problems were Imminent LOL. Then if the barrel is not quite right you can have barrel lugs/feet sheared off, barrel links broke etc..... And again it might not happen for many, many thousands of rounds conceivably. All the while you are thinking the gun is rock solid and built right.

Then you have the another aspect of performance. If you know what to have built, you can build a gun that even in the same hands and same load, will be a much better shooter than a factory gun. It will be faster on target (between shots) and transitioning between targets. I'm not talking about a race gun necessarily either. My carry gun looks like a factory gun. A custom gun maker can remove metal strategically, manipulate the mass of the slide, help get your grip higher on the gun so that your arm is more on line with the center of the bore, move the balance point of the gun to the shooters preference and tune the trigger to fit the shooter no matter what they like, want or need. A gun that flips much less and is more controllable on recoil will always be faster no matter the talent of the shooter. I think this is where most folks fail to realize how a true custom can be "worth it".

So yes, I think that a custom is well worth it in many ways for many people. But not to everyone, that is for sure.

I personally have no desire for a Porsche 911 since my 4X4 will get me everywhere I want to go that the sports car will and if fits who I am better. But I can see why they are worth the money to some folks. Come to think of it though..........if I drove a car in the hopes that it may save my life, I may have a Porsche in my driveway (particularly if I could get one for 2500 bucks). LOL

Edited December 17, 2010 by timcalhoun

[mav]

That pretty much sums it up tim. That is one of the best responses I have read thus far regarding higher end 1911s. Thanks for sharing.

Willis68 had recommended my new 1911, which I have yet to receive (8-15 month wait period). The Springfield Professional. After reading about all the unbelieveable testing the gun went through in the competition for the FBI contract, I knew it was the gun I wanted. Will this gun be a competition gun? Nope. Will it be a safe queen? Nope, don't own any of those since all of my guns are shot frequently. It will be my EDC and range gun.

Could I use a Glock or Sig etc... as my EDC? You bet. I own both and love shooting them. Outside of my Mark III Hunter, my Glock 34 is the gun I shoot the most. However, I have a preference to 1911s. I love the way they fit in my hand. The 1911 being sexy is just an added benefit. Could I effectively use a Kimber, RIA, S&W, etc... as my EDC 1911? Absolutely, and I did for quite a while (Kimber Ultra Raptor II). When I got in my Wilson CQB and Nighthawk T3 I realized that I am quite a bit more accurate with both of them in comparison to both of my Kimbers. With that in mind, they were the guns I want in my hand if the situation ever called for it. So, in short, the extra money (as I stated in an earlier post) was worth it to me.