Can we ignore the old bar signs?

[Jonnin]

I noticed lately that a lot of places still have the old signs up that say "it is illegal to carry weapons where alcohol is served, doing so is a crime and you pay a fine and stuff". These signs often look like they were posted 20 years ago, from the discoloring, and nothing else is posted on the door or anything. It looks for all the world like they just do not know that the law was changed, and that the state is not going out of its way to ensure that these signs are removed.

Do we just ignore them? That is what I have been doing.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

Those old signs no longer have any legal effect.

[JayC]

The law referenced in those signs have been repealed.... But, they've been up for so long it maybe decades before they're all taken down... Health inspectors and ABC inspectors aren't mentioning to restaurants the signs aren't required anymore...

[Fallguy]

Those old signs no longer have any legal effect.

Actually they never had any legal effect to prohibit carry, only warned of the consequences of illegal carry.

But as JayC said, not only had 39-17-1305 been repealed, but the laws that required those signs to be posted have been repealed as well.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

True. I was just meaning they do not satisfy the current posting requirements. I think alot of places leave them out of habit or maybe just to satisfy the anti-gun crowd members that arent smart enough to know what the actual law is lol

[RobertNashville]

I doubt they carry any legal weight as they don't really convey whether this particular business establishment does or does not allow firearms in the establishment. That said, if you are concerned about whether that bar does or does not bar firearms, I'd ask.

[daddyo]

I noticed lately that a lot of places still have the old signs up that say "it is illegal to carry weapons where alcohol is served, doing so is a crime and you pay a fine and stuff". These signs often look like they were posted 20 years ago, from the discoloring, and nothing else is posted on the door or anything. It looks for all the world like they just do not know that the law was changed, and that the state is not going out of its way to ensure that these signs are removed.

Do we just ignore them? That is what I have been doing.

Yes.

[Fallguy]

True. I was just meaning they do not satisfy the current posting requirements. I think alot of places leave them out of habit or maybe just to satisfy the anti-gun crowd members that arent smart enough to know what the actual law is lol

Maybe...I've always thought it was just most places were ignorant of the law....lol

I doubt they carry any legal weight as they don't really convey whether this particular business establishment does or does not allow firearms in the establishment. That said, if you are concerned about whether that bar does or does not bar firearms, I'd ask.

Asking is generally frowned upon because it may cause a place to legally post when they aren't currently. Also if the owner directly tells you he doesn't want you armed while there, you can't legally carry there regardless of whether it is posted or not.

As I said, those signs never carried any legal weight to prohibit carry.

[RobertNashville]

I'm not sure I agree with the theory that asking precipitates posting...stranger things have happened of course.

For me, I'd rather know one way or the other 1) so there is no chance I'm carrying where it could cause a legal problem later and 2) because I don't like to give my custom to any business that doesn't welcome my firearm as much as they welcome me and my money!

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

I'm not sure I agree with the theory that asking precipitates posting...stranger things have happened of course.

For me, I'd rather know one way or the other 1) so there is no chance I'm carrying where it could cause a legal problem later and 2) because I don't like to give my custom to any business that doesn't welcome my firearm as much as they welcome me and my money!

To point:

1) If the place is not posted you are not breaking the law until you are informed by the proprietor to leave and refuse or they post.

[RobertNashville]

To point:

1) If the place is not posted you are not breaking the law until you are informed by the proprietor to leave and refuse or they post.

Understood and I agree...I just don't want some stupid business/bar owner trying to make the argument that the old sign was enough to give me a clue about their policy (even though I think most of us agree that it doesn't)...that's why if I was at all concerned (which I assumed you might be) I would ask so I knew for sure.

And as I said, if my gun isn't welcome I don't want to spend my money there anyway.

[Guest buttonhook]

all they can do is ask you to leave....they dont even need a sign for that and the punishment for not leaving is the same either way armed or not

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

Understood and I agree...I just don't want some stupid business/bar owner trying to make the argument that the old sign was enough to give me a clue about their policy (even though I think most of us agree that it doesn't)...that's why if I was at all concerned (which I assumed you might be) I would ask so I knew for sure.

And as I said, if my gun isn't welcome I don't want to spend my money there anyway.

True. I just personally choose not to ask as to not bring attention to the fact that they are not legally posted and that I carry. Maybe with a sole proprietorship it could possibly become an issue with the owner's intent but I doubt it would hold much water with the LEO or a court of law. However most of the places I carry that have the old signs are chain stores and restruarants and if company policy was against carry I figure they would have posted by now

[JayC]

True. I was just meaning they do not satisfy the current posting requirements. I think alot of places leave them out of habit or maybe just to satisfy the anti-gun crowd members that arent smart enough to know what the actual law is lol

I'm pretty sure part of that isn't the case... The vast majority of restaurant/bar owners don't keep up on what does or doesn't need to be posted... They expect the ABC or local health inspector to tell them... I believe it's still listed as a required item if you ask for the ABC check list (which hasn't yet been updated)...

As the signs get old or get taken down, the inspectors won't say anything and they'll stay down, but that is going to take decades

The vast majority of owners don't even worry about the anti-gun crowd... trust me the pro-hcp crowd is a lot more vocal in my experience.

[Jonnin]

thanks guys, sounds about like I suspected. I prefer no one know, so I do not mention anything gun related around strangers. Tell the manager or owner and now he knows forever that you have a gun, and can even in jest mess you up with a "ya packing today?" or other goofy comment, then the 5 guys near you know too, an pretty soon you may as well open carry... No thanks.