Made my first big time reloading mistake

[analog_kidd]

I bought my wife a new S&W revolver last month. Been reloading for my 9mm almost a year, so figured I needed the supplies to load for her gun too. Bought all the stuff and cranked out a couple of rounds to take to the range to verify I had the right recipe.

When I was loading the powder, it seemed like there just wasn't enough in the case. All the recipes I found show that there is less powder than for my 9mm, even though the .38 spl brass is way bigger. Anyway, I doublechecked my numbers, they looked right, so I made half a dozen or so.

Well, I took them, the gun and my wife to the range. I let her fire off the first few rounds. This was the first time the gun has been fired. Then I loaded up my reloads. When I fired off the first one, it was less recoil than even a .22, and even less of a report than a .22. My wife said she thought she saw the target jump, and I thought maybe there was something wrong with that round, so I fired off another one. Same exact results.

I opened the cylinder, adn to my horror, there was a bullet lodged in the barrel. I tried pushing it out with a pencil, but it wouldn't budge. We were headed to the gun shop after the range, so I brought it in to the Smith adn he pounded on it a while adn said he needed to take it to his workshop. He asked if there was more than one bullet in the chamber, I said I didn't think so. He checked anyway, and turns out there was both bullets lodged in there.

Now I'm really freaked out. Keep thinking about how I could be wishing for a new hand for Christmas. This could have been a really bad day.

Anyway, I'm one to always try and learn from my mistakes. I came home checked my numbers again, and everything looks right. I don't understand it. I was hoping that someone here could school me on what I did wrong.

Here's what I used:

125 gr. Berry's Bullets, copper washed, hollowpoint

Alliant Unique powder, loaded 4.8 gr, using the 0.53 Lee Auto Disk

Still can't believe that .38spl uses less powder than 9mm. And to top it all off, my wife got to shoot the gun once before I broke it, so I feel like a real dope.

[56FordGuy]

Did you weigh the charge to verify the AutoDisk? The chart that came with my Auto Disk was way wrong. It would state a certain powder on a certain size setting would weigh 3.2 (I'm making up numbers to be an example), but when I weighed the charge it could be way different, 2.5 or even 4.2. The Auto Disk can be very consistent, you just have to double check your charges.

4.8 grains is below the minimum in my Hornady book, but not by much. It should've fired. I've loaded them lighter than that in the past and didn't have any squib rounds.

[Raoul]

Did you weigh the charge to verify the AutoDisk? The chart that came with my Auto Disk was way wrong. It would state a certain powder on a certain size setting would weigh 3.2 (I'm making up numbers to be an example), but when I weighed the charge it could be way different, 2.5 or even 4.2. The Auto Disk can be very consistent, you just have to double check your charges.

4.8 grains is below the minimum in my Hornady book, but not by much. It should've fired. I've loaded them lighter than that in the past and didn't have any squib rounds.

+1 on this. Remember to trust but verify.

[bronco302]

The Auto disk and dippers are very conservative. I've read that they are calibrated to Bullseye and throw right on. With other powders you need to find a hole that gets you close to what you want and put that in your notes. I've been setting up my Pro Auto Disk with the adjustable charge bar. It has trouble with small volumes but a modification I found loadmastervideos.com :: View topic - Experience with Lee Adjustable Charge Bar and Lee Micro Disk . I used JOB Weld to move the cavity more centered under the hopper hole. Now it throws 4.1 to 4.4 grains of Tightgroup consistently in .1 increments. The micro meter marks won't be accurate but you just keep good notes and verify when you start. HTH.

Joe W.

Edited December 12, 2010 by bronco302
Spelling and bad proof reading!

[Guest Archminister01]

I had the same issues with the auto disk system. I kept wondering what the heck I was doing wrong. Finally I realized that depending on the powder type, flat, disc, extruded that they all metered differently and this in conjunction with the table for the discs being wrong led to consistent low powder loads. I usually have to go up a disc or two depending on the powder and go with it based on a consistent powder drop. I do two rounds of ten checks before I start loading. I have only had one pip load since I have been reloading..knock on wood. Its all about the system and sticking to it, no distractions. The powders drop consistently but you have to find the disc combinations on your own. I know now that using the auto disc, I have to start larger than what they state. Have not had any issues since. Im glad that everyone si safe and that you had nothing more than a double pip load. The only handguns that I ever knew designed to withstand a pip followed by a live round and have both bullets leave the barrel not explode are Glock and the older Ruger P90.

[analog_kidd]

Still seems like I had the load waaaay under charged. It really didn't feel like the round went off. I would think if it were just one disk off, I'd still get a stronger recoil than I did. Also, I remember there case only being about 1/3 full. Does that seem right to you all?

[I_Like_Pie]

That load you specified should work just fine...Like others I think that the disc is the problem. 1/3 the way full is indicative of a normal .38 load.

.38 is a much lower pressure round than a 9mm. That explains most of the difference with the powder amounts. The reason that .38 is so large compared to the amount of powder is that originally it was a blackpowder round that was co-developed using smokeless around the turn of the century.

Just be glad that you are under charging rather then over charging. Make sure to verify your throw weight before you seal the first on up.

[56FordGuy]

When you have the time, use your auto disk and charge a case. Pour the powder out and weigh it to see what it really weighs. I'd like to know how far off it was. I've loaded .38s down to about 3 grains (I don't recall exact numbers, I'd have to look in my notes) and they fired.

[Trekbike]

It really didn't feel like the round went off. I would think if it were just one disk off, I'd still get a stronger recoil than I did.

Just wondering if the powder ignited at all...any chance the primer was the only thing that discharged?

[Randy L]

When I use auto disk it usually takes some trial and error to find the right hole to throw the charge I want then I will Charge 10 cases and weigh each one to make sure that it is consistent I know that seems excessive but it works well for me then I make notes of which one I used. Glad you or your wife wasn't hurt hope this helps

[kb4ns]

When I use auto disk it usually takes some trial and error to find the right hole to throw the charge I want then I will Charge 10 cases and weigh each one to make sure that it is consistent I know that seems excessive but it works well for me then I make notes of which one I used. Glad you or your wife wasn't hurt hope this helps

Same here. Everytime I get a new brand of powder, I run it through the auto disk and make notes about how much powder comes out of each size hole. It's time-consuming, but when I need to use the auto disk, I know which size to go to on the auto disk. When I'm ready to start loading, I double check the first few throws to make sure they're what they are supposed to be and then randomly check the weight every 10 or so rounds just to make sure everything is going right.

[56FordGuy]

Another thought, what type of .38 were you shooting? Short barreled snubnose or a long barrel?

[analog_kidd]

Just wondering if the powder ignited at all...any chance the primer was the only thing that discharged?

You know the Smith at the gun shop wondered if the primer went off and fired over the powder, igniting it improperly. Your theory actually holds more water, as that is kind of what it felt like.

I had rounds that I had just reloaded for 9mm and .380 from the same powder, and they all fired as I expected.

[analog_kidd]

Another thought, what type of .38 were you shooting? Short barreled snubnose or a long barrel?

It's a snubbie.

[Trekbike]

How far did the first bullet travel down the barrel?

One thing you didn't mention was the OAL. Any chance you didn't seat the bullet deep enough which would lower the pressure?

[analog_kidd]

How far did the first bullet travel down the barrel?

One thing you didn't mention was the OAL. Any chance you didn't seat the bullet deep enough which would lower the pressure?

Well, the two bullets were stacked up together, and the back of the last bullet was just inside the breech of the barrel.

I set my OAL at 1.45".

[Guest Archminister01]

When you have the time, use your auto disk and charge a case. Pour the powder out and weigh it to see what it really weighs. I'd like to know how far off it was. I've loaded .38s down to about 3 grains (I don't recall exact numbers, I'd have to look in my notes) and they fired.

When I use auto disk it usually takes some trial and error to find the right hole to throw the charge I want then I will Charge 10 cases and weigh each one to make sure that it is consistent I know that seems excessive but it works well for me then I make notes of which one I used. Glad you or your wife wasn't hurt hope this helps

Both of these are very valid statements. Before you even start making compete round, you should verify each die station at least ten times consistently to ensure that you are within SAAMI spec. Even when cranking out on my progressive using a powder check die, I still take the time it check every tenth or so round for proper powder drop using a scale. I also try to keep a good visual reference of the casings to see that the same amount of powder ,while eyeballing it, drops. I use calipers to check OAL also on rounds every so often. Tedious but necessary. Again, am very thankful everyone is okie dokie..lol.

One more thing. It isnt a bad idea if your just starting out to use powders that almost fill the cases when loading. Makes it easier to keep track of things until you have developed a good system.

[analog_kidd]

I'm using Alliant Unique, which for 9mm nearly fills the case. What would be a good powder to switch to that would fill the 38spl case?

Also, the Unique seems awfully dirty to me. Is there a different powder I should be using?

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'm using Alliant Unique, which for 9mm nearly fills the case. What would be a good powder to switch to that would fill the 38spl case?

Also, the Unique seems awfully dirty to me. Is there a different powder I should be using?

Trailboss for a good plinking load. It is a very fluffy powder that should nearly fill the case. It is so fluffy that they sell them in the containers that 1 pound normally comes in yet only weighs 9 ounces. I have used it for various projects and it works well when you are wanting to take up case space.

And as far as your previous problem. Always weigh the powder charge. I have never had the Auto Disk chart be right. If you suspect the powder wasn't being ignited you may try a magnum primer or even a small rifle primer if your gun will set it off. I use small rifle primers in all of my 9mm loads. I have never had a problem but a friend who owns a Ruger did. I even use small rifle primers for my 45 ACP loads. I bought 45 ACP brass with small primer pockets just so I could use small rifle primers.

Really dirty powder is an indication that the powder didn't completely burn. If there are large granuals still in the barrel or case then I would suspect the powder didn't ignite properly.

One more thing, what size bullets are you using? I have had issues when I used .355" bullets designed for 9mm in a 38 special. I have had a round get stuck despite the loads being near max.

Dolomite

[Guest Archminister01]

I have almost totally gone over to Titegroup for my handgun loads these days after trying a few different types and brands of powder. I use it for .38spl, .357mag, .40s&w and .45acp cailbers. It isnt one of those powders that fills the case but its clean and fairly fast. It has ignited everytime with every primer, powder combination that I have tried. It seems to go a little farther per pound than the others regarding number of loads per pound. Keep plugging, there is a lot of good components out there to use and eventually you will find what suits you best. One powder isnt any better than another as they all make bullets go downrange.

Dolomite is spot on about the Auto Disk chart. The system works, but the data is crap. Find your proper disk combination that drops your gram requirements and use it. I have the disk combinations written down on all of my load data cards per individual powder. I almost never use that chart unless anymore. If i am using a new powder, I start using the disk combination of the powder that is the closest type and go from there. Then i test weigh the crap out of it for consistent drops. Once I am confident that its good, I load some...and weigh some more. Check, double check and recheck..then check again. )

Edited December 14, 2010 by Archminister01

[Guest 70below]

+1 on most everyones recommendations. How is your powder storage? Any chance the container got left open or was stored somewhere with too much humidity or had a risk of contamination? Or perhaps even improper storage of the primers? Old primers? Its possible that the primers fired but weren't as hot. Remember if anything is in the least bit peculiar when firing reloads, always stop and check the barrel. A squib stuck in the barrel is what killed Bruce Lee's son Brandon.

[guyandarifle]

Maybe I'm just paranoid and I know thousands of people crank out zillions of round of ammo (especially handgun) on their progressive presses...but not me. I use a single stage press and weigh EVERY powder charge. I've got one of the dipper sets and choose one that puts me right at the desired charge and trickle the rest. It's more time consuming but I like the peace of mind. *

*I don't know how I'd manage this if I was a genuine high-volume shooter but since I'm not it's no big deal.

[ftncityfatboy]

FWIW: my 9mm load target loads, accurate #2/4.1 grain. my .38 special target load, accurate #2/4.0 grain. My 9mm self defense loads, accurate #5/6.2 grains. my .38 special sd loads, accurate #5/5.8 grains.

Your powder loads will not be that far off from 9mm & .38 special. As everyone has stated, check the loader, weigh different loads at different times during the reloading process just to make sure the powder loader is not drifting.

[analog_kidd]

Well, I got curious and pulled the bullet out of one of the rounds I made so I could measure the powder. I found that it had 4.2gr inside the shell, and I was aiming for 4.8gr. I see that the Lee Auto Disk wasn't spot-on perfect, but I can't imagine that half a grain difference would have caused such a squib.

I'm convinced that what happened is the powder is not filling the brass enough, and since the shell is less than half full, when the bullet is horizontal the powder does not come up to the primer. I think what is happening is the primer is flashing right over the powder and not igniting it. What pushed my bullet out of the round and into the chamber was just the explosion of the primer. The lack of just about any recoil at all and the very low report also makes me think this is true.

I'm thinking Unique is not going to be the right powder for this round. Does anyone else here reload .38spl? If so, what powder do you use and how much?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'm thinking Unique is not going to be the right powder for this round. Does anyone else here reload .38spl? If so, what powder do you use and how much?

As Dolomite earlier mentioned, Trail Boss might be good because it is very low-density and fluffy. Supposedly you can't get in too much trouble with most pistol loads even if you fill the case with Trail Boss.

Possibly a little more expensive (because you would use more powder per load), but perhaps nearly fool proof. I think it was originally designed for cowboy shooters as much as anything else.

I've never used it but some acquaintances really like Trail Boss especially reloading lead bullets. One guy said that with efficient powder and "less than half empty" cases, he had compared his .38 loads shooting uphill versus downhill, and the location of the powder in the case made a big enough difference to drastically affect the velocity. Shooting uphill with most of the powder back against the primer, had higher velocity than shooting downhill with most of the powder sitting on the bullet.

He said that a full case of Trail Boss was much more consistent. Not as sensitive to the pistol's horizontal orientation.

Folks usually shoot level at a range, but if you were out hunting or plinking, there wouldn't be much guarantee that you would always be shooting level.

EDIT: I've mostly been using Blue Dot in the past for .357, and maybe am remembering wrong, but if I recall, a near-max load of Blue Dot doesn't even hit the half-way mark in a .357 case, and it always seemed to light off reliably. But that is with magnum primers, which may make a difference.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Lester Weevils