Theif Steals Your Car and Causes Harm - Now You Can Be Held Responsible

[waynesan]

I don't know how other states handle this but I think its a crock:screwy:

Tennessee appeals court rules a person leaving keys in vehicle can be held responsible for a car thief's crash - Kingsport Times-News Online

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.

[Bubbatn]

Wow...That's a bunch of BS!

[E4 No More]

So if you enable someone stealing your car ya'll think you shouldn't be liable for their actions? So if you leave a gun unlocked you shouldn't be liable for the child killing someone too?

Edited December 10, 2010 by SWJewellTN
Spelling

[Guest clownsdd]

Should read

You leave your keys in the car and a Theif Steals Your Car and Causes Harm - Now You Can Be Held Responsible

Absurd, yes, but the operator of the car was negligent. By leaving the keys in the car helped contribute to the crash. If the thief had broken in, it's a whole new ballgame.

[Bubbatn]

So if you enable someone stealing your car ya'll think you shouldn't be liable for their actions? So if you leave a gun unlocked you shouldn't be laible for the child killing someone too?

According to that article, her grandson left the keys in the car...."her grandson Joseph D. Ash Jr., who had left keys in the car". Also, leaving a gun unlocked where a child had access to it is abit different than accidentally leaving your keys in your car and an adult to come along and steal it. That's just me though

[E4 No More]

Sorry, but I think negligence is negligence.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

And to think that there was a day (although a long time ago) that I was in the habit of leaving car keys in the cars. They had no use inside the house and taking them inside was just a chance to lose them. At the time I worked on and sold cars from my yard for a part time income, so there were many sets of keys.

The keys stayed IN the cars where they were the safest and nothing horrible ever happened, of course those were the days that there was also no real need to lock ones doors either.

I also agree with Bubbatn as far as the comparison to leaving a firearm unattended. I am sorry that people got hurt but it is only the fault of the buttwipe that stole the car, it was HIS actions that caused the situation.

[Chucktshoes]

Sorry, but I think negligence is negligence.

On the surface I would agree with you, but I think negligence is negated by the intentional illegal acts of another. Try this analogy, if say, someone doesn't lock their front door, is in the back yard and someone breaks in and steals a gun. They then shoot someone else with that gun, is the homeowner liable? The were negligent in not locking their door.

[Fallguy]

Overall I think it's usually pretty stupid to leave your keys in your car. However I really don't think your liable if someone steals you car.

Just to be clear, this ruling is not saying you are responsible, it is simply allowing to case to go forward against the car owner. It is possible that no fault will be imposed in the final disposition.

[walton6467]

Tenn. appeals court rules against person who left keys in car | theleafchronicle.com | The Leaf Chronicle+

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — A Tennessee appeals court has ruled that a person can be held responsible for a car thief's crash if the keys were left in the vehicle.

The Tennessee Court of Appeals ruled this week in a case involving a stolen car, a police chase and a wreck in Murfreesboro in May 2007.

The Court of Appeals upheld a lower court's decision to dismiss a lawsuit against the city of Murfreesboro and its police department over a wreck that involved a fleeing stolen vehicle that crashed with a car carrying three people.

But the higher court reversed a decision by the circuit court of Rutherford County and said the suit against a man who left the keys in the car before it was stolen should continue.

The amount of damages sought by those hurt in the crash was not listed. The extent of their injuries also was not included in the appeals court ruling.

Plaintiffs were Sandra Newman and her family, who were in the car hit by an unknown motorist who had stolen the vehicle. They claimed negligence against Rubye Jarrell, who had the car registered; her grandson Joseph D. Ash Jr., who had left keys in the car, and the unknown driver of the other car, listed as John Doe in the suit.

The suit alleged negligence on the part of the Murfreesboro Police Department for pursuing the stolen car prior to the accident May 18, 2007.

The appeals court said it did not matter whether the keys were left in the ignition or the front seat or on the dash board in plain view.

Further, the judges said the car was stolen in what appeared to be a high crime area.

[Bubbatn]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/50119-theif-steals-your-car-causes-harm-now-you-can-held-responsible.html

[Guest clownsdd]

It's called personal responsibility. While I agree on the absurd end of it. If the scum did not have access to the keys it probably would not have happened. It sure is not the Police fault for doing their job.

[safeandsecure]

Leaving keys in a car should NOT be criminal. Stealing a car ... and whatever happens thereafter, IS (or blamed-well ought to be) criminal.

I've forgotten mine a few times. Heck, once I looked high and low for my "lost" keys, just to find them still hanging in the house door lock.

When forgetfulness is deemed criminal, I'm probably going to the pokey. And if this is deemed "negligence," when the property owner isn't even the one who left the keys there in the first place ... ... well, it's just one more case of the innocent being blamed for someone else's wrongdoing. Just my opinion, and I'm well aware that my opinion don't count for much.

Edited December 10, 2010 by safeandsecure
Typo

[JAB]

This is NOT like leaving a gun where a child can have access to it. Instead, this is like leaving your tool shed unlocked then being held liable when someone illegally enters your tool shed, steals an axe and uses that axe to murder someone else. Leaving your keys in your car is no more 'giving permission' for someone to steal it than leaving your suitcase unlocked gives permission for someone else to wear your underwear. The whole idea that one person is responsible when another party steals their property and uses it to commit a crime is a symptom of what is wrong with this country - nothing can ever be solely the fault of a criminal who is engaged in a criminal act. Someone else - society, the victim, someone, must always share the blame. I say put the blame where it lies, solely on the car thief, and quit trying to blame the victim - the person whose car was stolen.

[safeandsecure]

It's called personal responsibility.

Understand what you're saying, but we all forget things sometimes. I seem to forget more than most.

That's why I'd prefer to see the "responsibility" begin and end with the thief who stole the car ... "criminal" responsibility.

[Guest drv2fst]

I guess I am from a different planet. Sometimes there are good reasons to leave keys in a car.

1) it's cold and the car needs to be warmed up before driving

2) it's parked where someone (family or friend) may need to move it

3) it's a free country and you just feel like it

What ever happened to a person being responsible for their own actions? A thief should be responsible for any results from commission of the crime. The victim should not be victimized by the courts as well as the thief.

[Guest drv2fst]

It's called personal responsibility. While I agree on the absurd end of it. If the scum did not have access to the keys it probably would not have happened. It sure is not the Police fault for doing their job.

I disagree. If it was MY CAR and it was not hurting anyone where I parked it, then if you steal it, whatever happens is YOUR problem. My responsibility ends when your crime begins.

[Guest clownsdd]

Ever forget you handgun? Common sense tells you not to leave the keys in the car. I'm lets say 60ish and have never left my keys in the car. Kinda like you went to the mall and forgetting you took your wife with you. One of those things you just don't do. I'm by no means condoning what they did, but realistically the owner does bear some responsibility for being irresponsible.

[Guest drv2fst]

Ever forget you handgun? Common sense tells you not to leave the keys in the car. I'm lets say 60ish and have never left my keys in the car. Kinda like you went to the mall and forgetting you took your wife with you. One of those things you just don't do. I'm by no means condoning what they did, but realistically the owner does bear some responsibility for being irresponsible.

Sorry, but wrong again IMHO. The owner should not bear ANY responsibility to what happened to their property AFTER it was STOLEN. A car is not a gun. Both can be fun. Both can be expensive. Both can be dangerous. But they are not the same.

How about a glass bottle? If I leave my glass coke bottle on the ground, and you decide to steal it and hit your friend on the head with it. Am I responsible? For littering, yes. But for your crime? NO.

[DavidD]

We can argue personal responsibility all day long but here is a different take for you. Why are the people suing? Weren't they personally responsible enough to have insurance to cover their car, passengers and themselves? Kind seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me. "It is Joe Shmoe's fault for making a mistake and leaving his keys in his car and he should pay!"

Doesn't seem right to me but as a lawyer friend often reminds me, "Anyone can be sued for anything anytime, doesn't mean they'll win."

Edited December 10, 2010 by DavidD

[MikePapa1]

Hmmmm. I actually read the case, it's here: http://www.tba2.org/tba_files/TCA/2010/newmans_120810.pdf

The defendant argued that the criminal's intentional acts were unforeseeable and the COA disagreed. In this case I happen to agree with the COA. It is perfectly foreseeable that if you leave the keys not only in your car but in the ignition that it might be stolen and operated in a negligent manner causing injury to innocent third parties. Tennessee apportions fault between negligent parties and it's perfectly appropriate to allow a jury to apportion fault to a negligent driver who enables his vehicle to be stolen. As with most cases this is extremely fact sensitive. Had the keys not been in the ignition but under the floor mat, it might well have changed the outcome as each act would make the theft less and less foreseeable for a reasonable person.

By the way, the COA, simply reversed the summary judgment, not ruled that the defendant was, in fact, negligent. A summary judgment say that under no set of facts could the defendant have been negligent, they are disfavored in law as in our system questions such as this ought to be decided not by a judge but rather by a jury of citizens from the community.

Edited December 10, 2010 by MikePapa1
Added thought

[vontar]

1. Don't leave keys in the car and lock the doors.

2. Put the blame where it belongs, on the person that stole the dam car and drove it.

The expression is locks keep the honest honest, this person was up to no good one way or another and the keys just made it easier.

[Guest Jamie]

And to think that there was a day (although a long time ago) that I was in the habit of leaving car keys in the cars. They had no use inside the house and taking them inside was just a chance to lose them. At the time I worked on and sold cars from my yard for a part time income, so there were many sets of keys.

The keys stayed IN the cars where they were the safest and nothing horrible ever happened, of course those were the days that there was also no real need to lock ones doors either.

I also agree with Bubbatn as far as the comparison to leaving a firearm unattended. I am sorry that people got hurt but it is only the fault of the buttwipe that stole the car, it was HIS actions that caused the situation.

If you owned an early '60s Chevy, the keys didn't even have to be left in it. Half the time my mom drove her old '61 Biscayne without any keys at all. Given the way the ignition switch was made, it'd start just fine by grabbing the "ears" on the switch, provided the switch hadn't been intentionally locked with the key.

Anyway, no, I don't agree with that court/judge. It IS the criminal's actions - the thief - that needs to be punished, not the rightful owner.

I guess the next thing is to start punishing banks for having a lot of money, and tempting people to break the law by stealing it...

[vontar]

I guess the next thing is to start punishing banks for having a lot of money, and tempting people to break the law by stealing it...

^^^^^^^^^^^

and Macdonald's and other fast food made me fat too.

[LagerHead]

So if you enable someone stealing your car ya'll think you shouldn't be liable for their actions? So if you leave a gun unlocked you shouldn't be liable for the child killing someone too?

Should read

You leave your keys in the car and a Theif Steals Your Car and Causes Harm - Now You Can Be Held Responsible

Absurd, yes, but the operator of the car was negligent. By leaving the keys in the car helped contribute to the crash. If the thief had broken in, it's a whole new ballgame.

I am speechless at how insane those statements are. Nobody but the grade A Dbag that stole the care is responsible. Let me give you another hypothetical.

If you leave your front door unlocked and someone walks in and shoots your wife, should you be charged with murder? Using the same logic you are defending how can you possibly say no?

Give me a break. That's the dumbest crap I have ever heard.