Has anyone actually been caught in a "DMZ"?

[Guest Jamie]

Kicked out

For being too confrontational, you think?

( Not a good trait in a gun toter, btw... It usually leads to a lot of trouble, sooner or later. )

[Guest m&pc9]

Thanks for reminding me that Tennessee's gun owners are for the most part cowardly. Maybe its time you learned a thing or two from Virginia's, Pennsylvania's, or even California's gun owners.

[mikegideon]

For being too confrontational, you think?

( Not a good trait in a gun toter, btw... It usually leads to a lot of trouble, sooner or later. )

Yep. They might confiscate your Glock, just to piss you off

[Guest Jamie]

Yep. They might confiscate your Glock, just to piss you off

Actually, I'm seeing some pepper spray and a taser in his future... followed by a quick lesson in dry-land body-surfing...

But what do I know?

[mikegideon]

Actually, I'm seeing some pepper spray and a taser in his future... followed by a quick lesson in dry-land body-surfing...

But what do I know?

There you go again with that taser .

[Guest Jamie]

There you go again with that taser .

Well dammit, I got to play with the pepper spray and give a few D.L. body-surfing lessons, but the department I was with didn't get Tasers until I had left. So I feel... deprived.

[7dogguy]

Hmm... If those places are so great, how come you ain't there instead of here?

+1

[Glock30Owner]

Talk about lack of reading comprehension.

I never stated that things were better anywhere. I just stated that TN's gun owners should get a bit of a backbone and stop cowering when some police-impersonator demands their papers.

Then imagine my dismay when an apparent former police officer advocates aggravated assault on a law abiding citizen for nothing more than defending their rights (with others supporting this position).

Is it the position of the majority of members of this board that rights are not to be defended? Or are they only to be defended when one recieves the approval from members of this board beforehand?

[mikegideon]

Talk about lack of reading comprehension.

I never stated that things were better anywhere. I just stated that TN's gun owners should get a bit of a backbone and stop cowering when some police-impersonator demands their papers.

Then imagine my dismay when an apparent former police officer advocates aggravated assault on a law abiding citizen for nothing more than defending their rights (with others supporting this position).

Is it the position of the majority of members of this board that rights are not to be defended? Or are they only to be defended when one recieves the approval from members of this board beforehand?

You're quick to insult everybody. I wasn't trying to stir you up to begin with. Did you not take note of the results of your little demonstration? You find a place that obviously didn't want any guns, so you strap one on just to start something. All I stated was that the outcome was predictable.

Now, you say your rights were voilated, and that you have supporters. Please let us whimpy gun owners know when it gets resolved in your favor. I will be the FIRST one to admit that I was wrong. Better yet, do it again somewhere.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hmm. I generally prefer to avoid trouble. That attitude is why I have a permit and carry, to avoid trouble. There is sufficient unavoidable trouble out there that it seems folly to go looking for more than my share.

In your situation I would have seen the sign and left the gun in the truck.

If I had decided to look for extra trouble and open-carry, and the security man asked about a carry permit, I would have shown it. If the open-carry ain't a big secret, then I don't see how showing a carry permit would be revealing any highly classified secrets.

Because the security man asked about the permit, it sounds like he may have been inclined to leave you alone if you had shown it.

If the guy didn't want you carrying at all, then he could have asked you to leave right away, rather than ask about a permit. Why would he even ask about the permit if he wasn't at least considering the possibility of leaving you alone?

But after you show up open-carrying, and then you refuse to show a permit, then I think a "reasonable person" may have strong suspicion that you are carrying illegally. Regardless whether you respect the security guard, it is the fellow's job to try to prevent some nut-case coming in and shooting up the joint. So if he hadn't called the police he probably wouldn't have been doing his job very well.

He probably said you could stay because he didn't know if you are a nut case and didn't want to escalate into a possible shootout with a possible nut case. So he left you alone and called the cops. Sounds pretty reasonable.

So there were at least two easy feasible ways to avoid hassle--

1. Don't carry past the sign.

2. Show a permit when asked.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Lester Weevils

[Glock30Owner]

You're quick to insult everybody. I wasn't trying to stir you up to begin with. Did you not take note of the results of your little demonstration? You find a place that obviously didn't want any guns, so you strap one on just to start something. All I stated was that the outcome was predictable.

Now, you say your rights were voilated, and that you have supporters. Please let us whimpy gun owners know when it gets resolved in your favor. I will be the FIRST one to admit that I was wrong. Better yet, do it again somewhere.

Yes, I did take note. I was illegally detaine by a police officer. I had my property stolen by this same corrupt police officer. The police officer left stolen property in a waiting room full of people when he left the building to talk to other corrupt police officers.

When a complaint about corrupt police officers was filed, a corrupt depatment exonerates them.

All this for following the explicit instructions of a security guard who was impersonating a police officer when entering a building carrying a firearm as they expressly stated it should be carried.

I'll be sure to let you know when a corrupt TN court throws out my lawsuit.

[mikegideon]

Yes, I did take note. I was illegally detaine by a police officer. I had my property stolen by this same corrupt police officer. The police officer left stolen property in a waiting room full of people when he left the building to talk to other corrupt police officers.

When a complaint about corrupt police officers was filed, a corrupt depatment exonerates them.

All this for following the explicit instructions of a security guard who was impersonating a police officer when entering a building carrying a firearm as they expressly stated it should be carried.

I'll be sure to let you know when a corrupt TN court throws out my lawsuit.

I think you and Leonard should go class action on their asses

[Glock30Owner]

1. Don't carry past the sign.

2. Show a permit when asked.

1. Even when the sign clearly states don't conceal? I open carry as a normal mode of carry. I have nothing to hide. If you prefer to conceal, that is your choice. For this place the only options were to OC or disarm, I won't do the latter.

2. No. I only show my HCP to law enforcement as the law demands. Anyone else can pound sand. If I'm asked to leave, I do. If you wish to show your permit to everyone who asks, that is your choice.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

1. Even when the sign clearly states don't conceal? I open carry as a normal mode of carry. I have nothing to hide. If you prefer to conceal, that is your choice. For this place the only options were to OC or disarm, I won't do the latter.

2. No. I only show my HCP to law enforcement as the law demands. Anyone else can pound sand. If I'm asked to leave, I do. If you wish to show your permit to everyone who asks, that is your choice.

With all due respect, it seems like you knew exactly what you were doing and you got the exact results your actions demanded. When you go looking for confrontation, expect to find it.

[ftncityfatboy]

I know what's being said here, when we wimpy TN gun owners/HCP owners carry and see a "concealed carry firearms prohibited" sign, we simply convert to "open carry" thus not violating the "concealed carry" ban. In my most humble opinion, to open carry is simply asking for trouble and its scares the sheeple. Not everyone has the same love for their 2A rights as most of us here. So remember that while being out in the world tending to your day to day matters, guns SCARE people, because for all their lives they have been told that guns are bad and only bad people and LEO have them (hum, that statement just doesn't sound right). I guess if I were to be disarmed by the local poe poe in any given situation, after it was over I would just be glad I didn't end up like the drunk guy with the garden hose nozzle (another thread topic).

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Is it the position of the majority of members of this board that rights are not to be defended? Or are they only to be defended when one recieves the approval from members of this board beforehand?

How about the rights of a property owner to forbid HCP on their site?

[Glock30Owner]

With all due respect, it seems like you knew exactly what you were doing and you got the exact results your actions demanded. When you go looking for confrontation, expect to find it.

Why would I expect your statement to be disrespectful? Yes, I knew exactly what I was doing. I do my absolute best to know exactly what I'm doing everytime I carry a firearm, don't you?

My actions demanded nothing more than either the guard to ask me to leave (I would have immediately complied) or leave me in peace. Why would you think they demanded more?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Glock30Owner. You can do as you please of course. And take any unfortunate results of misunderstandings which may occur.

Ain't telling you what to do, but I don't understand. If you are open-carrying, then you are not making any secret about the gun. It is anyone's knowledge who cares to look. So what is so super-double-naught-spy secret about showing the permit? Is that being free and open about one personal detail, but paranoid secret about another personal detail of about equal importance?

If you buy a private-sale gun and the seller wants to see your carry permit, do you tell him to pound sand? The seller ain't a cop!

If you write a check and the merchant wants to see your drivers license, do you tell him to pound sand? The merchant is not police, so you have no obligation to show the license, right?

[strickj]

2. No. I only show my HCP to law enforcement as the law demands.

Where does the law demand that? Please show the TCA.

Thanks

[Garufa]

Who let Lenny back in here?

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Why would I expect your statement to be disrespectful? Yes, I knew exactly what I was doing. I do my absolute best to know exactly what I'm doing everytime I carry a firearm, don't you?

My actions demanded nothing more than either the guard to ask me to leave (I would have immediately complied) or leave me in peace. Why would you think they demanded more?

I should have been clearer. It seems obvious that you knew the property owner did not want hcp on site, exploited some poor wording on their sign and then (I'm guessing, based on your discourse here) copped quite and attitude when confronted by security. You got the confrontation you clearly wanted; you just didn't like the results.

I have a hard time believing that any rational, logical person would see the sign you saw, think (oh, they WANT me to open carry), dump his concealment garment and enter the business.

[mikegideon]

1. Even when the sign clearly states don't conceal? I open carry as a normal mode of carry. I have nothing to hide. If you prefer to conceal, that is your choice. For this place the only options were to OC or disarm, I won't do the latter.

2. No. I only show my HCP to law enforcement as the law demands. Anyone else can pound sand. If I'm asked to leave, I do. If you wish to show your permit to everyone who asks, that is your choice.

Did you really believe that open carry was an option? There are tons of examples out there of badly written signs that really just meant "No Guns". Didn't you at least try think, "Why would they just ban concealed guns? What were they thinking?". When it came down to it, the badly written sign didn't make any difference.

[mikegideon]

Who let Lenny back in here?

Glad I'm not the only one.

[Glock30Owner]

Where does the law demand that? Please show the TCA.

Thanks

TCA 39-17-1531(n)(1) Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer.

[Glock30Owner]

I should have been clearer. It seems obvious that you knew the property owner did not want hcp on site, exploited some poor wording on their sign and then (I'm guessing, based on your discourse here) copped quite and attitude when confronted by security. You got the confrontation you clearly wanted; you just didn't like the results.

I have a hard time believing that any rational, logical person would see the sign you saw, think (oh, they WANT me to open carry), dump his concealment garment and enter the business.

I'm sorry that you think that reading a sign that could have the weight of law behind it in a literal manner is wrong.