Kel-Tec SU-16?

[Steelharp]

Any experience with these? Reviews seem to be very favorable; thinking about a .223 that uses AR mags, but not an AR. Can't see anything else except the Benelli MR1... and that's out of the question... seems to be different types, too. Alpha, B, C... any knowledge of them out there?

[mousegunner]

I want one. I've handled a few, and have read lots of good reviews. It's like getting an AR, only much less expensive, and lighter and even more compact.

[seez52]

I want one too, a Charlie model. There are some naysayers, but those who own them seem well satisfied. Ktog.org has a lot of discussion on them. I've been an overall fan of Kel-tec and own several of their other items.

[Jonnin]

I have their PLR-16, which is really the pistol version of the same gun if I am not mistaken. The one that I have will not eat steel ammo (can break it), and I think the same is true for the SU. So you must avoid the surplus ammo with these guns. Also, the pistol can get hot enough to melt part of the gun if you try to machine-gun thru a stack of 30 round mags. If you just fire it normally (a few seconds per shot) it gets warm but is fine. I do not know if the SU has this same issue, and I did not do this to mine just read that it can happen. If you want to treat it this way, search the web before you buy to find out if the SU is also prone to over heating. I think the rule of thumb was about 50 rounds before putting it down to cool off.

Kel tech has outstanding service, so even if something goes wrong, they will fix it. These bigger guns are much better made than their line of cheap self defense pistols and do not have to be poked and prodded before shooting. They work out of the box, and if treated well, should last for many years of good service.

Edit:

I checked it out on the kel tec web site. If you took a picture of the PLR and the SU, cropped it to just show the trigger and ejection port and top of the gun (removed the stocks and barrel from the image), you could not tell the pistol and rifle apart, so I am going to say they are the same .223 gun in the middle with a different barrel and stocks and frame, but internally most likely the same. Take that as an educated guess though.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Jonnin

[Steelharp]

I want one too, a Charlie model.

What's the difference in the models?

[Jonnin]

What's the difference in the models?

Stocks and barrels and such. Go to keltec website and look at each one, it explains it there. All are very similar guns, the same 223 platform with a variety of configurations for your personal tastes.

[Steelharp]

Jonnin, thank you! We have our winner in the "Charlie" model. Now, just need to find one... and the money to buy it...

[Jonnin]

Heh, understood. Kel techs are fairly cheap, so I would say try to find a new one or like-new used (hard to find, most people keep theirs). Be warned, once you get something like this you will want to put some stuff on it most likely, so double your budget before you get it. Try to have a good $1000 to spend, because you will want a scope (a decent scope is about $300), a clip (a 30 round clip is $20-30), some ammo (.223 is not exactly cheap, and since you are banned from using the surplus military stuff, expect to buy a good $100 or more in ammo as you sight it in and try it out).

My pistol is already at a good $750 spent and thats with just a scope, ammo, forend, clip, and gun --- and the rifle versions have more goodies to consider such as a bipod, etc.

[Oh Shoot]

The "All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more" has always put me off....

- OS

[Steelharp]

Jonnin, already have all that because of the PLR-16 I sold. Just need the rifle to put it on...

[JReedEsq]

If you plan to shoot often the "no surplus" and "no steel" ammo retrictions will quickly eat into your savings over an entry level AR. Personally, If I wanted a .223 but not an AR, I'd just get a Police trade-in Mini 14 from Buds.

[Steelharp]

If you plan to shoot often the "no surplus" and "no steel" ammo retrictions will quickly eat into your savings over an entry level AR. Personally, If I wanted a .223 but not an AR, I'd just get a Police trade-in Mini 14 from Buds.

Problem is, I have these AR mags, see...

[Jonnin]

its just "no steel cases". Brass surplus is ok, maybe I didnt say that clearly. It has nothing to do with who made it and for what purpose, its just that hard steel cases break things in these guns, while brass is soft enough to not break things. Thats the whole story. Not having tried it, I am not sure what parts break, or how much steel it takes to break them.

[dralarms]

I have 2, both were A models, which means they break down and are unfireable when closed.

I bought the C conversion for one, it's so much better I want the C conversion for the other

C is fire as a rifle and with the stock folded you can still fire.

I haven't "counted" the rounds through mine but they seem to hold up and long as you stay away from the steel cased stuff.

[morrisster]

I have the C (charlie) model. I love it. I live in the chattanooga area if anyone wants to try it out sometime. shoot me a PM or something. its a great little gun. It does need a flash suppressor though, as it doesn't come with one (threaded barrel though). the darn thing blows flame out the end... I replaced the proprietary keltec pin with a 1/4" hitch pin with snapring for easy breakdown. Its my bug out gun/backpacking gun.

[dralarms]

I have the C (charlie) model. I love it. I live in the chattanooga area if anyone wants to try it out sometime. shoot me a PM or something. its a great little gun. It does need a flash suppressor though, as it doesn't come with one (threaded barrel though). the darn thing blows flame out the end... I replaced the proprietary keltec pin with a 1/4" hitch pin with snapring for easy breakdown. Its my bug out gun/backpacking gun.

That's a great idea.

[Steelharp]

Ok, so looking deeper here... are these like an AR, gas operated? The gas goes back into the chamber?

[Oh Shoot]

Ok, so looking deeper here... are these like an AR, gas operated? The gas goes back into the chamber?

"The SU-16 has a conventional, long-stroke gas-piston operation and utilizes the proven Johnson/Stoner breech locking system. "

Kel Tec CNC

- OS

[Steelharp]

OS, thank you... how come I can't just find things sometimes...?

[Oh Shoot]

OS, thank you... how come I can't just find things sometimes...?

Probably too impatient, happens with folks who have lives and everything.

- OS

[Steelharp]

Probably too impatient, happens with folks who have lives and everything.

- OS

... well, thank you for kindness, finding that info. Guess this isn't what I'm looking for, either...

Hmm... maybe your Garufa quote might be what I'm looking for...

[Oh Shoot]

... well, thank you for kindness, finding that info. Guess this isn't what I'm looking for, either...

Hmm... maybe your Garufa quote might be what I'm looking for...

CDNN has the Mini14 tactical for under $600.

- OS

[mikegideon]

... well, thank you for kindness, finding that info. Guess this isn't what I'm looking for, either...

Hmm... maybe your Garufa quote might be what I'm looking for...

I'll vouch for the Mini too, but you won't be using AR mags. Mags for the mini are pricey if you stick with the Rugers.

[dralarms]

Gun shop in town will build you a AR for 599.00 (or something close to that) you can get it any way you want it, but anything over basic will cost you.

[RoDan]

I love my SU-16C. I put a Primary Arms aimpoint clone on it and it is a great shooter. You can shoot steel cased ammo in it if you want, the steel cases are softer than the brass cases are. The problem is not the steel cases breaking things, it is the build up of the lacquer finish on the steel to keep it from rusting that flakes off and melts when the guns get hot and gums everything up. If you shoot a moderate amount, and clean afterward you will be fine. Keep in mind, the steel cases are not heat treated or anything, it is soft metal.