Future gun owner in Murfreesboro

[Guest CruiserZ31]

Hey my name is Stephen. I currently live in Murfreesboro and attend MTSU full time. I'll be turning 21 in Feb. and plan on owning a pistol eventually. I've been doing to lurking and reading trying to figure out exactly what I want out of a handgun. Looking for something primarily for home defense and possible concealed carry. I would love to take it to the range every so often as well.

I loved the look and reputation of the 1911's but it seems too large for a comfortable concealed carry.

I am very interested in Glock's. I shoot pistols left handed, is the Glock trigger configuration an issue for southpaw's?

As far as affordable, comfortable and reliable concealed carry weapon's go I've read a lot of good things about the keltec pistols. The only con to them is how harsh they are on the hand when firing which would discount from it's availability as a range weapon.

I like the look and feel of revolvers, especially the airweights for a ccw.

Would a revolver or semi auto make a better ccw/home defense weapon? I'll probably come up with some more questions as time goes on but I think that's it for now. I'm looking forward to learning a lot while I'm here.

[TGO David]

Welcome to TGO. As there are so many members close to where you live, I would recommend attending one of the organized shoots sometime soon and getting your hands on as many different makes and models as you can. Gun shops are full of slightly used firearms that people bought based off of looks or preconceived ideas, only to find out that they didn't work well for them. You can avoid being that guy by trying as many beforehand as possible.

[DWARREN123]

Howdy and Welcome to TGO

The answer to many of your questions is that you will have to decide. Myself I would look at a Glock, S&W or similar semi auto in 9mm.

Good luck in you search.

[Bubba0031]

Welcome. I concur with David's recommendation to try as many handguns as possible whether at a shoot or by renting at a firing range/gun store. I also am left handed and have a Glock. The only consideration, IMO, is that the mag release on the Glock (as is with almost all handguns) is on the left side of the handgrip so it can be operated with the thumb on the right hand. The only time this is a hinderance is if your trying to shoot IDPA.

[Westwindmike]

Welcome from the 'Boro, Stephen.

[kb4ns]

Welcome!

[Jonnin]

Welcome!

I am going to do a long, post that could be a little overwhelming for someone new to guns. Like all such things, its mostly my opinions, but I tried to keep it generic and to open up some possible things for you, not to steer you in any direction. Try to not be overwhelmed though, its just some things to think about as you shop for your gun, so you do not buy the wrong thing and end up buying another gun a few months from now. If you consider this stuff up front, your purchase will likely be exactly what you need ---- its an attempt to show you how I wasted some money over the years learning what I liked and did not like by trial, error, and expense so you do not have to repeat the process =)

Before you buy a gun for carry, there is a lot to know, at least a at a generic level of detail.

First thing to know is what is called terminal ballistics. This is a complicated subject, but here is the quick overview:

1) bigger holes kill faster because they have a bigger chance to hit something important like the spine, heart, or major blood vessles. The size of the hole is governed by caliber, which is either in caliber(this is inches, 1 caliber = 1 inch diameter, and a .45 is about 1/2 an inch) or metric (9mm, etc: a 10 mm is roughly the same as a .40 caliber in diameter, for example). Bigger holes help someone bleed to death faster, if nothing else.

2) Longer barrels produce more force from the same bullet. See the excellent website "ballistics by the inch".

3) The goal is to fire a round that expends most of its energy in the enemy, and exits their body with minimal force so as not to hit somone behind them. This is usually done by using hollow point ammo which expands, and more surface area makes a larger hole AND drops its energy into the body faster for a lower exit velocity.

There is a lot more to it, but thats enough to understand the basic physics.

Then comes the gun stuff:

There are a lot of different guns, revolvers are still great for defense, and various automatics. Some automatics are what is called double action only, so you have a long, heavy trigger pull every shot which is hard to aim and control and fire rapidly. Others are double action, and have a short, easy trigger pull if the hammer (internal or external) is cocked, and a long heavy pull for the first shot only if it is not cocked. Others are single action, and are actually stored with the hammer cocked and the safety engaged, so you pop the safety off as you draw and a light tap of the trigger is all you need ever. Most modern revolvers are double action, you can thumb back the hammer for a light trigger pull or just pull a long heavy trigger to do it all from the trigger. Revolvers to not recock after a shot, you have to thumb the hammer each time if you want the light trigger pull.

So, you need to consider which stlye is right for you. A lot of this is just safety preferences and personal preferences. A double action only gun has no safety, and no need for it, as you cannot pull a trigger an inch against a 6 pound spring by accident unless extremely careless. Same is true for a double action gun, but if your hammer can snag as you draw (external, revolver or revolver style hammer on an auto) you need a safety. Single action only (cocked with safety on) scare some folks, but those can be carried uncocked if you practice pulling the hammer back as you draw, to eliminate the risk.

So, given all that, you now have to decide how you will carry the gun. If you poke it in your pocket, well most guns that are right at a 6 inch square or smaller frame will fit into a mans jeans or dress pants pocket. Much over that gets tight and sights can snag, or it can be difficult to draw, may be hard to conceal (many guns you can poke a thin wallet in front and its totaly hidden, others are too fat for this trick), etc. If you carry it under arm, in your waist band, or the like, you can hide a monster 1911 style that way but the weight can get old and the size can be annoying. Its whatever you think you can stand to have for weight and size for these types of carry -- the bigger the gun, the more likely it will perform well but the more annoying it is to carry (bigger guns have longer barrels and are usually, but not always, shoot a more powerful ammo.)

Another issue is the cost. You may like the sig p238, but at $500, maybe its a bit much for a pocket 380. Decide what you can spend, then seek out either a quality new gun or an even better quality used one. Many used guns are in great condition and are a much better deal than a new one, its like a new car, after you drive it a mile off the lot, the value drops, same thing, after you shoot a box thru a gun, its value drops a bit.

Once you have thought of all this, is time to browse the web and read some reviews, or if you can, borrow and shoot a few types. You want the largest caliber gun that you can stand to shoot from the longest barrel you can stand to carry in a style that is comfortable and safe for your style of carry and preferences. Usually that means a subcompact 9mm or 40 or 10 mm caliber (and by caliber, I violate the true meaning. Here, its not JUST the bullet diameter, its also the amount of powder behind it. A .380 is the same diameter as a 9mm, with 1/4 the force due to a light powder load behind the bullet).

Once you have a general idea of what you might want, rough out a style, dimensions, and concerns (weight, price, etc) and then ask around here. People will love to share the piece that they carry with you, often with pictures, and from seeing what others are using, you can get an overall feel for what guns people trust their lives to on a daily basis. These guns that people talk about are most often the most reliable, easy to use, easy to conceal, etc, and very few people are going to suggest junk that malfunctions or breaks.

Hopefully this was a helpful overview, if you have any questions send me a personal message or ask around in the handgun carry area of the forums.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Jonnin

[TGO David]

Jon, some of your points are Internet folklore. Particularly the item of bigger holes. If I could put more rounds into a vital area, faster and with more accuracy, from a caliber that is fractions of an inch smaller ... Or put one insignificantly larger hole into the same area but with less speed, accuracy or potential for a quick follow up shot... Guess which one is more effective.

Anyone who choses size over efficiency and effectiveness is missing the point from a tactical perspective.

Sorry.

[Jonnin]

And now, specific answers to your specific questions.

Revolvers are great. The do not easily malfunction. If the ammo fails to fire, pull the trigger again, in an automatic you must rack the slide. Revolvers have to be pretty darn poorly made or very, very damaged/dirty to "jam". The only negative to a revolver is the 6 shot (sometimes 5!) limit, but the same people who make this into an issue will turn around and recommend a 6 shot semi-automatic (many of the really small guns are low capacity).

Kel tec guns are cheap and designed for personal defense. They are light weight and small. They are very reliable. Their service is outsanding if something breaks. The only issue is the trigger: each shot takes a massive pull on the trigger, I can barely shoot one at all, my wife cannot even shoot it once, and after a clip I have a sore finger. They are not range guns and if you want to shoot at the range, this is not for you. The recoil is not really so bad, if you have really strong hands, maybe --- however the guns also wear out a bit faster than more expensive ones (this is not too big a deal as kel tec will fix it, probably for free).

Home defense, you can use anything -- you do not have to conceal it. A shotgun is great, but anything you carry is acceptable and anything bigger than what you carry is also acceptable. The #1 choice is a 12 gauge shotgun.

If you want something for defense AND range, and home defense too, its a choice in style again but either a .357 revolver in a smallish frame (these shoot the much cheaper .38 special rounds on the range, for practice, keep the 357 ammo for defense and occasional range time as its pricy) would be excellent. If you want an automatic, a small frame .40 caliber or 10mm are really nice, I use a beretta PX4 subcompact in the .40 caliber. Both .40 and 10 mm ammo is expensive, and another similar caliber, the .357 sig (its the semi automatic attempt to make a 357 magnum) is also costly. If you want to shoot a lot at the range cheaply, a similar 9mm is going to have cheap ammo, hold more rounds, but it hits a little bit less hard in the same size gun. You can find 9mm ammo anywhere, the others are just not as popular and can be out of stock etc. The same gun (the beretta px4) is produced in 9mm as well. So is the kel tec pf9 or p-11 models if you can stand that trigger.

From what you are saying, though, I would look at some .357 revolvers for sure.

[Jonnin]

Jon, some of your points are Internet folklore. Particularly the item of bigger holes. If I could put more rounds into a vital area, faster and with more accuracy, from a caliber that is fractions of an inch smaller ... Or put one insignificantly larger hole into the same area but with less speed, accuracy or potential for a quick follow up shot... Guess which one is more effective.

Anyone who choses size over efficiency and effectiveness is missing the point from a tactical perspective.

Sorry.

I did not say that at all. I said to balance these concepts to help choose what you want. 2 9mm holes is bigger than a single .45 hole and more effective as it is double the chance to hit something important, no doubt about it. But, at the same time, if you only shoot one round, the 45 has a better chance of a kill. I said to get the largest thing that fits your carry style, ability to shoot it, and other needs, and I will stand by that --- on top of which, I said it was my opinion at the start.

Personally I like to carry in my pocket. As you can probably guess, then, I downsized the caliber to meet this requirement as a .45 just does not fit the style that I like. This is the balance that I mentioned at work --- there are a few pocket 45s but none that I care for, so I am now looking in the .40, 9mm, and 10 mm range. I do not like a revolver for carry, as I like more than 6 shots --- as you said, a couple of holes is better than 1 so if you plan to fire twice, having more capacity is also part of the balance. What I ended up with, then, is a .40 with 11 shots in it. I could have had a 9 with 15, but that was my choice, and if I need 15 shots, I am probably going to have a really, really bad day no matter what is in my pocket. I could also have had a .22 with 10 shots or a .25 etc, but again physics is not folklore, I can handle the larger calibers, so my final choice was a the .40 caliber, it is the compromise that fits my needs the best. Clearly other compromises fit other peoples needs the best, that is why there are so many guns out there to choose from, which is why I wrote all that. My goal was to get him to ask the questions that lead to the right gun for HIM. If my personal bias toward a hand cannon slipped in, I am sorry, thats the opinion part =)

[Guest CruiserZ31]

Wow, thanks for the welcome and all the information right off the bat. I definitely want to get the feel for a few more handguns before I make any sort of decision. My only time frame right now for gun ownership is "later" due to school and various other things. I would like to attend a few gun shows in between now and then though for sure.

[mikegideon]

I'm left handed, but (fortunately) shoot right handed. All my pistols favor right handed shooters. My M&P will let you flip the mag release over, but I don't think it has any other ambi features. Something to watch as you're looking for one.

[NashvilleStage]

Welcome to TGO, Stephen! (That's a excellent name to have, BTW)

As you've obviously found out, firearms & self-defense are subjects that attract strong opinions (whether or not they're necessarily true). Some topics are just about guaranteed to start a bar fight anytime you bring up the subject.

Some topics are (in no particular order):

- Caliber choice (big vs. small, how small is too small)

- Semi-auto vs. Revolver

- Speed vs. Accuracy

- Accuracy vs. Power

- How many shots will it take (if any) to stop someone, and how (if) that relates to caliber

- Big / slow bullets vs. small / fast ones

- Trigger style (SA, DA/SA, DAO, Striker-fired, etc...)

- Frame materials (Steel vs. Aluminum vs. Titanium vs. Polymer vs....)

- External safeties vs. internal safeties

- Concealed carry vs. open carry

- How much extra ammo to carry

- Do you carry a backup firearm or not (and how many)

- Is wearing an HCP "badge" a good idea

- Is TGOdavid's breath bad enough to incapacitate at 7 yards

- and what do you think of a guy named Kwik?

You know, just the normal, friendly, dispassionate debates of life.

Seriously, most of the folks around here are helpful & friendly. Just take everything you hear with a big grain of salt, and be cautious of the occasional pile of being shoveled around.