Concealed carry c&r

[mousegunner]

What are some readily available C&R handguns that would be suitable for concealed carry? Two qualities....

1. Readily available, easy to find and buy

2. Small and easy to carry concealed

[Randy L]

Mousegunner CZ82 in 9mm makarov $199.00 just wondering I have had a CZ82 they are great guns but there are better choices for carry Smith and Wesson 36 revolver Ruger LCP and many others

[pegasusrider]

Radom P64. $199 royaltigerimports.com

[ttocswob]

Ditto on CZ-82 and P64 - the Radom is my current EDC, easier to conceal IWB. The CZ stays nearby in my vehicle or go bag.

[1gewehr]

Remember, EVERYTHING that is 50 years old or older is a C&R. So if it was made in 1960 or earlier, it qualifies. Below is a short list of fine CCW candidates:

Walther PPk (pre-Interarms import)

Mauser Hsc (pre-Interarms import)

S&W 36 flat latch

Colt Agent and Cobra (check serial #)

Colt Commander (check serial #)

CZ82 as mentioned above

Polish P-63 & P64

Colt Model 1903

Savage 1907 & 1917

FN Browning 1922

Remington m51

Astra 300

Star models D, H, I, and S (year codes here: Star Firearms: Dating your Star Pistol with Proofmarks)

Russian and E German Makarov

[Jonnin]

1960 was not that long ago. There are a ton of revolvers and some weak semi autos like .25 and .22 calibers. Revolvers up to 38 special were made on compact frames back then. Also, a lot of 1 and 2 shot derringers in various calibers are nearly that old, not sure on the exact dates but surely some are pre 1960, and obviously there are some BP derringers that would work.

Can you give us a better requirement? Maybe a number of shots, caliber, or semi-auto vs revolver, etc? Max size and weight?

---------------------

Sorry to disagree but IMO the makarov is as good as a LCP or the like. The CZ is bigger than a LCP, but its a bigger caliber and holds more rounds and is more durable too. The old makarovs are not quite as good as the CZ but still fire a bigger round and still fit in your pocket, I carried a EG mak for years in my pocket, fits in man's jeans and dress pants easily but the sights tend to snag. There are better choices now, sure: in the same size a variety of true 9mm and even .40 calibers are available now, or much smaller 380s (somone needs to make a mak on the small 380 frames that are popular) have various advantages in either size or firepower, but the mak is a solid piece and for those that hate a DAO gun, its a good choice for a borderline (almost too big) pocket pistol.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Jonnin

[gregintenn]

Makarov.

[Randy L]

The only problem is finding a dealer that will sell you a gun on your C and R if it is not listed I have tried to explain that if a gun is 50 years old or older it is a Curio and Relic and does not have to be listed but I don't blame them I wouldn't want the KGB I Mean the BATFE coming down on me either

[Mason]

I hope to pick up a couple random C&R pistols in 9x18 when my licence comes. I want an old cheap gun to carry while on the tractors or lawn mower. I dislike getting dirt and grass in my .45 so if I can find something in the $100 range I'll buy three and designate one for "Farm Use" and see how it holds up.

[1gewehr]

I really have not had any problems like that. Send them this link:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

At the botton of page 35, you find:

"To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

( Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be

curios or relics of museum interest; and

© Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare,

bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

It is up to you to show them proof that the firearm in question meets one of those criteria. Serial number dating is very useful, and can be done for many manufacturers with either a web search or on their website.

[Jonnin]

I hope to pick up a couple random C&R pistols in 9x18 when my licence comes. I want an old cheap gun to carry while on the tractors or lawn mower. I dislike getting dirt and grass in my .45 so if I can find something in the $100 range I'll buy three and designate one for "Farm Use" and see how it holds up.

Get a real makarov then. Solid steel, a few parts (its a VERY simple gun design), easy to teardown and clean (get a rag, pull down the trigger guard, insert rag to hold it open, then pull the slide backwards, up, and forward off the barrel, done). It is a military sidearm and designed to take some abuse. Its accurate. And, its cheap and so is the ammo, you can get bulk ammo at $6 a box if you search for a deal on the internet. Its mostly a non issue NOW, but make sure that any cheap ammo you get is NON CORROSIVE. Its a royal pain to clean this gun properly after using corrosive ammo (requires a total teardown, boiling water, and scrubbing of some awkward nooks).

The cz is your best bet for a real carry piece, for self defense vs a thug, as it has more shots (double stack clip) and is a slightly improved design over the original. The originals are better for a farm piece, 8 shots should handle any animals and is enough for an intruder if necessary. If you pull off the sights or file them down, you can pocket carry this in most jeans, but the original sights are snaggy so you have to deal with them somehow. Beware the FEG and other guns that shoot the 9x18 cartridge, it/they are a fine gun but more complex and less friendly to being filled with dirt and such, harder to clean and more likely to fail from being dirty.

I doubt you can find a decent makarov for $100, though. Take a few moments to research them, as the country that made it matters (how good the gun really is depends on who made it), and to understand the non-makarovs that fire the 9x18 so you can tell the difference (many dealers will call a FEG a makarov, but it isnt). Also research your options, as the production dates exceed the 50 year rule, so some maks qualify as a C&R and some will not. Mine is a 1963, for example.

A good place to start is makarov.com which has a ton of great info on these guns, some of it out of date, but good info. For defense, buffalo bore makes a good ammo for the gun.

[Guest mr_b8908]

get you C&R on file with southern ohio gun and purchase a cz-82 for $159 the 13th..... Thats what im going to do. I just wiht the pa-63's were c&r cause there only $139!!!

[JAB]

I don't have a C&R but I do have a CZ-82. I have a P3AT, a Taurus-made Rossi .357 snub and a Ruger P95 that all carry well and take turns as primary, depending on where I am going, how I am dressed, etc. That said, as soon as I get ahold of some decent JHPs for my CZ-82 I am adding it to my carry options. For me, it points easily, feels good in my hand and is very accurate (if I am even remotely doing my part, it almost seems difficult to miss with that thing.) I like that it has a 12 round magazine while fitting in between my P95 and my P3AT with regard to size and bulk while having a higher capacity than my .357 (although I still have a soft spot for wheel guns.) I also like that, being a 'commie' gun, I have no qualms about firing steel cased ammo in it. FMJ in 9X18 has gone up in price at the LGS's in my area in the last couple of years but Academy sells their Monarch brand - which in 9X18 is steel cased - for just under ten bucks for a box of fifty. In both my mom's CZ-82 and mine the Monarch stuff has been just as accurate as Wolf, etc. - which is to say pretty darned accurate.

Edited December 9, 2010 by JAB

[Mason]

Thank you for the advice jonnin.

[Jonnin]

I don't have a C&R but I do have a CZ-82. I have a P3AT, a Taurus-made Rossi .357 snub and a Ruger P95 that all carry well and take turns as primary, depending on where I am going, how I am dressed, etc. That said, as soon as I get ahold of some decent JHPs for my CZ-82 I am adding it to my carry options. For me, it points easily, feels good in my hand and is very accurate (if I am even remotely doing my part, it almost seems difficult to miss with that thing.) I like that it has a 12 round magazine while fitting in between my P95 and my P3AT with regard to size and bulk while having a higher capacity than my .357 (although I still have a soft spot for wheel guns.) I also like that, being a 'commie' gun, I have no qualms about firing steel cased ammo in it. FMJ in 9X18 has gone up in price at the LGS's in my area in the last couple of years but Academy sells their Monarch brand - which in 9X18 is steel cased - for just under ten bucks for a box of fifty. In both my mom's CZ-82 and mine the Monarch stuff has been just as accurate as Wolf, etc. - which is to say pretty darned accurate.

This is what you want in your CZ:

9X18 Makarov +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo This is not the only round you can get, but its the hardest hitting defensive JHP that I know of short of loading your own. Hornady had one but it can be hard to get a box of it.

Trash amm online you can get for between 7 and 10 $ per box, if you are willing to buy 500-1000 or more rounds at a go. Its hit or miss on who has what brands in stock and for what price. Brown bear and sellier & belliot are the 2 types that I have bought this way, both are fine (few duds & non corrosive). Wolf also makes a cheap ammo for it, as does fiocchi, I have not tried either.

[JAB]

This is what you want in your CZ:

9X18 Makarov +P Pistol and Handgun Ammo This is not the only round you can get, but its the hardest hitting defensive JHP that I know of short of loading your own. Hornady had one but it can be hard to get a box of it.

Trash amm online you can get for between 7 and 10 $ per box, if you are willing to buy 500-1000 or more rounds at a go. Its hit or miss on who has what brands in stock and for what price. Brown bear and sellier & belliot are the 2 types that I have bought this way, both are fine (few duds & non corrosive). Wolf also makes a cheap ammo for it, as does fiocchi, I have not tried either.

My problem with buying practice FMJ online is that I generally don't buy in bulk so it isn't worth it, to me, to have to pay hazmat, shipping and handling, etc. Luckily, I can just make a little trip to Academy in Chattanooga (my wife and I generally find ourselves in Chattanooga every couple of months or so) and pick up a few boxes of Monarch FMJ for just under $10 each which probably works out to be a better deal, for me, than trying to order online. Wolf and Fiocchi FMJ are generally priced at $18 to $22 for a box of fifty in the LGS's in my area. Pretty ridiculous for a caliber that just a few years ago was cheap to feed but it is what it is.

Thanks for the heads up about the Buffalo Bore ammo. I have read that the CZ-82 is a stronger design than most true Makarovs and that Czech service 9X18 ammo was loaded a good bit hotter than most other 9X18 and probably hotter than most Makarovs could consistently handle. My only hesitation is that I wonder what Buffalo Bore means by "+P" and if there really is a SAAMI designation for +P in 9X18. I know that Buffalo Bore makes some .380 ammo that they claim is '+P' even though there is technically no such thing as +P in .380. Still, it would probably be worth ordering a box or two just to try it out and I appreciate the info. To this point, the only Buffalo Bore ammo I have tried is their 180 grain hardcast in .357 Magnum which they say is loaded to 'standard' pressures. I actually managed to find a box of that at Sportsman's Warehouse in Chattanooga. SW stocks a few types of BB ammo but I have never seen any 9X18 there or, in fact, any 9X18 JHP of any type.

I've got the owner of my LGS on the lookout for some 9X18 JHP for me. I told him that I wouldn't mind trying the Hornady stuff or even the JHP made my Silver Bear. If he can't find any or I don't like the way it performs, I will definitely have to check into the Buffalo Bore.

[Jonnin]

I dunno either. They shot the BB ammo in a CZ and it didnt explode, but admit that it wears out the gun faster (as hot loads do). Take a look at their stuff on shooting JHP in 380 and similar cartridges and consider alternating JHP and flat nosed rounds as one way to load up for defense, or something. They are not a fan of the JHP in makarov, but offer it anyway because people ask for it.

When I run outta bulk ammo I may check that monarch stuff out myself.

Here is another option:

9mm Makarov 70gr Pow'RBall | COR®BON/Glaser Self Defense | Dakota Ammo

Its a bit lightweight at 70 grains, but they make a lot of claims about it and the extra velocity should penetrate a bit more if you are concerned after reading the BB caveat.

[Garufa]

My problem with buying practice FMJ online is that I generally don't buy in bulk so it isn't worth it, to me, to have to pay hazmat, shipping and handling, etc.

There is no hazmat fee on loaded ammunition. That only applies to primers & power for reloading.

[morrisster]

cdnn has cz-82 makarov pistols for $149 IIRC

[Moped]

You all are forgetting the Tokarev. I don't owe one, nor have I fired one, but it has to be one of the flattest pistols I've ever handled. I always found them to be ugly, but they fit my hand very well. I think they would conceal very well. Better say than a Colt Commander or a Radom.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Moped

[Guest mr_b8908]

You all are forgetting the Tokarev. I don't owe one, nor have I fired one, but it has to be one of the flattest pistols I've ever handled. I always found them to be ugly, but they fit my hand very well. I think they would conceal very well. Better say than a Colt Commander or a Radom.

correct it is a very slim pistol, but they are pushing aroun ~$200 dollars unless you can find a used junky one for less at a show. Although this is a god option for around $300 you'd have a high power pistol, accesssories, and about 1200rds of ammo! I love the one I have and I've put several hundred rounds thru it with no issues!

[Jonnin]

That is a nice looking gun & ammo combo, never seen one of those. Looks to be much more potent than a makarov, if you want a more powerful sidearm.

[Guest mr_b8908]

the only thing is that i would not feel confident using a tokarev as a defence weapon because of its high rate of penetration. It would go through a bad guy, his partner in crime, a wall, and then maybe your neighbors house.

[First Strike]

I currently have a CZ-82 as my EDC. In a Kholster, its plenty concealable, and with its 12+1 capacity I have plenty of ammo. Cheaper than dirt sells FMJ for as low as 8.99 per 50 for Brown Bear, 9.89 for Tula, and 10.99 for JHP Silver Bear.

[JAB]

There is no hazmat fee on loaded ammunition. That only applies to primers & power for reloading.

Yeah, Robbie at Farnsworth's told me that it makes no sense that some places charge the hazmat fee for loaded ammo when there is no such fee. I trust him and believe that there really isn't such a fee but I have still seen such fees added to 'dummy' orders I have created online out of curiosity as to what it would cost to order ammo. I can't remember specific companies right now but I would have sworn that Buffalo Bore was one of them (although I see that they have now changed their cart setup and no longer give an itemized list showing shipping charges, etc.) I guess I should just avoid companies that try and charge hazmat fees for loaded ammo but being that I don't order bulk even paying 'normal' S&H charges for one or two boxes of ammo can mean paying 1/2 as much or more for shipping as the ammo, itself, costs. I don't want to hi-jack but any advice on places to order where shipping charges are low or nonexistent even on small orders would be appreciated.

I currently have a CZ-82 as my EDC. In a Kholster, its plenty concealable, and with its 12+1 capacity I have plenty of ammo. Cheaper than dirt sells FMJ for as low as 8.99 per 50 for Brown Bear, 9.89 for Tula, and 10.99 for JHP Silver Bear.

Sounds like good prices. I'm not sure I want to order from CTD, though, considering how they jacked up the prices of .380 ammo during the shortage. Raising the price a few bucks a box is understandable but seeing a price tag of nearly $60 for a box of FMJ left a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah, it may be simple supply and demand but it also seems like taking advantage of their customers.

Edited December 15, 2010 by JAB