My next home defense gun

[K191145]

Completely agree about the weakness of a pistol caliber as a fight-stopper. However, everything is a compromise, even at home. A rifle delivers a lot more energy on target, but at a cost. They are longer and heavier than a handgun. They are more difficult to maneuver and retain in close quarters. They require MUCH more training to use effectively than a handgun. They are very difficult to use one handed. They are also difficult to store safely, especially for those of us with small children.

Most people buy a shotgun thinking it's easy to use. They load it up and put in the closet. The reality is that shotguns need a significant amount of training and practice to use correctly. Buckshot will penetrate interior walls. They share all the same issues with other long guns when moving in confined spaces.

In a HD scenario, I'm using my handgun to move to my kids, then the shotgun once I get them back to my fixed defense position. YMMV.

I keep an 870 w/00 close by but I realize I probably wont use it, it's going to be my G21. So if a handgun what I choose to defend my home my attitude is I at least want the most effective caliber and round, get as much out of it as you can. So far I've never had to clear the inside of my house, but I feel better moving around with my Glock than my 870. My house is small and no encounter is going to be over 12 feet.

[mikegideon]

I keep an 870 w/00 close by but I realize I probably wont use it, it's going to be my G21. So if a handgun what I choose to defend my home my attitude is I at least want the most effective caliber and round, get as much out of it as you can. So far I've never had to clear the inside of my house, but I feel better moving around with my Glock than my 870. My house is small and no encounter is going to be over 12 feet.

I'm much more likely to have a pistol close to me, but personally, I'll grab my 870 if there's a choice.

[K191145]

I'm much more likely to have a pistol close to me, but personally, I'll grab my 870 if there's a choice.

It surely has the superior stopping power, I ultimatly decided on my pistol because it is always more available and faster to secure for me and I never kept the chamber loaded on my 870, just an extra step in a high stress situation, and I don't practice with it. If you feel better with your 870 than that's the best choice for you. A load of 00 in bad guys torso would definatly end his threat I would say, I may have to put a couple of 230gr +Ps in him.

[BigK]

I used to just think..."I have a gun, so I'm fine". Then I progressed to thinking..."now that I have a bigger gun, I'm fine". Now I think..."I can't prepare for everything, but I know what I'm best with".

That's why I think that what you are comfortable with is the best choice. My wife can put 4 or 5 shots on target with her .380 in the same time she can make 2 accurate shots with my .357 snubbie. That doesn't mean I think her Bersa is a superior choice, just that I'd rather her get more accurate rounds on target in less time, even if they aren't at effective as "stopping" someone. BG's don't like getting shot at and most can evaluate the risk vs reward of staying in our house.

I'm in the same boat, in a way. I have WAY more trigger time with handguns than long guns, so I feel like I'll be more effective under duress with one. I also agree that I only want to "have" to use one hand. That way I can fight someone off close up, guide my loved ones behind me, and reach for light swithes and door knobs.

That doesn't mean there aren't 2 loaded shotguns and a loaded rifle in our bedroom. Also, both my son and daughter (teens) have come straight to my room in the middle of the night when they heard the dogs get really riled up, like I taught them (they even said, "Dad it's <name> before the come in). Kind of made me proud.

added: It's not a perfect plan, but it's what we think is our best choice considering our strengths/weaknesses.

Edited December 18, 2010 by BigK

[mikegideon]

It surely has the superior stopping power, I ultimatly decided on my pistol because it is always more available and faster to secure for me and I never kept the chamber loaded on my 870, just an extra step in a high stress situation, and I don't practice with it. If you feel better with your 870 than that's the best choice for you. A load of 00 in bad guys torso would definatly end his threat I would say, I may have to put a couple of 230gr +Ps in him.

That's the whole issue. 1 well placed .45 may not stop them, especially if you're a little off center. It's most likely a shoulder wound from the 870 will stop them, or at least slow them down enough to get off a second round.

Like I said, I'm much more likely to have a pistol within reach. But, if you're gonna wind up having to put multiple holes in them anyway, you might as well do it in one shot if you have the option. I don't keep mine chambered either. Since the slide release is easier to reach than the safety, I figure it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

[K191145]

That's the whole issue. 1 well placed .45 may not stop them, especially if you're a little off center. It's most likely a shoulder wound from the 870 will stop them, or at least slow them down enough to get off a second round.

Like I said, I'm much more likely to have a pistol within reach. But, if you're gonna wind up having to put multiple holes in them anyway, you might as well do it in one shot if you have the option. I don't keep mine chambered either. Since the slide release is easier to reach than the safety, I figure it's 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Okay how about this? Maybe it would be better to have one chambered and the safety on because, you can add an extra load in the mag, also racking the slide would warn the intruder to where you are in the house then he would have the stealth advantage. Just thinking of the different options.

[mikegideon]

Okay how about this? Maybe it would be better to have one chambered and the safety on because, you can add an extra load in the mag, also racking the slide would warn the intruder to where you are in the house then he would have the stealth advantage. Just thinking of the different options.

Chambered is a better idea. We went down that road a few months ago. I just haven't had time to teach the girfriend how to deal with the gun yet. An accidental discharge means some drywall refinishing.

[K191145]

Chambered is a better idea. We went down that road a few months ago. I just haven't had time to teach the girfriend how to deal with the gun yet. An accidental discharge means some drywall refinishing.

Now there's an idea for a Christmas present, get her a nice 870 in 20 guage. She will probably bug you alot about taking her out shooting if she has her own shotgun, she will be eager to learn and no drywall repairs.

[Guest ab28]

That's the whole issue. 1 well placed .45 may not stop them, especially if you're a little off center. It's most likely a shoulder wound from the 870 will stop them, or at least slow them down enough to get off a second round.

I always expect to shoot someone more than once, no matter what I am using. If I am using a pistol, they are getting at least 3 rounds. I won't just fire once and see what happens.

[mikegideon]

I always expect to shoot someone more than once, no matter what I am using. If I am using a pistol, they are getting at least 3 rounds. I won't just fire once and see what happens.

Nothing wrong with multiple holes. We're just discussing the number of trigger pulls

[Guest Jamie]

I've seen people hit the deck and be DRT from one round of 9mm, and I've known at least one person who took a .30-30 through the middle at close range and still drew, shot, and killed his attacker.

Given that, I don't have any expectations at all when it comes to number of shots to fire. If one shot puts the "problem child" on their ass, hey, mission accomplished. But if the gun holds a hundred rounds, and they can stand there long enough for me to fire 'em, then that's what they're getting.

I will change my point of aim in an attempt to get better results if the first round or two fail, however...

[Oh Shoot]

I always expect to shoot someone more than once, no matter what I am using.....

... But if the gun holds a hundred rounds, and they can stand there long enough for me to fire 'em, then that's what they're getting...

While I know most "stopping power" stuff is horse pucky, still I must admit that within household distances, I do have the expectation that one round of 12g. double naught in COM will suffice.

- OS

[mikegideon]

While I know most "stopping power" stuff is horse pucky, still I must admit that within household distances, I do have the expectation that one round of 12g. double naught in COM will suffice.

- OS

My money sez it doesn't have to be COM. If you hit them with the full pattern at close range, it's major trauma.

[Guest Jamie]

While I know most "stopping power" stuff is horse pucky, still I must admit that within household distances, I do have the expectation that one round of 12g. double naught in COM will suffice.

- OS

I would expect it would as well, but I just can't bring myself to count on it being enough. I know Capt. Murphy is just too much of a smartass for that.

I would expect that a person putting a 12 ga. under their chin and pulling the trigger would send them off for harp playing lessons too, but there used to be a woman that you'd see around town here fairly often that did just that and lived.

It uglied her up beyond description but it didn't lay her to rest...

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jamie

[mikegideon]

I would expect it would as well, but I just can't bring myself to count on it being enough. I know Capt. Murphy is just too much of a smartass for that.

If one ain't enough, go ahead and mag dump 'em. You may wanna pick up a snow shovel next time you're at Walmart. It will help with the cleanup.

[Guest Jamie]

If one ain't enough, go ahead and mag dump 'em. You may wanna pick up a snow shovel next time you're at Walmart. It will help with the cleanup.

Nah... the carpets here have had it any way, so I'd just cut 'em loose from the walls, roll the whole mess up and haul it out the door... After I hosed down whatever was left of the wall they were standing in front of, that is.

[mikegideon]

Nah... the carpets here have had it any way, so I'd just cut 'em loose from the walls, roll the whole mess up and haul it out the door... After I hosed down whatever was left of the wall they were standing in front of, that is.

Well, if they manage to get in front of my fish tank, it will be a self-cleaning event. Just gotta get the door open fast enough

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Most modern trainers have moved away from shot count dogma for the exact reasons stated above. You never know how many rounds it will tAke to put someone out of the fight. Now, rather than teaching "2 to the chest, one to the head, then reassess" their teaching students to shoot, move (if possible) and keep shooting an moving until the threat goes down or runs off. Some have even stopped teaching the headshot alltogether, since it's a very small and dynamic target- and very easy to miss. Some of the better schools even utilize reactive targets that need either direct COM hits or multiple hits to go down, thereby breaking the students of any previously-learned dogma.

[Guest Jamie]

Judging by events at that school board meeting in Fl., an entire human body is pretty easy to miss....

Btw, I wouldn't count on someone who does a lot of, say... skeet shooting?... having trouble hitting a target the size of a human head with a long gun at "across the room" distances. That just seems like a losing bet to me.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jamie

[mikegideon]

Judging by events at that school board meeting in Fl., an entire human body is pretty easy to miss....

Politicians... they have a slimy protective coating.

[Guest Jamie]

Politicians... they have a slimy protective coating.

I have seen video of a U.S. Marshall dumping an entire mag of ammo at a fleeing felon, from "across a car trunk" distance, and not hit anything but the guy's coat tails...

The idiot was later caught and defended himself in court. Needless to say he lost his case.

Seems he wasn't nearly so good at the legal stuff as he was at dodging bullets.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Judging by events at that school board meeting in Fl., an entire human body is pretty easy to miss....

Btw, I wouldn't count on someone who does a lot of, say... skeet shooting?... having trouble hitting a target the size of a human head with a long gun at "across the room" distances. That just seems like a losing bet to me.

It only takes one pellet to break a clay pigeon.......and they don't shoot back if you miss. . But, I'd take that bet, so long as I could throw the clay directly at the shooter. Gotta up the danger factor a bit.

I never really thought about it, but I guess trap shooters would be really good at shooting a bad guy that was running away from them, really fast!

[Guest Jamie]

I never really thought about it, but I guess trap shooters would be really good at shooting a bad guy that was running away from them, really fast!

What I was thinking is that guys that make a hobby of that sort of stuff already have the muscle memory, hand/brain/eye training to track and fire on small, fast-moving targets. They'll probably follow through and get off a second shot, if the first one misses, that doesn't.

And what's the other shotgun sport... the one that simulates rabbits and such? ( Trap? ) Those folks would certainly seem to be naturals at head shots on moving human targets.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Jamie