My next home defense gun

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

If you watch video and read reports of home invasions. It is a reccurring theme that there are usually more than 3 people often times wearing armor. They hit fast and hard, coming into the home, killing everyone then looting the house.

They're the modern day Bartholomew Roberts.

Mike

Oh I am not trying to say it wont happen that way. But alot of people's choice on a HD gun will likely be based on a calculated risk of the odds of each type of incident happening as well as their proficiency with the weapon type. If someone doesnt have great marksmanship under pressure situations in low light they may be better off with a shotgun or handgun caliber weapon rather than a rifle. For those who feel they are proficient enough that they wont miss or have low collateral risk if they do then more power to you

[Guest ab28]

You know, you and I are on the same page. But frankly, I'm getting to where I'm cool with it if other people want to make fun and go through life ill-equipped or harboring silly notions of how simplistic and one-dimensional self defense encounters are. Because sooner or later the zombies are really going to overrun the world and these people are going to be food. And when that happens, I'd rather be up against a bunch of ill-equipped zombies than a bunch of zombies with good weapons.

I am not mocking anyone's choice of home defense weapons, I was just stating that people that think a handgun isn't adequate for home defense purposes should rethink that. I can't afford an M4 at the moment, but that will probably be my rifle when I get one, might as well not let that gov training go to waste. It is also the only rifle I have actual experience with in a gunfight. We all know that handguns aren't as good as rifles in a lot of respects, but that is why you practice failure drills with pistols. If they take a couple in the chest and aren't out of the fight, start putting rounds in their head.

As far as not missing, in a shootout your fine motor skills are gone, and you tend to be liberal in passing out the ammo. Houses are too close to me to risk killing some neighbor's kid if I miss. Out in the country, yeah, I would be using a rifle for HD, most likely.

Above all, you should shoot what you are most comfortable with. I wouldn't mind an SBR, but it is not in my budget any time soon. If you can afford one, that is great.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

I'd like to know what percent of home invasions feature a team of well-armed/armored robbers who go in and kill everyone, as Mike describes. I don't think it's terribly high. .

You know, I read the paper every day and watch the news every night and, in my experience, the average "home invader" is not beating down doors with carbines and body armor. Most seem to have shotguns, handguns and blunt instruments. They do tend to work in teams of 2-4. They also tend to target fellow drug dealers and other criminals/illegals.

As much as I would like to have a suppressed sbr, I don't think it necessary for most hd needs.

[Mike]

I'd like to know what percent of home invasions feature a team of well-armed/armored robbers who go in and kill everyone, as Mike describes. I don't think it's terribly high.

I doubt it's high on the list. But I think it's better to be prepared for that and it not happen than it would be to be prepared for one guy and have a half dozen show up.

Mike

[TGO David]

You know, I read the paper every day and watch the news every night and, in my experience, the average "home invader" is not beating down doors with carbines and body armor. Most seem to have shotguns, handguns and blunt instruments. They do tend to work in teams of 2-4. They also tend to target fellow drug dealers and other criminals/illegals.

As much as I would like to have a suppressed sbr, I don't think it necessary for most hd needs.

Always bring more than enough gun. If you're preparing for a fair fight, your tactics suck.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Always bring more than enough gun. If you're preparing for a fair fight, your tactics suck.

That's becoming a bit of a platitude.

Despite the fact that I don't have a sbr carbine stashed in every room of the house, I'd dare say that no one breaking into my house would consider the fight fair. Between the laminated glass security doors at all entry points, alarm system, 60lbs of stranger-hating dog and half a dozen baby gates (that seem to confound everyone), they'll have to deal one pissed-off homeowner armed with a high capacity handgun and evil black shotgun, with enough rounds in his room to defeat a small army, shooting from an elevated position and armed with an intimate knowledge of cover and concealment in my home that they can't possibly possess. Hmm, I think ill be ok.

[Guest ab28]

That's becoming a bit of a platitude.

Despite the fact that I don't have a sbr carbine stashed in every room of the house, I'd dare say that no one breaking into my house would consider the fight fair. Between the laminated glass security doors at all entry points, alarm system, 60lbs of stranger-hating dog and half a dozen baby gates (that seem to confound everyone), they'll have to deal one pissed-off homeowner armed with a high capacity handgun and evil black shotgun, with enough rounds in his room to defeat a small army, shooting from an elevated position and armed with an intimate knowledge of cover and concealment in my home that they can't possibly possess. Hmm, I think ill be ok.

I think some gun owners tend to forget about the importance of home security. Reinforced strike plates screwed into the studs around the doorframe, burglar alarms, break resistant glass, ect. A gun is a very important and irreplaceable part of home security, but the other stuff matters too. If it takes someone 5 kicks to get in your front door, that gives you time to grab your weapon and do whatever else you need to to get ready. I am not a big guy at all, I am 5'11 and 150 pounds, but I could kick in most average home doors with deadbolts with one or two hits. The bolt only goes into a flimsy door frame, and those cheap chain locks are worthless. Get a steel deadbolt socket with 3 inch wood screws and drill resistant cylinders for all your doors.

[shortround]

Not really an issue. The projectile will have bled off a ton of kinetic energy, if it's even still stable and traveling as a solitary unit, after passing through most common household construction materials. Besides, you're supposed to be keeping your rounds on target where they actually matter, not spraying and praying.

I have heard this - that overpenetration is really not a concern with a 55gr 5.56, especially hollow point. I plan to test it out on some mockup walls and such in the near future. In the meantime, I've begun keeping my AR in a handy location at home.

Edited December 7, 2010 by shortround

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

I think some gun owners tend to forget about the importance of home security. Reinforced strike plates screwed into the studs around the doorframe, burglar alarms, break resistant glass, ect. A gun is a very important and irreplaceable part of home security, but the other stuff matters too. If it takes someone 5 kicks to get in your front door, that gives you time to grab your weapon and do whatever else you need to to get ready. I am not a big guy at all, I am 5'11 and 150 pounds, but I could kick in most average home doors with deadbolts with one or two hits. The bolt only goes into a flimsy door frame, and those cheap chain locks are worthless. Get a steel deadbolt socket with 3 inch wood screws and drill resistant cylinders for all your doors.

Great points. Google "Larsen Secure Elegance". These are the types of doors I have installed. They are very thick and solid, and have three locking lugs. The glass is security laminated. A bg might get through, but not quickly. While he's trying, I'll be lying prone on my second floor landing putting slugs through the door.

[Guest ab28]

Great points. Google "Larsen Secure Elegance". These are the types of doors I have installed. They are very thick and solid, and have three locking lugs. The glass is security laminated. A bg might get through, but not quickly. While he's trying, I'll be lying prone on my second floor landing putting slugs through the door.

I framed houses for a couple of years before I went into the Army, and we would arrive at a subdivision full of foundations with lumber packages in the front yard. We would move to the next house after framing the first one. A few times, we had to do some trim work on a house, and I got to watch the other crew put a front door in. It is inside a thin wooden frame and attached at all 4 sides with a few nails shot through the frame. Most front doors wouldn't stop an angry 5 year old.

[Guest FiddleDog]

+1 Ab28 - you are the weapon. The gun is a tool.

On a side note, have you considered a 45-70 guide gun? Not so tacticool, but it'll get the job done - probably quite messily. Or a 30-30. It should defeat soft body armor pretty easily, and ceramic armor just doesn't sound like the sort of thing that someone who's just looking to break in would have...

Edited December 8, 2010 by FiddleDog

[RobertNashville]

I've recently been thinking about a new home defense gun. Currently I leave my carry gun, Glock 26, on the night stand along with my Surefire E2D LED for social work in the dark and do have a 20ga ready to go with buckshot.

But now I'm starting to think about either stepping up to a 12ga with the intent of someday going through the NFA process and cutting it down to a 14in with the surefire forend or getting a fullsize larger caliber pistol, like a Glock 21sf equipped with some sort of rail mounted light.

Opinions and suggestions? Thanks

To each his own but I really think a 20ga is not only a sufficient shotgun gauge for home defense, it might even be superior to a 12ga and if I already had a 20 I doubt I'd then go for a 12.

Frankly, I prefer a 556 (AR 15, SCAR, etc) as the best overall choice for home defense (although I still have a 12ga pump and at least one handgun handy for those purposes). Aside from the reasons already cited, with the 556 there is less risk of overpenetration.

If the AR15 isn't within your pocketbook I understand but in that case, I wouldn't spend money on a 12 ga unless you have other uses for it.

Just my $0.02

[wadejjet]

To each his own but I really think a 20ga is not only a sufficient shotgun gauge for home defense, it might even be superior to a 12ga and if I already had a 20 I doubt I'd then go for a 12.

That's the way I'm leaning now. It has a long vent rib barrel on it now so I'll pick up a 18 incher and be good to go. Plus it'll be easier for my wife to handle.

[Guest RevScottie]

The popular choice of gear for home invaders in our area seems to be the ever popular dark colored hoodie or perhaps a colored bandana.

[mikegideon]

To each his own but I really think a 20ga is not only a sufficient shotgun gauge for home defense, it might even be superior to a 12ga and if I already had a 20 I doubt I'd then go for a 12.

Just my $0.02

OK, I'm confused. Nothing wrong with a 20, but how would it be superior to a 12 in any way?

[RobertNashville]

OK, I'm confused. Nothing wrong with a 20, but how would it be superior to a 12 in any way?

Well; these come to mind (and these are general; I'm sure there are specific exceptions)...

1. less expensive ammo

2. slightly lighter weight of the gun/maybe a little easier to handle

3. 20ga still makes a heck of hole and the difference is negligible (especially to someone on the receiving end!)

4. slightly less felt recoil

Now...as i mentioned above I have a 12ga pump (a Benelli Super Nova Tactical) precisely for home defense use but if I had already had a 20ga I doubt I'd have gone out a bought a 12ga because at the end of the day, I think a 20ga will do the same job quite nicely.

[mikegideon]

Well; these come to mind (and these are general; I'm sure there are specific exceptions)...

1. less expensive ammo

2. slightly lighter weight of the gun/maybe a little easier to handle

3. 20ga still makes a heck of hole and the difference is negligible (especially to someone on the receiving end!)

4. slightly less felt recoil

Now...as i mentioned above I have a 12ga pump (a Benelli Super Nova Tactical) precisely for home defense use but if I had already had a 20ga I doubt I'd have gone out a bought a 12ga because at the end of the day, I think a 20ga will do the same job quite nicely.

If I had a suitable 20, I probably wouldn't replace it either. With that said, i want as many little lead balls as I can get without breaking my shoulder.

[Guest ab28]

If I had a suitable 20, I probably wouldn't replace it either. With that said, i want as many little lead balls as I can get without breaking my shoulder.

What I have heard of a 20 gauge is it is 2/3 the power with half the recoil of a 12 gauge. That is probably oversimplified.

[ttocswob]

OK, I'm confused. Nothing wrong with a 20, but how would it be superior to a 12 in any way?

Consider the 20-gauge shotgun Massad Ayoob - good article on the subject.

Key point: 20 delivers 62.5% payload for 55% less recoil that the 12.

[RobertNashville]

If I had a suitable 20, I probably wouldn't replace it either. With that said, i want as many little lead balls as I can get without breaking my shoulder.

No argument there and a look in my gun safe would show that I tend to like "big" caliber weapons over small caliber ones but at the end of the day, I wouldn't overlook a 20ga and assume I had to have a 12 for HD purposes.

[Guest tngw1500se]

I carry a XDSC. All other guns are locked up when I'm not home. I don't want to come home and find burglar with my gun in his hands. That's why I don't use a shotgun for HD. I'd rather catch him unarmed.

[Mike]

I carry a XDSC. All other guns are locked up when I'm not home. I don't want to come home and find burglar with my gun in his hands. That's why I don't use a shotgun for HD. I'd rather catch him unarmed.

WTF are you smoking?

[Guest Ae-35]

WTF are you smoking?

My thoughts too !!!!!!

[Guest chaplain tom]

Why not go with a full auto tommy gun? Full auto 45 acp baby YEAH!

Why not stay in the realm of reality for a while. It's a nice place to visit.

You are a wise man David. Fantasy is for Disney World not while discussing home defense.

Edited December 18, 2010 by chaplain tom

[Guest Jamie]

Harsh language?

Stand outside my house sometime and tell me what you hear when my dogs figure out you're there and I have to "out-bark" them to try and get them to calm down.

Oh, and a short rifle/carbine on a sling is pretty easy to clear a house with. Even shouldered, it doesn't really stick out in front of you much more than a pistol held in a normal shooting position. And the sling enables you to free up a hand if the need arises, while still maintaining some control of the gun. You should still be able to manage about as well as you would with a pistol, while carrying a child or other object. Plus, if you need to release the gun altogether, you don't have to worry about losing it or re-holstering it.

I'm still fond of short side-by-side shotguns, but a handgun of some kind in reserve is a requirement for me.

Got no need for full-auto... Too much risk for serious liability and problems. Plus it's probably just over-kill.

I have cleared houses and buildings with a slung Remington 870 with an 18.5 inch barrel... It's doable, but the Remmy is awfully heavy and a bit difficult to maneuver with only one hand if needed. And I'm just not really crazy about guns that require two hands to operate them - like pump shotguns - for home defense.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Jamie