CZ-82 vs Kel Tec PF-9 vs Taurus PT709 Slim.

[Guest TN.Frank]

Well, I find myself gunless. Had to sell my Taurus 605 to keep my truck running. Now I need to find a new pistol for CCW use and have been looking at a few different options. I can get a CZ-82 on my C&R and have it sent to the house, no fuss, no muss for about $220 bucks. Of course then I'd have to buy some 9x18mm ammo for it.

Or I can go with one of the compact 9's like a Kel-Tec PF-9 for around $250 or a Taurus PT709 (not sure what the price would be, Dave's had one locally for $429, way over priced, think they go for around $325 new IIRC.). I've read good and bad about the Taurus pistols. Read good about the Kel-Tec and of course I've read a lot of good about the CZ. Just wonder what thoughts ya'll have on the matter. It'll probably be sometime after we get our tax return back, maybe February, before I get anything so I've got plenty of time to ponder this choice.

[iyaoyas98]

I hate the DAO trigger on the PF9. I only put 50 rounds through it before it was gone. The Taurus is a much nicer shooter. I don't have any experience with the CZ, but they kinda pique my interest as well.

[maroonandwhite]

Have never more than a few shots with the taurus slim's but it didn't feel terrible in my hands despite its size. I have read plenty of the bad on taurus as well but am having great luck with my millennium pro. That does seem pretty high of a price though but I would give it a try. My next few handguns will probably be a taurus unless something happens.

[Guest TN.Frank]

I've always had good luck with the few Taurus pistols I've owned. The PT709 Slim felt pretty good in my hand and I love the trigger. I still need to give the PF-9 a look, at only 13 oz unloaded it'd be a joy to carry. The CZ-82 would be about twice the weight but, having had a CZ-83 many years ago I do remember that the grip fit my hand like a glove and it wasn't all that bad to pack in an IWB holster.

I just wonder if I should "cut out the middle man" and get the CZ on my C&R or maybe get the Kel-Tec or Taurus.

[walton6467]

I carry a PF-9 every day. This gun has never failed to feed and everytime I've ever pulled the switch, it goes bang and isn't tough to hold on target with a little practice.

On the downside, the Keltec bluing is crap, the slide rusted so badly, that I had the gun duracoated. Its got a pretty healthy kick, after a mag or two at the range my hand is numb. And lilke a previous poster said that DAO trigger feels a mile long.

It does take some getting used to, but I do like the little gun for what it is and for what I invested.

[kesava]

Taurus is actually fun to shoot. pf9 pinky grip fits on the mags. So easy to carry I forget I have it on me. Very nice ccw for summer and running. I dont regret that purchase at all. I have had a bunch of Taurus handguns and no issues to speak of.

[Garufa]

Southern Ohio Gun is having a one day sale on CZ-82's December 13th. $159.95

Price is also available on the 15th as are all their other one day deals being offered in December.

[hkusp40cal]

The PF9's trigger does get better with rounds. It is around a 6-7 lb trigger which isn't horrible for a DAO considering the J farmes are 10-12 lbs. I have never had an issue with my PF9. The only thing I have heard on the Taurus slim is if you get a good one you have a good one. Otherwise you will be sending it back for work.

[Guest peacexxl]

Throw a Hogue Handall Jr on the pt709 and it is a dream to shoot.

[Guest smileyguy]

Southern Ohio Gun is having a one day sale on CZ-82's December 13th. $159.95

Price is also available on the 15th as are all their other one day deals being offered in December.

I've been pumped about the SOG sale. I'm thinking about buying another one as a christmas gift to myself. The CZ 82 is a great value even at the regular prices. I recommend these to anyone. Very reliable and very soft shooters with a higher power wolff spring. The 9x18 is a little weaker than 9x19, but you have the advantage 12+1 capacity. They are a bit larger and heavier than the Kel Tec or Taurus. I had a Kel Tec PF9, which I wish I still had. Did the Kel Tec fluff & buff. Put about 220 rounds through it with 0 malfunctions. The Kel tec is definately not a range gun. Your hands will fill it if you run a couple of boxes through it, but that is the sacrifice for having such a small, light, concealable 9mm. On the other hand, update the recoil spring on the CZ and you have a pistol that is a pleasure to shoot all day long. I have no experience with that particular Taurus.

[CordovaToter]

My PF-9 is still my favorite carry gun. Every now and then I grab my G27 thinking I 'NEED' to carry something 'better'. Truth is the G27 isn't as comfortable for IWB and the PF-9 just disappears and I almost forget I'm carrying it. The slimness is just hard to beat in a 9X19. Not to knock the Taurus line, I own 3 versions and the Millenium PRO in .45 ACP is a fun gun too shoot. Just a little too large for a thin guy like me to carry around without giving myself away. Just my 2 cents.

[Guest Synghyn]

Personally the Kel-Tec just didn't feel right in my hands, but I never did get a chance to shoot it, so take that for what it's worth. I've shot a couple of Taurus and liked the feel just fine and never experienced any major issues. There are a lot of stories out there though, so I'm guessing they must be at least a little hit and miss. I've got a CZ-83 and it is honestly the most comfortable gun I've ever held, just fits me like a glove. My wife likes it alot as well, and frankly she shoots it better than I do. In 500 or so rounds we have never had a single failure to do anything. When you pull the trigger it goes bang, period. On the other hand it is both bigger and proportionally heavier than either of the other guns. So I'd vouch for the quality and reliability of the CZ 100%, but the weight could really be an issue for some in carrying comfort. I'd make sure I handled each in person and maybe tuck them each in your waistband or some such to get a feel for the weight.

Syn

[Mad_Squirrell]

I also have the PT709 its "ok" for what its for. It goes bang every time I pull the trigger but it is not comfortable to shoot for me. The trigger guard digs into my middle finger .I have decided to keep it for now, but it may go away if I find a suitable replacement .

[Guest Drewsett]

The CZ-82/83 is an extremely viable option for EDC, IMHO.

I carry one ever day when I am at home. I can't say that I forget that it's there, but it sits pretty comfortably in my Falco IWB holster

I carry it around 5 or 530ish, it only really prints if I bend fairly low at the waist or deeply squat.

I have only experienced positive results at the range. The gun is more accurate than I am, and I'm usually pretty accurate. The three dot sights may be a little faded (most of the C&R guns are police trade ins that have seen some years of carry) but they wake up pretty well with some bright white nail polish. The gun points so intuitively I would almost think I could hit my target with my eyes closed. Like others here have said, it fits the hand like a glove. I have hard to fit hands with almost freakishly large palms, yet the gun fits both my and my wife's tiny hands equally well.

As these guns are police-trade ins of some age, I agree with the others who have suggested replacing the recoil spring. Wolff makes a 3 spring variety pack that lets you get the recoil tuned in just right. When first firing a 'new' CZ-82, it is not uncommon for the brass to eject with considerable force causing brass clean up to be interesting. The recoil can also be surprising, the beavertail on the gun can really work the web of the hand after a nice range session. Replacing the spring with a newer, stiffer one will solve these issues.

As far as ammunition concerns, there are a plethora of options.

FMJ range ammunition can be had for 10$ per 50, and occasionally on sale for 8$ at Academy, their Russian steel-cased Monarch brand.These guns are what people had in mind when they came up with the term over-engineering. These guns were built to eat this ammo. I also like the Fiocchi ammo which is readily available online and occasionally at gunshops for 12 or 20 dollars, respectively. It is brass cased, boxer primed and, I believe, reloadable.

For self defense ammunition I have found some interesting research about the 9x18's penetration when using Hornady XTP bullets. I can't seem to find the link at the moment, but there was a handloader who posted some penetration and expansion results from the 95-grain XTP HP that matched or exceeded comparable 9x19 rounds in 124 and 115 grain. It was certainly enough to make a believer out of me, and after I sourced 150 rounds of this ammo for 25$ per 25 (relatively decent for local) at the gun shop off Charlotte Pike near Costco (the name escapes me), I put 100 through my gun and was quite satisfied with the results; no FTF or FTE at all. I keep the remaining 50 for carry. To be honest, I've never had an issue with this gun, period.

The gun itself is incredibly easy to maintain. Field stripping involves dropping the magazine, pulling down and out on the trigger guard, and pulling the slide back and off the frame. The only tricky part is making sure you do it in a way that prevents the recoil spring from throwing itself across the room. The polygonal rifling makes it very accurate and pretty easy to clean.

I personally considered all three of the guns you are considering OP, and I decided on the CZ. For the money, you really just can't beat it.

[Guest TN.Frank]

I've read that the 16.5# spring is a lot better for recoil control(like this little gun will have any.LOL) then the stock 14.5# so that's probably the spring that I'll go with. Still thinking about that PF-9 though. Also the Ruger SR9c if I can find a decent price on one. No way I'd pay the $469 that Dave's is asking, especially since I saw where a guy on another forum got one out the door from a place for $385.

I'm just glad I've got some time to hash things over and figure out what I'd like. It'll probably be the only gun that I'll own for a while so I'd like something nice but not expensive since I'd like to get a limited slip diff in my truck and will need funds for that. Anyway, talk to ya'll later.

[Jonnin]

Those are totally different styles. You have to consider if you like a double action only gun (the kel-tec), a double action gun, a weak gun (makarov, the cz 82 is mak and like a 380 unless I tangled my model numbers?), and more.

My wife has a tarurus slim. Its awesom, small and such, but it jumps around a lot when I shoot it due to no weight, its hard for me to manage the follow up shots. I have this same trouble on nearly every defensive 9mm out there though, its just something about plasic guns and my style. If you can handle the recoil, its a very nice piece. Internal DA style, nice safety easy to hit as you draw it.

I have a p-40 which is the same as a p-11. Its trigger requires a body builder to pull: its almost 9 pounds over a long travel. If you can handle this, its an excellent weapon. If you cannot, its hard to shoot. Kel tec service is awesome, and it has to be, their guns are a bit cheap and prone to break after a few thousand rounds and are often in need of some dremel tool action out of the box.

CZ has a moderat trigger pull, other than that their weapons are first class. The 82, again, is a makarov and thats a glorified 380, much weaker than a 9mm for self defense in a package that is too large (its a massive gun for so weak a caliber, the tarurus is no bigger!). If this is also found in 9mm, you can ignore that -- in which case, its a fine gun. I like the cz style best: hammer down, chambered, safety off, pull the hammer back as you draw and fire as you point to the target. This can be said of the tarurus though, instead of a hammer you draw and click off the safety, same idea. The extra weight and steel in the cz makes them easier to fire and control recoil.

But you have to find your own balance of trigger pull, weight, and style before choosing one of these, because each represents a totally different set of personal choices. I mean, I hate double action only guns, but many love them, so its just a personal thing.

[Guest TN.Frank]

I made up my mind that I'm going to go with something closer to a full size and that I'm going to get over my dislike for the 40cal. Looks like a nice, used Police turn in Beretta 8040F Cougar in 40cal will be the gun I'll get if they still have em' in stock when I get the funds. I'm sure my Nephew can get a good deal on ammo thru the Nashville PD, maybe the three of us(my brother, him and I) can get a case of 40cal and split it up so we'll be stocked. The Cougar will run $315+$18 S/H +$32 Transfer for a total out the door of $365, you just can't get a Beretta for that most of the time, especially since this was a $700 gun when it was new.

Just need to be patient now and hope we get our tax money back fast after we do our taxes.

[Guest buttonhook]

I'm going to say walther pps....I own one so I'm a little bias but every one I let shoot it cant believe how accurate the thing is and in weighs enough that its not bad to shoot yet still thin enough to hide

[CWW710]

I agree with peacexxl. I put the Hogue on myPT709. I LOVETHIS GUN! Shoots great...Single action trigger is wonderful...and it carries very well (even more comfortable than my P3AT. I cant stress the carry factor enough...

[BigK]

I made up my mind that I'm going to go with something closer to a full size and that I'm going to get over my dislike for the 40cal. Looks like a nice, used Police turn in Beretta 8040F Cougar in 40cal will be the gun I'll get if they still have em' in stock when I get the funds. I'm sure my Nephew can get a good deal on ammo thru the Nashville PD, maybe the three of us(my brother, him and I) can get a case of 40cal and split it up so we'll be stocked. The Cougar will run $315+$18 S/H +$32 Transfer for a total out the door of $365, you just can't get a Beretta for that most of the time, especially since this was a $700 gun when it was new.

Just need to be patient now and hope we get our tax money back fast after we do our taxes.

If you like that deal and you're already warmed up to a .40 S&W, Bud's has the S&W/Walther P990 trade-ins for $319 shipped! It's 4oz lighter and I personally think it feels better in my hand than the Beretta.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Kel-Tec PF9 is for keeps

Edited December 17, 2010 by TargetShooter84
spelling

[Guest highvoltage]

i have the pf9 and love it. seems its the one i always grab in the mornings and strap to my side. its so light and thin i never know its there. its accurate light thin.not something you want to go to the range and play with because of the recoil.like targetshooter said its a keeper in my book.