Wikileaks Documents

[East_TN_Patriot]

I'm curious to see what folks think about the Wikileaks issue. I can see both sides of it. If the documents expose corruption, malfeasance, and incompetency with our political and military leaders, then all the better. It's obvious from the reports I have seen on Drudge that we have been sleeping with the enemy (Pakistan & Saudi Arabia), and ignoring serious threats from Iran and North Korea. On the other hand, if the documents place soldiers and other government officials at risk of harm, then I have a major problem with it. I'm not worried about the documents damaging our reputation; we are playing the same games as everyone else and most of the world hates us anyhow.

Before people start the debate, keep in mind a couple of things:

1) Wikileaks is not a US based organization. It's organized, funded, and hosted internationally.

2) The Wikileaks founder and employees are not American citizens.

I say this because I see posts on the web calling this a form of treason and calling for US criminal charges. The US government has no control over or recourse with an international group or foreign citizen acting on foreign soil. The way I see it is the US has two options here:

1) Block the site here in the US, much like China does with sites they don't like.

2) Figure out how the heck to protect their sensitive documents. This isn't the first time classified documents have been leaked.

Now, discuss.

[Garufa]

Apparently the Germans have a problem with data privacy and protection issues. Seems like they believe in it.

Cable Viewer

demonstrate that the U.S. has strong data privacy measures in place

What a riot.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Garufa

[Guest HvyMtl]

1. Find the Sources.

2. Prosecute them - file Treason charges, and / or spying Charges.

3. Put them in the worst prison environment in existence in the U.S.

As for Wikileaks, well...

1. Designate the group as a terrorist site, as they are putting troops and diplomats at risk.

2. Request the government of Sweden (and other nations where wikileaks servers are located) to discontinue their internet access.

3. As a designated terrorist group, request under previously established agreements, a freezing of their assets and their founder's assets.

4. Aid in the capture of the founder, and make sure he stands trial for the rape accusation against him...

[Jasongar8]

Ok can someone give me the run down of what happened? The cliff notes version will do.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Cliff Note Version: Wikileaks is a website which has been posting U.S. Military and Diplomatic Documents, by the thousands... Documents which are Secret, and are legit security risks... The owner, I believe is Swede, and is not a U.S. Citizen, but does have outstanding rape charges... and he is in hiding.

[leroy]

I think the lesson here is a variation of what the great John Wayne said in one of the old time westerns. "...I hate a secret!! They cant be kept! ....".

I dont want to see this country (...or any allies, for that matter...) have military personnel endangered thru this type stuff. We are doing enough of that through our own foolish actions.

That being said; I don't have a big problem with american opinions being publically stated on individual leaders, foreign policy, and "...calling a spade a spade..." on some of the self-serving actions of other countries who purport to be our allies. I believe that the oil sheiks believe they have bought us (...i'm beginning to believe that one myself...) and view us as "paid mercenaries" to do the dirty work they cant do themselves and remain "leaders and brother muslims". I think the chinese distain us and believe they will finally own us as a "vassal state" (...even i'm beginning to believe that one too...). The list goes on and on...

Remember this one thing; the USA lost the "high moral ground" in the diplomatic arena a long time ago when we started cozing up to our enemies, backing thugs in government coups in other countries, pardoning and using our old enemies in the espionage business, and doing all the the things that the foolish do. We sell out our allies and embrace our enemies depending on the whim of the administration that is in power and do whatever looks to be expedient at the time. When you do those things, you can't expect anybody to respect you; --- be he friend or foe. The despots of the world have to be "laughing their collective a**es off at the antics of the current administration (...and some of it's predecessors, too; both demorat and republican...) over American foreign policy since the end of WW2.

I believe our "word needs to be our bond" regardless of administration. I believe that we need to call our enemies our enemies, and i believe we need to call out those (...including the chinese...) who do things that cause mischief and harm. We need to stop this "damnable double speak" when we talk to our friends and our enemies. Mabee the Wikileaks thing will embarass us enough for us to quit this damn appologizing to everyone for everything and cause us to call a "spade a spade" and to stand with our allies and against our enemies; but i aint gonna hold my breath waiting for it.

Food for thought.

Leroy

[Raoul]

Ok can someone give me the run down of what happened? The cliff notes version will do.

Army private gets access to restricted docs on the gov's private internet.

Army private leaks hundreds of thousands of pages of diplomatic docs, mil docs, etc to Wikileaks

Wikileaks turns it loose.

hits the fan.

Wikileaks founder is an Aussie named Julian Assange

[Guest HvyMtl]

+1 Leroy

[Oh Shoot]

Not a lot of new info so far, but more confirmation of what was always assumed.

Of course, the US lies down with dogs; we've been directly and indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions throughout the years.

We've armed both Iran and Iraq in the past, AND Afghanistan, and it's ironic that to some extent, our GIs have been shot at with weapons we bought. Iran's present system of (sort of) theocratic rule is a direct antithesis to the US support of the cruel and corrupt Shah Pahlavi rule. Etc, etc. Nothing more ironic than real life.

So far the surprises have been more in the nature of gossip and backbiting, although other Muslim countries' desire to see Iran destabilized doesn't indicate solidarity with the US as much as just the continued rift between Arab and Persian. Remember, we (and Israel) are relative newcomers in the Middle East as far as being political powers, the Arabs and Persians have been in contention of a thousand years or more.

Anyway, the data is out there now, so might as well see the positive side of it; since I'm a firm believer that we should have NO fighting force anywhere in the Middle East from day one, it's all the more reason to get our guys the hell outta there if indeed there is any actual additional risk posed by the information release.

I probably wouldn't feel so strongly about it if the US didn't have a history of covering up involvement in Very Bad Things and the political corruption that made them possible under the guise of "national security".

- OS

Edited November 30, 2010 by OhShoot
clumsy syntax

[Jasongar8]

Cliff Note Version: Wikileaks is a website which has been posting U.S. Military and Diplomatic Documents, by the thousands... Documents which are Secret, and are legit security risks... The owner, I believe is Swede, and is not a U.S. Citizen, but does have outstanding rape charges... and he is in hiding.

Army private gets access to restricted docs on the gov's private internet.

Army private leaks hundreds of thousands of pages of diplomatic docs, mil docs, etc to Wikileaks

Wikileaks turns it loose.

hits the fan.

Wikileaks founder is an Aussie named Julian Assange

Thank you gentlemen. I am doing some more reading about it now.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

If our security is that lacking, there needs to be a top to bottom cleaning out.

I know there are folks that think Assange can hide behind the "journalism/1st Amendment"

shield, but I think he is an enemy combatant. The private or whoever leaked the docs

should be tried for treason and Assange should keep on the run because his ticket is

about to be punched.

[TGO David]

Assange should keep on the run because his ticket is

about to be punched.

If Assange had done something like this to say, oh... I dunno... the Israelis... he'd already be dead by now. It's a shame that we've become a little too "civilized" in terms of how we allow our government to handle those that threaten our national security.

[JayC]

Guys, he's not a terrorist, he's not doing anything different from other major news papers in this country and around the world, he's just doing it on a massive scale and not smoothing around the edges...

How many times in the last 10 years have you read about some leak of a "critical" program here in the New York Times? 100's. How many stories do you watch on news shows that have unconfirmed reports of some secret information? I watch 2 Sunday talk shows, not a week goes by without something be said that clearly was classified and was leaked to the press. This leaking happens all the time, in small amounts... the reality is that most of the 'secret' facts in the Afghan and Iraqi leaks had already been leaked to the press!

Wikileaks is a news publication, it's an equal opportunity annoyance, while most American's have only heard about these releases of US Government documents, they've been releasing stuff about governments around the world, banks involved in illegal activities, religious groups with questionable motives, and anything else they get their hands on... Just like how I don't always agree with what I read in the newspaper, I don't always agree with what I read on news websites, but they're both protected.... I don't want to see 'journalists' from the New York Times locked up for publishing a leak, even though I don't agree with a lot of the leaks they publish.

We're not going to block the wikileaks website... If we talked Ireland and Sweden into down the websites, they would just move to another country... The data is mirrored in 100's of places around the world already... The world has changed, there is no way to close Pandora's box... Here is the real question... what else are they sitting on, they have this MASSIVE insurance file sitting out there, and the data they've released so far is a tiny drop in the buck compared to the size of that insurance file... what is the next shoe to drop?

This release hasn't directly hurt our national security... it's embarrassing... it shows some of the stupid stuff we're doing as a government... but no real secrets were released... no troop movements, specs on weapons, communications technologies were compromised. This is just embarrassing for us and the rest of the world.

So, who should be charged? The guy who stole the information and violated his oath... thrown him und3er the bus, he's the only one in this mess that has broken the law.

And what should we do to stop this? Maybe not place 'secret' files out on a server where every PFC in every TOC on the planet has access to them.... Why on earth did PFC Manning have access to 250,000+ secret cables from the State Department? You wonder why all of our secrets get leaked to the media in short order, it's probably because so many people who have access, the vast majority of which don't have a need to access such information.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I didn't realize it was okay because it's been done

before.

I've heard Assange was a stooge funded by Soros

to do this sort of thing. I think it was Beck who said

that. I won't argue about whether he is a credible

news agency because evidently news can be okay

if it's from the back of a dog food can in the trash

can.

Yep, the news is out and all that can be done is

damage control, if need be. If there are any state

secrets given out, Assange needs to be hunted

down. I imagine he was warned and I would

consider him an enemy of the state.

Maybe we will learn something from this and guard

our secrets better. Maybe not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest db99wj]

I don't have that much of a problem with wikilinks, just another douchbag "news" agency or info source. The main problem is with the scumbag traitor 22 or 24 year old private that stole the info and and gave it to them for what I assume as a large sum of money. Hope he gets to spend a long life in prison and never gets out. Hopefully our security gets better because of it.

[mousegunner]

I heard on the news that the government intranet which contains all the classified information is accessible by 2 million government employees. Seems to me, that if info is classified top secret, only a few need to know people should have any way to access the material. In other words, USA government info security is really, really poor. So, this sort of thing is bound to happen.

But I really don't trust governments in general, including the USA government. So, I say: open all the windows and let the light stream in. Don't let the corrupt cover up their corruption.

[JAB]

This is a post I made about the subject on another forum:

I think there are just too damned many things that our government feels is their right to keep 'classified'. Yes, some current counterintelligence measures and some current military plans need to be secret in order to keep agents and soldiers safe. I get that. However, the idea that the government can just decide that untold numbers of communications, decisions, etc. - even some that are decades old - need to be 'secret' and that the public - you know, the people they are supposed to be working for - have no right to see those documents is a load of horse crap. I mean, if your boss came to you and said, "I need to see your report on such and such," and you responded, "Sorry - it's a secret and I'm keeping it secret for your own good," then how long do you think you would keep your job? After a time it becomes apparent that they are less concerned with maintaining secrecy for the good of the nation and more concerned with covering their own ass.

No, I don't fully trust the government. It has grown into a convoluted behemoth where the will of the people is not only ignored but, in fact, confounded by not letting the people know what is going on in the first place. The people in the government are humans and just as susceptible to corruption as any other human in a position of power. By making that power almost absolute by giving them the authority to decide what to disclose and what to keep top secret we are not only giving permission for corruption and waste but also permission to cover it up. This becomes even worse when you give them permission to arrest, try and even execute anyone who dares expose their secrets. If our government were more open and 'transparent' (wasn't that the buzzword that was tossed around a couple of years ago?) with us then maybe it would hold more impact and be more trustworthy when they say, "No, this really does need to be secret." If there weren't thousands - even millions - of documents to expose, there would really be nothing for a group like Wikileaks to do in the first place.

[Raoul]

JAB, I appreciate your post. I'm rather conflicted about Wikileaks. I do think our government has too many "secrets" that they keep from us. Things that coverup inaction, fraud, and waste.

However, any outing of information that puts our military and citizens in harms way is at best questionable.

However, have you ever gone into a property and turned on a light and watched cockroaches scurry to hide?

[mikegideon]

I didn't realize it was okay because it's been done

before.

I've heard Assange was a stooge funded by Soros

to do this sort of thing. I think it was Beck who said

that. I won't argue about whether he is a credible

news agency because evidently news can be okay

if it's from the back of a dog food can in the trash

can.

Yep, the news is out and all that can be done is

damage control, if need be. If there are any state

secrets given out, Assange needs to be hunted

down. I imagine he was warned and I would

consider him an enemy of the state.

Maybe we will learn something from this and guard

our secrets better. Maybe not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Beck had to be the one that said it, since the whole Soros thing is a big part of his psychosis.

[trblmkr13]

One of the Groups Soro's funds (OSI) funds Wiki Leaks

Edited December 1, 2010 by trblmkr13
Wrong Acronym

[Raoul]

One of the Groups Soro's funds (IOS) funds Wiki Leaks

Link please.

[mikegideon]

Link please.

www.glenbeck.

[trblmkr13]

Glenn Beck - Current Events & Politics - Glenn Beck: WikiLeaks Questions about 10 minutes in but the whole video is good

[mikegideon]

Tole ya

[Raoul]

O my. Not quite what I was hoping for.