Haven't had one of these in a while, so what would you do in a real SHTF scenario?

[mav]

I was reading the thread on the movie, "The Road" and I was thinking what would you do if there was a complete breakdown of society.

Scenario: Federal and state governments have collapsed. All of the prisons are empty. There are no utilities, and all social services have ceased etc... Since most of the shops have been looted and there is no means of exchange outside of bartering, businesses have closed. We are talking about pandemonium on a biblical scale.

Lets say you are an avid reader of TGO and you have prepared for such a scenario. You have stocked up on enough water, MREs, etc... to last a year. Do you fortify your position and try to protect what you have stockpiled or do you pack up what you can and head for the mountains or the deep backwoods? Remember, most people have not prepared like you have and any word that might get out that you are sitting on a stockpile then you become a target for criminals even neighbors. How would you protect what you have? Would you interact with your neighbors?

If you decide to leave, do you try to contact local friends and family to get them to go with you, or will it be just you and your household? Will you avoid other people after your exodus, or try to find like-minded individuals and form a commune until all the s**t is over? Are you a sole survivor or do you believe strength in numbers?

What type of weapons do you take with you? Handgun, rifle, shotgun, bow? How much ammo do you take? How much food and water (5 gallons of water is roughly 40 lbs.)?Keep in mind that when you run out of gas there is no more. You will be walking, so you can't load up 500 lbs of gear and expect to make it. Will you pack a tent or do you plan on making your own shelter?

I know the "what-if" scenarios are sort of ridiculous, but it has been a slow posting day and I find it interesting and enjoyable to read people's responses.

[mikegideon]

I have no idea. It won't happen overnight, so you won't know your options until it unfolds. Will most likely head for family in a less populated area. I'll have ALL my guns and ammo with me.

[oldogy]

Hunker down in place. Not the perfect place to defend but far better than most. Harder to find than most, too. If you're moving, you're a target.

oldogy

[Garufa]

Read "One Second After" then you'll realize just how hopeless we are.

[Mike.357]

it will be hopeless and blind luck will have as much to do with survival as preparation will. Granted preparation will buy time and give a few more option.

One Second After is a real eye opener.

Think about what you will do if you get a simple toothache from a lost filling. What if you need blood pressure meds? What is your wife going to do for feminine hygene? Heck what are any of us going to do for toilet paper?

Lots of people think heading for the woods or mountains will solve things. Them that live there are not going to take kindly to you and yours showing up there.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

With two small children, I'm staying put. I'd rather defend a fixed position than a mobile one any day.

[Guest Revelator]

If you're talking full-scale whammy-disaster scenario, you need to be living full-time in a sparsely populated area, or at least have the means to get there real quick. Stocking up on lots of food and guns while living in the suburbs is somewhat pointless--if, again, you're preparing for the absolute worst. You need a self-sustaining homestead out in the middle of nowhere, with plentiful water and good crop growing weather. You probably need a group of friends/family to divide the never-ending chores of off-grid living. Gardening, hunting, cleaning, security, fixing stuff when it breaks...the list never ends, as Mike notes. Fortunately, the chances of something on this scale happening are extremely rare. I thought OSA was very entertaining but was more fiction than truth. Nobody really knows what an EMP would do. I doubt it'll take out every single electronic device in the Continental US, as the book posits.

[Guest bkelm18]

I figure if the shiz really goes down. I'm not long for this world. I'll do what I can. I can bug out to the hills pretty quick but beyond that it'll be day by day.

[Oh Shoot]

I figure that just a 1930's style financial crash likely means the loss of millions of lives over a few years, this time around. How many, who knows.

Certainly, a total meltdown where public services were non-existent would mean the loss of at least half the population over a few years' time.

Besides violence and starvation, sanitation breakdown alone would unleash the Biblical baddies, typhoid, cholera, typhus, etc. among densely packed populations, though they wouldn't be dense for long.

- OS

[mav]

Read "One Second After" then you'll realize just how hopeless we are.

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered a copy.

[7dogguy]

I'd go with hunker down in place for reasons as stated above. If/when the BIG SHTF event happens, though, who the heck knows? I also wonder, depending on the event, if I would want to "survive" - big difference in living and surviving;surving long term in the environment as shown in films (scorched earth, no viable flora or fauna, etc) might not be worth the effort as it would not lead to living again - only delaying death. And I am not one to thrown in the towel, but I do think about it when watching films or reading stories about such things.

[mikegideon]

If you're talking full-scale whammy-disaster scenario, you need to be living full-time in a sparsely populated area, or at least have the means to get there real quick. Stocking up on lots of food and guns while living in the suburbs is somewhat pointless--if, again, you're preparing for the absolute worst. You need a self-sustaining homestead out in the middle of nowhere, with plentiful water and good crop growing weather. You probably need a group of friends/family to divide the never-ending chores of off-grid living. Gardening, hunting, cleaning, security, fixing stuff when it breaks...the list never ends, as Mike notes. Fortunately, the chances of something on this scale happening are extremely rare. I thought OSA was very entertaining but was more fiction than truth. Nobody really knows what an EMP would do. I doubt it'll take out every single electronic device in the Continental US, as the book posits.

It will destroy a lot of semiconductors. There are variables, but no real mysteries. The government has facilities that are designed for EMP immunity. A lot of stuff, like generators will fare better than computers. It will be similar to a lightening strike, only much more widespread. The pulse will induce a voltage of x for Y length of a conductor, which is how an antenna works. The shorter the "antenna", the smaller the voltage.

[Erik88]

this is a hard question. My first reaction would be to get the hell out of dodge and head for the mountains. But the more I think about it, I'm not sure. Everyone and their brother would probably have the same idea, therefore the mtns are no longer as valuable.

Either way I'm probably screwed, I don't know how to hunt, only been camping once, and my only long gun is a 10/22. I would hope a a fellow TGOer would take me in!!

But then you have the situation of "family". My parents are divorced, my dad knows how to shoot/hike/camp. My mom and stepdad do not. How would I decide who to go with? After watching The Living Dead I've been asking myself these questions.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Honestly, in a true SHTF, where access to medication is cut off, I am toast. My life expectancy would be months, maximum...

So... I hope not for a true SHTF. But, I would do somethings for fun before I keeled over...

Erik, get yourself an inexpensive long gun in a well established caliber (and therefore more readily available ammo for barter) One with good iron sights and a possible scope... I doubt you will have need of a scope in a real SHTF situation, as most fighting will easily be within line of sight...

I suggest something like a Marlin 30-30 as lever actions are inexpensive and have a higher fire rate than a bolt action (in general.)

Sounds like your "family" situation would force your biological parents to make nice, and accept the new member of the group... Stranger things can happen...

Edited November 30, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Moped]

I think we would have a bit of notice. An event that big is not going to happen overnight. I have a large part of my family that lives in one area. Once it looks like the end is near, I'd start moving supplies out to their places and then move my family. I'd leave nothing here. Strip it bare. I'd rent a truck if necessary. I'd want to be in place before the final ca-lapse. I'd also clean out my savings and start buying up food and whatever other resources that are available for long term survival. I'd max out my charge cards too. If it's that big an event, who cares.

Again, I think we'd have some sort of notice regardless of the event, if it were going to ca-lapse all of society.

[jcj]

Thanks for the recommendation. I just ordered a copy.

+1 on One Second After. I got it as an audio book from Audible based on some TGO reviews. Great book.

[shortround]

I agree that nobody really knows what an EMP would do, and One Second After probably overstates it. It is an absolute worst-case scenario. But I think it was written that way intentionally, to make it easier to see the devastation that would result. Anyone interested in EMP should read "Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the U.S. from EMP Attack – Critical National Infrastructures" (Google it). They point to SCADA systems as the biggest vulnerability, and it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see how widespread failure of the computers controlling our electrical, water, etc. could cause a total meltdown. Just because cars will still work won't matter when everyone runs out of gas and the refineries are all toast because their systems malfunctioned and they burnt to the ground. And don't forget that an EMP is not all we need to be concerned about - a Carrington Event could have much the same result. :D

[creeky]

Read "One Second After" then you'll realize just how hopeless we are.

This was one of the most unnerving books I had ever read. It just about made me depressed for a week after reading it.

Probably the most gut wrenching thing I have ever read... I knew what was coming, but just kept hoping against hope that

it wouldn't. Then it did. It's bothered me ever since.

Needless to say... I am very anal about having extra insulin and supplies on hand now. More so than ever.

But no matter how much I was to get... it's still not enough. I pray we never encounter such a thing in my life time.

EMP's are now the "thing" that goes bump in the night for me.

[shortround]

This was one of the most unnerving books I had ever read. It just about made me depressed for a week after reading it.

Probably the most gut wrenching thing I have ever read... I knew what was coming, but just kept hoping against hope that

it wouldn't. Then it did. It's bothered me ever since.

Needless to say... I am very anal about having extra insulin and supplies on hand now. More so than ever.

But no matter how much I was to get... it's still not enough. I pray we never encounter such a thing in my life time.

EMP's are now the "thing" that goes bump in the night for me.

Of course the author had to make the sweet little daughter the one that gets it. As a dad of 4 girls, that is painful, even though I know the author is doing it just get an emotional response.

Does freezing really destroy insulin?

[creeky]

Of course the author had to make the sweet little daughter the one that gets it. Does freezing really destroy insulin?

Yes... and no... it mainly effects it's effectiveness. I would hate to try and manage dosage ratios with insulin that is getting weak.

• Insulin maximum storage temps refrigerated are 36-46ºF

• Insulin storage at Room Temperature is 59-86ºF (And that is basically for a month, after that it starts to lose effectiveness.)

My Son is Type I, (Insulin Dependent) and was the same age as the girl in the book. To make matters extra creepy I went ona vacation to Western NC to see family while reading it and wasn't but an hour and a half away from where it was set inthe book. want a little EXTRA creepy? We were caught in Bonaroo traffic and saw miles of cars on the side of the road,some being pushed, people walking with gas cans. Reminded me about the scene of the interstate in the book LOL!

My old "TGO" review of the book can be found HERE...

Edited December 7, 2010 by creeky

[shortround]

Good review. I regret that I missed the original discussion.

I grew up just across the mountain from Asheville. I've been to Black Mountain quite a few times. Really drives it home when you are familiar with all the locales in the story.

[mav]

Based upon Garufa's recommendation, I ordered a copy. I read it this past Sunday. Good book. One thing that did stand out to me was they would take in chemists out of the long line of refugees.

[gregintenn]

Lets say you are an avid reader of TGO and you have prepared for such a scenario. You have stocked up on enough water, MREs, etc... to last a year. Do you fortify your position and try to protect what you have stockpiled or do you pack up what you can and head for the mountains or the deep backwoods?

Those of us who live in the mountains and deep backwoods know them; know where we are, and to be honest, an intruder wouldn't stand much of a chance competing with the locals for available resources. We were born and raised here, and you come in from the concrete jungle with a backpack and a gun? Have you seen the movie "Deliverance"?

[mav]

I hope you aren't threatening to make me squeal like a pig or think I have a purty mouth.

[gregintenn]

No, not at all. I just think it odd that every time this subject comes up, everybody states how they're going to go to an unfamiliar place and live off the land. I think most people watch way too many movies. It isn't logical.