Tom Delay guilty of money laundering

[Guest HvyMtl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/25/us/politics/25delay.html?_r=1

Seems circumventing state law to get more campaign contributions from corporations is a no-no.

Shows both parties are corrupt, and need a deep cleansing.

[Garufa]

Five years after idictment.

Too bad we'll never hear the real dirt behind Dubya's crew.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Yeah. I agree, 5 years too long. Makes one wonder what else they missed... But, at least, some justice? served, if too little, too late...

[Guest mosinon]

Party before everything came back to bite him I suppose.

[leroy]

I'll give y'all a little bit to think about. My take on all this is that it is, in deed, a political reprisal; but ill temper all of what i have to say with a caveat that most all long-time politicians get get a bit "ratty" and corrupt; and that works on both sides of the aisle.

Several years ago, the state of tennessee had a gubernatorial candidate by the name of Lamar Alexander who founded his considerable political career running against the "crooked" policies of a sitting Democrat governor by the name of Ray Blanton. Alexander was well connected with polititians himself and was a pretty formidable power in east tennessee politics ----- an "insider" himself, similar to those he ralled against. His opponent was a powerful east tennessee businessman named Jake Butcher. Alexander won the election for governor in 1978, and immeditately instituted a "scorched earth" policy thru state prosecutions against his political opponents . He purged the state of tennessee of "fatcat" democrats who had backed Butcher in the gubernatorial election. He used the full power of the state of tennessee and influence with the feds to criminally prosecute many of them. Make no mistake; there are enough laws on the books so it's easy to find one that public men have broken (...most of them intentionally...). Alexander's actions decimated the large demorat donors in the middle and west areas of tennessee; while leaving unscathed those who were doing the same thing for the republicans.

I put Delay's conviction in the same catagory as those against the old time democrats right here in tennessee and the prosecution of "Scooter" Libby. It just shows how powerful some of the political forces are in this country when you accompany it with the "jihadism" that some politically motivated folks feel in the legal and prosecutorial fraternity (...who, by the way, are all political operatives..). In my view; that's the most dangerous thing out there. There could be a day when these "jhadist" take a look at little guys (....like gunowners and hunters for example...).

The moral of this little dissertation; don't be to happy or smug about the "alleged triumph of justice" in the case of Tom Delay by the texas court system. I'ts most likely politically motivated and far from just. Remember, with the right cricumstances it can come to a location near you.

Food for thought.

Leroy

Edited November 25, 2010 by leroy
spelling!!! and grammar!!!

[Raoul]

Well said Leroy.

Seems to me that party at all cost only seems to cost those of us paying the bills.

[Smith]

Keep in mind that at the time, donations were allowed to made in the manner he took them. The law changed after the fact and then they decided to press charges after the law changed when Delay was at the height of his power in the House. Not saying what he did was good, but there was a lot of politics in this trial.

[Oh Shoot]

Keep in mind that at the time, donations were allowed to made in the manner he took them. The law changed after the fact and then they decided to press charges after the law changed when Delay was at the height of his power in the House. Not saying what he did was good, but there was a lot of politics in this trial.

Yeah, and the main politics were that a federal probe was done and no federal charges were placed, so the fix was in on that level (I mean, justice was served).

But Texas didn't cop out and proceeded with state charges.

No way a man gets tried for breaking a law when it was legal in this country anymore, not even in Podunk, MS. And certainly not with the high powered lawyer power that Delay had.

- OS

[Smith]

Yeah, and the main politics were that a federal probe was done and no federal charges were placed, so the fix was in on that level (I mean, justice was served).

But Texas didn't cop out and proceeded with state charges.

No way a man gets tried for breaking a law when it was legal in this country anymore, not even in Podunk, MS. And certainly not with the high powered lawyer power that Delay had.

- OS

Now granted I haven't followed this lately, but the original charges were not in law at the time he was accused and the original prosecutor was as corrupt as any person he had prosecuted. That being said, there could have been some new charges filed but I'm pretty sure it was the same ones.

Don't let your political cynicism cloud your eyes to the facts.

[leroy]

Lest we dare to think that all this is not politically motivated; check these two links out:

The first is the Ronnie Earl entry: Ronnie Earle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The present prosecuting attorney in Travis county (....a heavily Demorat county...) is Ms Rosemary Lehmberg.

My guess is that the jury pool is heavily demorat too; what da ya think?

...The Travis County District Attorney's office investigates and prosecutes crimes related to the operation of the Texas state government. Elected as a Democrat in the city of Austin, which is uncommon among Texas cities for its traditional support of the Democratic Party. He was, and his successor now is, the only Democrat with statewide prosecutorial authority.

In late 2007, Earle announced that he would not seek reelection to his post. His departure precipitated a race to fill his seat. Four Democrats, all employees of his office, ran for the seat. In the primary election held on March 4, 2008, no candidate received 50 percent of the vote. A runoff election was held between the top two finishers, and Rosemary Lehmberg – who Earle had endorsed – won handily. She faced no Republican opponent in the general election. She took office in January 2009 and is the first woman district attorney in Travis County history.[citation needed]

Check this out: Tom DeLay's trial will be in Travis County, Texas - CNN

August 25, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff

Former U.S. House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, accused of money laundering, will get a fair trial in Austin, a Texas judge ruled Wednesday.

Senior Judge Pat Priest's ruling did not please DeLay's attorney, who said "heavily Democratic" Travis County has a "strong anti-Tom DeLay feeling."

The Travis County prosecutor has charged DeLay with illegally funneling corporate campaign contributions.

"He's obviously very thoughtful, listened to the evidence and ruled from his heart," District Attorney Rosemary Lehmberg said of Priest's ruling.

Right here is what the demorats are really going after Delay for:

...Prosecutors claim the money helped Republicans take control of the Texas House. That enabled the GOP majority to push through a Delay-engineered congressional redistricting plan that sent more Texas Republicans to Congress in 2004 — and strengthened DeLay's political power. ....

Link here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101124/ap_on_re_us/us_delay_trial_32

Food for thought.

Leroy

Edited November 25, 2010 by leroy

[Oh Shoot]

Lest we dare to think that all this is not politically motivated;..

Look, most of the pols that have been on the hill for more than a couple terms should be in prison, and more than a few should be hanged for treason.

The politically motivated tendency is to NOT charge them with anything.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Now granted I haven't followed this lately, but the original charges were not in law at the time he was accused and the original prosecutor was as corrupt as any person he had prosecuted. That being said, there could have been some new charges filed but I'm pretty sure it was the same ones.

Don't let your political cynicism cloud your eyes to the facts.

At least one charge originally filed in 2005 was later dropped, perhaps that's the one to which you refer.

I see no reference where Delay and Co. has even claimed the money laundering/conspiracy was legal at the time he did it, just claimed it didn't happen the way it is alleged.

- OS

[leroy]

...Look, most of the pols that have been on the hill for more than a couple terms should be in prison, and more than a few should be hanged for treason.

The politically motivated tendency is to NOT charge them with anything.

- OS

Dont entirely disagree with the first sentence. Do disagree with the second. I'm not taking up for any of them (...especially the long timers...); i'm simply pointing out what i think is going on and amassing a pretty good pile of evidence to substantiate it. I would be the last to confer any "sainthood" on any politico that is a long time member of any political body; but i believe there are some folks out there that are NOT ELECTED or elected at the state and local level in the prosecutorial and judicial ranks that are running wild; and i see that as a very bad thing --- much worse than the legislative mischief; because it can be directed at anyone they dont agree with (...as the great Elwood Blues said; "you, me --them..") using police power.

Remember this little caveat:

....My take on all this is that it is, in deed, a political reprisal; but ill temper all of what i have to say with a caveat that most all long-time politicians get get a bit "ratty" and corrupt; and that works on both sides of the aisle. ...

There is, indeed, a "political class" that seeks as it's duty the ruling of the "unwashed multitudes" (...like us...). The problem is that politics has become a "scorched earth" business and there are politicos that will use every tool in their toolbox to go after their oponents, including criminal prosecutions; and that is a relatively new thing. The "scorched earth" policy is a bad one in my view. It smacks of the old soviet "show trials" and hurts some folks who are clearly innocent.

Leroy

[Guest HvyMtl]

My thought is this: Delay broke the law, and did not get away with it.

Amazing how some here will defend a criminal Republican, and be vile against Democrats, even though they have not broken the law. I find this hypocritical. You are either against corruption, no matter the party affiliation, or your opinion will allow additional crimes...

In my eyes, Delay, plus the Waters and Rangle, point to much worse issues than defending your chosen party. Points to crooks running our national government. Far more dangerous... no matter the party affiliation.

Hey Tea Party, how about being independent, instead of letting the GOP control you?

[Oh Shoot]

....

Hey Tea Party, how about being independent, instead of letting the GOP control you?

The Tea Party will not survive the GOP assimilation over time.

At best, it can only bump it somewhat to the right, and that likely a temporary trend.

The "good guy/bad guy" two party tyranny will continue, at least until a catastrophic period occurs.

- OS

[Guest HvyMtl]

Sadly, OS, I fear you are correct.

I do wish the two present parties would be challenged before ending this nation... But, I feel you are correct...

[leroy]

HvyMtl:_____________

I believe this is "over the top" rhetoric:

...I find this hypocritical. You are either against corruption, no matter the party affiliation, or your opinion will allow additional crimes...

I dont remember being "for corruption"; I doubt that you can find anyone here that is. You seem to be confusing "another view" with blind partisanism; it aint the same thing. You might want to take a baby aspirin and tone the rhetoric down a bit; this aint a courtroom.

I figure my point is a valid one. In my view, folks need to be worried about these "scorched earth" prosecutions far more than the "corruption" they purport to clean up. It is the most heinous "abuse of political power" because it uses the power of the court to punish enemies. I'm not nearly enamored of those who practice law as some of others are here. I think "legal jihadists" are far more dangerous than the politicos you seem to be so contemptuous of.

While we are having this frank little discussion; I would remind you that all court offficers are, in fact, political operatives. I challenge you to find one that isn't. The sad fact is that many of these "legal political operatives" are appointed; not duly elected by popular vote. If ya start assigning "relative lowness and rattiness" to these guys; my assessment is that they are a notch or two below the politicos.

Piling on Delay is ok. Putting words in my mouth by innuendo and verbal gymnastics aint ok.

Leroy

[Smith]

My thought is this: Delay broke the law, and did not get away with it.

Amazing how some here will defend a criminal Republican, and be vile against Democrats, even though they have not broken the law. I find this hypocritical. You are either against corruption, no matter the party affiliation, or your opinion will allow additional crimes...

In my eyes, Delay, plus the Waters and Rangle, point to much worse issues than defending your chosen party. Points to crooks running our national government. Far more dangerous... no matter the party affiliation.

Hey Tea Party, how about being independent, instead of letting the GOP control you?

I think it is very easy to just take the headlines are run with it but it is never that easy or simple. I'm against any corruption but I'm not going to let my emotions and prejudices interfere with my rational ability to look at the details before shooting the messenger. Kind like the "Darwin" thread where folks made fun of the dead kid only to find out there might be more to the story. Political cynicism is healthy ONLY if it is tempered with restraint absent emotionalism. Other wise we will end up with another French Revolution. Not good.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok. My bad if I offended.

One question, you knew of Alexander's abuse of power, going after his political opponents when he was Governor. Did you still vote for him when he ran for Senate?

And yes, there are those who will defend Delay, due to having an ® behind his name... as those types of supporters will claim him framed and not guilty. But if he was a member of the other party, yes, they would call for his head... And I do think this does occur. Even in this forum. (Did happen in the Rangle case, they voted him right back in, in spite of the allegations, now proven true...)

And yes, this points to the politicians in Washington believing they are above the law, no matter the party. Which is the more critical issue.

One more question, would you have been as harsh on Rangle, had he been Republican?

[Smith]

Ok. My bad if I offended.

One question, you knew of Alexander's abuse of power, going after his political opponents when he was Governor. Did you still vote for him when he ran for Senate?

And yes, there are those who will defend Delay, due to having an ® behind his name... as those types of supporters will claim him framed and not guilty. But if he was a member of the other party, yes, they would call for his head... And I do think this does occur. Even in this forum. (Did happen in the Rangle case, they voted him right back in, in spite of the allegations, now proven true...)

And yes, this points to the politicians in Washington believing they are above the law, no matter the party. Which is the more critical issue.

One more question, would you have been as harsh on Rangle, had he been Republican?

Wow! A lot of broad assumptions there.

The topic was Tom Delay and in regard to Tom delay the charges and circumstance of the trial are suspect at best. Funny how you mock those that would dare defend a "corrupt" politician while failing to realize it is corrupt politicians you are defending in order to uphold that view.

[Guest 1010011010]

Potential for a 99 year sentence. How much you willing to bet he doesn't spend a day in jail?

[Guest mosinon]

The problem is that politics has become a "scorched earth" business and there are politicos that will use every tool in their toolbox to go after their oponents, including criminal prosecutions; and that is a relatively new thing. The "scorched earth" policy is a bad one in my view. It smacks of the old soviet "show trials" and hurts some folks who are clearly innocent.

Leroy

I don't think it is a recent thing, I suspect it is a constant thing. I can thinks of plenty of examples off the top of my head of it happening in the US.

If you've got the power you're going to abuse it, we've seen it time and time again.

And, if you're a politician, the only thing worse than the opposing party is a legit challenger from outside the two parties.

[leroy]

Glad to answer these:

...One question, you knew of Alexander's abuse of power, going after his political opponents when he was Governor. Did you still vote for him when he ran for Senate?

This happened in 2002. Campaigned against Alexander here in ET; supported Bryant. Bryant is a good guy. Check this out: Ed Bryant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bryant wasn't as politically connected as Alexander (...nor Corker...). In my opinion; he is a much better man than both of them. Sadly, he simply didnt have the resources and name recognition the other two did. Bob Clement ran against Alexander that year. I voted against Clement. That, by the way, was a vote for the "lesser of two evils"; a common practice for lots of folks in elections who see voting as a clear responsibility.

RE:

....One more question, would you have been as harsh on Rangle, had he been Republican? ....

Didn't vote for Rangle, and dont like him. He is, in my view, a great picture of all that's wrong with the Demorat party, politics in general, and lots of things above the Mason-Dixon Line. I could care less if they barbecue him. Rangle was ratty enough that his own party threw him under the bus. If that sorry bunch of trash thought he had done bad things; it's a slam dunk that he did. And yeah; i was extremely hard on him. I made a value judgement, and thought the derision was well warranted. By the way, Rangle aint a Republican.

By the way, after thinking a bit, i think Mosinon is exactly right in all his points. The "political insiders" in both parties have went after some of the Tea Party folks with a vengence. My problem is that the first real "scorched earth" politicing i ever saw happened in Tennessee in 1978.

Leroy

Edited November 27, 2010 by leroy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ok. My bad if I offended.

One question, you knew of Alexander's abuse of power, going after his political opponents when he was Governor. Did you still vote for him when he ran for Senate?

And yes, there are those who will defend Delay, due to having an ® behind his name... as those types of supporters will claim him framed and not guilty. But if he was a member of the other party, yes, they would call for his head... And I do think this does occur. Even in this forum. (Did happen in the Rangle case, they voted him right back in, in spite of the allegations, now proven true...)

And yes, this points to the politicians in Washington believing they are above the law, no matter the party. Which is the more critical issue.

One more question, would you have been as harsh on Rangle, had he been Republican?

How much does it take for you to understand what happened last year alone? "Health care bill".

How much arm twisting and handouts was done to make the "D's" pass that pile of crap?

Where did all that money in the "Stimulus bill" go? How are you going to react if the Republican House

has hearings on that and finds some wrongdoing? What happens if there are a few, still in the swamp,

that get in trouble because Nancy didn't drain it, and they get prosecuted? I'll stick with the "R's".

I'll be glad to vote for the "R's" limited amount of corruption than let the "D's" take over and make

us into NAZI Germany. Count up all the scandals and corruption and see which side has the most. The

list isn't good on either side, but I'll bet the "D's" list is a bit longer. Really, I guess you could tailor that

list any way you wish and come up all skewed either way. Take a stab at it, but if you limit yourself to

a major media outlet, like CBS or NYT, we've nothing to talk about.

Your cutie pie comment about the Tea Party is so far from the truth. They are the ones trying to purge

old, less consevative Republicans from the party. I don't see any of that from the other side. The

Democrats are getting down to their core progressive elements. Most of the losers on the Democrat

side were the ones they should have kept. They are going farther to the left. That's the group with

the real corruption. If you wish the Tea Party to do something different, join them instead of deriding

them. They are people like you and I. They want their country back. You haven't even seen any of

them in action, yet.

This business with Delay still isn't settled. There will be appeals as there should be.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Hmm. Would you believe some of the stimulus bill money went to the tax payers in a TAX CUT? Would you believe the stimulus package was a way to keep state budgets in check, preventing a major layoff of Police, Firemen, EMT, and teachers? Now this safety net is gone for the states, do you think they will keep those people on payroll? The Stimulus Package was poorly written, and poorly implemented, but there was a few key things which prevented a depression. But, now gone, I see a double dip recession quite possible... No, the Dems cannot prevent the inevitable. Neither will the GOP.

My original point in posting, Mosinon stated well. My original point was both parties' politicians in Washington are beyond corrupt, and it is a critical issue which needs addressing.

Leroy's statement about Alexander's abuse of power made me ask the question, if you knew of his abuse of power, did you vote for him? Point is, putting a person in office, who is known to be a power abuser adds to the problem...

And no, the Dems cannot, by default, make this into Nazi Germany, considering Nazi Germany was initiated by tyrannical leaning politics. Dems, in the overtly extreme, would make us socialistic and communistic... You forget Nazi Germany outlawed things Dems hold too close to their power base, such as Labor Unions. Hilter allowed the economy to stay in a profit driven aspect, instead of government controlled. Nazi Germany was extremely PRO-military and used its military might to impose its "diplomatic" will, something very foreign to the Dems. Nazis were Pro-Nation -protect the Fatherland, the Dems are more apologetic for their nation. Dems are for homosexual rights, Nazi Germany would put them, and other "lessors," to death. I believe you think Nazi Germany was socialist, as the name of their party had "socialist" in it. Far from reality. I suggest reading the platform of the Nazi Party, where they are against the expansion of Liberalism, and Bureaucracy... Nazism was a knee jerk reaction to the Communists. Things very against Dems in style... Nazi Party Platform of 1920:

So, please stop stating that the Dems and Obama are Nazis and Hitler, it makes you look ignorant of history. Look towards more socialistic regimes, as the Dems are closer to those.

My "cutie pie" comment on the Tea Party, as you stated, was a voice of frustration with them. They lost a lot of validity and influence by allowing core GOP players to keep them under leash...

And claiming, "Well, we are less corrupt than they, cause more of them are known," is a bit self serving. No. BOTH parties at the Federal Level (and apparently on all levels, as seen by what Leroy discussed) are very corrupt. The Tea Party was created, in part, due to the need of "vote the scoundrels out..." Let us hope they stay true to that, but as for now, they seem to be controlled by the insiders...

Leroy, after rereading my previous post, it is easily misconstrued as a personal hit. My apologies, far from the intent. Intent is to make others think, not attack.

Edited November 27, 2010 by HvyMtl