Anyone Carrying a .380 Pocket Pistol Might Find this interesting

[MikePapa1]

BBTI - 380 Auto

New tests of popular defense ammunition.

[daddyo]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything mentioned about penetration.

[MikePapa1]

It doesn't as far as I can see but rather focuses on muzzle velocity. I was interested in the MV measured from my particular pistol, the Sig P238.

[JReedEsq]

Uh Oh; .380 and penetration in the same thread. I hope this doesn't result in name calling....

Edited November 25, 2010 by JReedEsq

[chuck]

cool info thanks

[DAdams]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

You may find the information interesting.

This is a great ballistic website for all calibers.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/

Edited November 26, 2010 by DAdams

[East_TN_Patriot]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

You may find the information interesting.

This is a great ballistic website for all calibers.

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

That link has some excellent info. I was pleased with the Speer Gold Dot performance (I carry it in all of my handguns regardless of caliber). I think 10" of penetration and the 2 inch wound cavity is more than enough to give someone a bad day.

Here's another site that I just found:

http://www.frfrogspad.com/terminal.htm

Edited November 26, 2010 by East_TN_Patriot

[daddyo]

That link has some excellent info. I was pleased with the Speer Gold Dot performance (I carry it in all of my handguns regardless of caliber). I think 10" of penetration and the 2 inch wound cavity is more than enough to give someone a bad day.

Here's another site that I just found:

Terminal Ballistics

From the article:

1) There ain't no magic bullets!

2) Only center hits count

3) Make the biggest diameter hole you can to let blood out and air in.

4) Small bullets may expand, but big bullets never shrink.

5) Make the deepest hole you can to insure that vital organs and nerve centers can be reached and

destroyed from all impact angles.

6) "Service" your threat until it is no longer a threat.

7) No small arm can guarantee 100% instant incapacitation of a determined adversary--man or beast.

8) Don't believe manufacturer's claims.

9) Inconsequential increments are meaningless.

10) Most gun writers are pathological liars.

[DAdams]

I have been satisfied with my personal research and range experience/operational positives utilizing Speer Gold Dot. I have the "short barrel" version for J Frames in .38 spl plus P 135 gr. I have some SB .357 Magnum for a J Frame and a 3 inch 686. My Kahr PM9 is loaded with Speer also.

I was surprised at the relative poor performance of the Remington GS 102 grain. I have my truck gun a BERSA Thunder stoked with 11 rounds in an extended magazine, I may have to switch over to the Speer in that also.

"Service" your threat until it is no longer a threat.

[MphsTiger1981]

From the article:

1) There ain't no magic bullets!

2) Only center hits count

3) Make the biggest diameter hole you can to let blood out and air in.

4) Small bullets may expand, but big bullets never shrink.

5) Make the deepest hole you can to insure that vital organs and nerve centers can be reached and

destroyed from all impact angles.

6) "Service" your threat until it is no longer a threat.

7) No small arm can guarantee 100% instant incapacitation of a determined adversary--man or beast.

8) Don't believe manufacturer's claims.

9) Inconsequential increments are meaningless.

10) Most gun writers are pathological liars.

Interesting links. This reminds me of a friend who is a paramedic trainer. Their favorite saying on the "Gut Wagon" is "air goes in and out. Blood goes round and round. Any deviation is fatal."

[LngRngShtr]

for those of them that insist on small bullets,..in a .380 platform bottleneck it....

here's the 32 NAA

North American Arms

I will stick with my .40 or .45 thanks...

[JAB]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

You may find the information interesting.

This is a great ballistic website for all calibers.

Brass Fetcher Ballistic Testing

When I carry a .380, it is a P3AT - the same model they used in those tests. I carry Hydra-Shoks because that is the first 'premium' .380 ammo I was able to find in a brick-and-mortar store in this area a few years back. I continue to carry it because I know it feeds and functions in my pistol - which IMO is even more important than caliber, shot placement or penetration as you can't achieve any of those things if the gun/ammo combo doesn't go 'bang'. That isn't to say another type of premium ammo might not feed and function just as well but I have already sent enough HS down the barrel to be confident in it and see no reason to spend the cash to test another kind. If the HS didn't perform well in the tests I have found I would likely feel differently but penetrating to 12 inches with at least some expansion (per the Brassfetcher tests) sounds like it fits the bill, to me.

I usually prefer to carry a .357 snub or a Ruger P95 as my primary. Lately, the snub has been loaded with PDX1 .38+p and the Ruger has been loaded with PDX1 9mm +P but I don't feel unarmed with the P3AT as primary, either. I guess that no .380 round is likely to stop an angry, male silverback gorilla on crack. Luckily, attacks by chemically altered simians aren't too common where I live and I seriously doubt the average scumbag is going to take time out from bleeding to be offended by having been shot with something less than a .45.

Edited November 29, 2010 by JAB

[DavidD]

From the article:

1) There ain't no magic bullets!

2) Only center hits count

3) Make the biggest diameter hole you can to let blood out and air in.

4) Small bullets may expand, but big bullets never shrink.

5) Make the deepest hole you can to insure that vital organs and nerve centers can be reached and

destroyed from all impact angles.

6) "Service" your threat until it is no longer a threat.

7) No small arm can guarantee 100% instant incapacitation of a determined adversary--man or beast.

8) Don't believe manufacturer's claims.

9) Inconsequential increments are meaningless.

10) Most gun writers are pathological liars.

There you have it folks, the TGO 10 Commandments of "which gun/caliber should I choose".......

[gregintenn]

Why not carry FMJ ammo? It will feed reliably, and will penetrate.

[adam42]

Thanks for the link, good information.

[hkusp40cal]

I am sure this site has been posted before but it is one of the best imo for unbiased info on round penetration.

The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

As the tag line on the site says "The Box O' Truth - What you always wanted to know... But were unable to test yourself!"

There is only one way to know how much a certain round penetrates. You must shoot it into a medium and see for a fact.

[Patton]

Why not carry FMJ ammo? It will feed reliably, and will penetrate.

Many people will and that is one thing I like about a 380 is that it will be less likely to over penetrate. Yes a big hole bleeds out more but so does two holes. I just hope theres no one on the other side.

[daddyo]

Many people will and that is one thing I like about a 380 is that it will be less likely to over penetrate. Yes a big hole bleeds out more but so does two holes. I just hope theres no one on the other side.

Highly doubtful that a .380 round of any kind is going to pass all the way through any human target.

[Guest bluecanary25]

nice info.

I would be nervous if the flashy end of a handgun was pointed at me, regardless of caliber.

[daddyo]

nice info.

I would be nervous if the flashy end of a handgun was pointed at me, regardless of caliber.

I don't count on the appearance of my weapon to scare an attacker off. The fact is that many violent criminals simply aren't afraid of your gun.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

I don't count on the appearance of my weapon to scare an attacker off. The fact is that many violent criminals simply aren't afraid of your gun.

I'm pretty sure by "flashy end" he meant the having the barrel pointed at him (the part the flash comes out of when fired)

Also according to the FBI out of the 2.5 million times a handgun is used in self defense 91% of the time it is never fired.

[daddyo]

I'm pretty sure by "flashy end" he meant the having the barrel pointed at him (the part the flash comes out of when fired)

Also according to the FBI out of the 2.5 million times a handgun is used in self defense 91% of the time it is never fired.

I'm aware of the statistic. That means that 9% of the time mere presentation of the weapon doesn't scare off the attacker. When it's 0% then I'll start relying on the fear factor.

[JAB]

Of the remaining 9%, I wonder how many keep coming even after a shot is fired - even from 'just' a .22LR and even if the shot misses the target. I wonder how many keep coming after being hit with anything - again, even 'just' a .22LR. I further wonder how many keep coming after being hit with a .380 (the subject of the OP) using premium SD ammo and, of those, how many keep coming after being hit multiple times with said .380 and said premium ammo - or even a .32 using ball ammo. Heck, I have to wonder how many assailants are willing to wade through six or seven rounds even from the much-maligned .25acp to continue an attack.

Sure, there are probably a few. That said, I wonder how many of those ever-so-determined attackers would be stopped by even a .45acp - or anything short of 00 Buckshot from a 12 gauge, for that matter.

Now, how likely are any of us to run into any of those attackers? Yes, there is that chance - which is why I still choose to carry something a little more powerful most of the time. I am not arguing that anyone should give up their .45, .40, .9mm or .357 in favor of a .380 or smaller. If folks can carry one of those larger caliber handguns everywhere, all the time then more power to them. What I am saying is that I don't feel 'unarmed' in the least when carrying a .380 as primary.

To me, the biggest drawback with the little .380s, etc. is not so much performance, power, etc. as it is reliability and control. Unlike my first gen. P3AT, my second gen (which Kel Tec built on my first gen frame) has been 100% reliable so far with any ammo I have tried. That said, I still think that such pistols - to include Ruger's Little Copied Pistol as well as the pocket pistols from Taurus, etc. are pushing the envelope as far as size/weight vs. caliber goes. In other words, they aren't as easy to control and fire accurately as a larger/heavier handgun, even those chambered for a more powerful cartridge in some cases. They are also probably more likely to jam than a larger handgun.

Edited December 2, 2010 by JAB

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380ACP%20ammunition%20performance%20in%20ballistic%20gelatin.pdf

You may find the information interesting.

This is a great ballistic website for all calibers.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/

Some of the newer .380 rounds showed pretty impressive performance in those tests. If a .380 was the biggest gun I could carry, I would feel pretty confident in it's abilities.

[shortround]

Good info. Thanks.