Most under rated pistol!

[Guest carbonarcher]

I have to say, we are always talking Glock this and S&W that, not to mention the XD's. I am telling you all, THEY MOST UNDERATED PISTOL COMPANY IS CZ! I know, I know, I can hear the rumblings now!

As a 1911 lover, owning, a Glock 21(customized by Robar) two Colts that were built by EGW, an XD-9 4" service, plus a Sig P220, Sig P250 compact in 9mm, S&W 686 4" in .357 a S&W bodyguard in .38 special, a ruger mark 2 slab side, and a ruger LCP, not to mention a CZ -75B.

These pistols are yes rough! They are Com-block from the CZ. They were not built to be smooth as silk, or pretty. They were built to ensure that they work!

I just picked up a CZ-P07 Duty in 3.8" barrel. It is almost identical to a Sig P250 compact. I put 400 round down it today, no clean, just a couple of drops of oil down the rails and on top of the barrel.

This thing is awesome! I would suggest that you all check one out!

[Guest Big-A]

But the one i saw was 675.00. Thats a lota money compared to 465.00 for a glock or 489.00 for an xd . AL

[Garufa]

CZ's are outstanding. See what others have to say....http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/40844-no-cz-love-whats-deal.html

But the one i saw was 675.00. Thats a lota money compared to 465.00 for a glock or 489.00 for an xd . AL

It must have been made out of gold.

[Jonsaiga]

CZ's are great guns but I dare say their clones made by Tanfoglio and imported by www.eaacorp.com as the Witness series are the greatest pistols barely known. Built every bit as well as CZ's are but cost less. I've owned a couple (recently traded a .45acp on here) and they are truly great guns. Reliability and accuracy wise... I would put them on par with Glocks and Sigs. Within the next year I will have either a Compact Witness 9mm or their new Sarsilmaz K2 pistol in 9mm.

[Guest CK1]

I totally agree that CZ's are the most underrated pistols out there. I've owned quite a few pistols but none have been better than my custom-tweaked SP-01, trigger like a top-shelf 1911, but runs drama-free like a Glock, about equal-to if not more accurate than pretty much anything out there no matter what you spend.

You could spend around $1k or so to get a decent 1911 that might run most of the time, have an ok trigger, be fairly accurate, but still very middle-of-the-road and/or average... Spend that $1k or so on a Shadow variant from CZ-Customs and you'll have one of the finest handguns available on the planet, bar none.

Edited November 23, 2010 by CK1

[bigwakes]

But the one i saw was 675.00. Thats a lota money compared to 465.00 for a glock or 489.00 for an xd . AL

$465 for a Glock? Who has that? The lowest retail I have seen is $515.

[Guest carbonarcher]

So.... at what point are we buying a pistol or purchasing the merchandiasing? I know CZ does not have the PR. machine that the big companies do, yet they also don't have the price! So the only way I can get a "Cheap" glock is if I belong to the GSSF! S&W, M&P's 700$ +! Come on! XDM's the same, there is not that much difference between the xd and xdm... You can argue all you want! It's the PR. that you are paying for! Don't even get me going on Sig! Why are they selling there"new" P250's for under 350$? All of the sudden they dropped from 600-500$ down to under 400$?

Yea, ok! Don't get me wrong, they are great pistols all of them, just over priced!

So..... we all spend our money as we wish, having all of the above, I will take a CZ, for the price!

[Guest carbonarcher]

Oh... and don't get me going on the 50.00 mags. What a joke. Sig 45.00 for a p250 mag. Walther pps 60.00, XD 9 service is down to 25.00, and all of the rest of them. I look at 1911 mags from the top manufacturers that you can get for under 30.00. I can live with that, but when they don't make there own mags and they are made in "italy", OK.....

I'm not payn'

[Guest carbonarcher]

The other question I have.... Is why did I pay full price for a Sig P250 at around 500.00$, yet I can purchase a P250 for under 350.00$, right! Have you all been in the gunshops seeing the "distributor sale?" yet if you want a conversion, to change the caliber, it cost anywhere from 375.00-395.00! HUMMMMMM?

You do the math!

[Guest Big-A]

I would love to have CZp07 duty. If i had that kinda money id drop that on it in a min. I just dont see my self paying 200 bucks more I have no doubt its an under rated gun.I wish i had my cz 75b back Thats the most missed gun outa my original collection. Divorce is hell ! I miss my guns. LOL

[Guest Big-A]

Just looked on gunbroker. I think one can be had for the price of a glock.The shop i see em at was way to high.

[Trekbike]

S&W, M&P's 700$ +! Come on!

Not sure where your doing your M&P shopping...Most I see are in the $550 range.

[Guest CJK]

Heartily agree -- my CZ 75 is one of my very favorite guns.

I also agree about the EAA/Tanfoglio Witness pistols -- I am being sorely tempted by one at the gun shop my range is attached to every time I walk past the counter ...

[Smith]

CZ's are definitely underrated. I've had the P07 and is was a great gun, the 75's are legendary. I also think the Ruger SR9 is a pretty underrated gun. Great gun for the value.

[Guest CK1]

The Sig 250 is abhoration IMO, think they just charged full price until word got out about their triggers and more than a few guys brought them home before they really took in what they'd just got for their money. I wouldn't buy one for $100 let alone $500+ or whatever they were getting.

The drag with CZ's can be factory mags based on how long it takes CZ-USA to get'em from the homeland, thus the $50, good thing Mec-Gar (who make the OEM mags anyways) 16, 17, and 19rd mags are easily found for $20-25.

Also, want to put it out there that from what I've seen most of the info out there on firearms forums regarding CZ's is nonsense and comes from people who've never owned/shot them (a lot like the incorrect BS about Glocks really)... most of the nonsense will have you expecting a rough finished pistol with a gritty trigger that's a jam-o-matic until you replace the extractor spring and are only safe to shoot if you're carrying around 14 extra slide-stops and 12 extra trigger-return-springs... truth is their polycoat is near indestructible and if you want a more reliable gun a Glock is your only single option (keeping in-mind the fact that an "ok" CZ trigger is A LOT better than the best Vanek, Glockworx, whatever-Glock-trigger money can buy).

Edited November 24, 2010 by CK1

[Guest Haji]

My experience with the CZ's and EAA clones has been dreadful. We had a couple CZ75B's with the Omega trigger system. The one on the shelf wouldn't drop the hammer all the way to the firing pin if you held it at an angle. It was returned to CZ for repair, which they did rather quickly. The trigger bar was replaced, and it went back on the shelf. It was bought a month later, and was returned two weeks after that to go back to CZ for repair again. It hasn't been back since then. The other was sold on Gunbroker, and a week and a half after delivery, I received an e-mail from the buyer saying it was going back to CZ for repair. So, 100% failure rate and we'll never even special order a CZ again.

The EAA belonged to my shooting mate Mike, who bought a .45 as a carry gun for the shop he worked at part time. We were on the range when he told me he had a dead trigger. The trigger moved, but acted like it wasn't connected to anything. At that point, it had about 200 rounds through it. It went back, and EAA "repaired" it and send it back within about two weeks. Upon getting the gun back, Mike and I were back on the range, and roughly 50 rounds later, the same thing happened. It went back, got "repaired" again, and was sold at a loss when it made it back to Mike again. That was enough for me.

Why are CZ's cheaper? Because they're imported. Labor costs overseas are significantly lower (obviously depending on the location) than they are here in the US. Same with a lot of other imported brands. The P250's are dropping in price because they suck and nobody will buy them. They've failed spectacularly in testing, where the MnP and Glock have shined. In Police work they call that a "clue".

It's easy to think of the price as "paying for the name". In a sense you are, but the reality is that you're paying for the quality that the name represents and the reputation of quality that's been built over time. Reputations don't just happen, they're earned; good and bad.

The underrated gun award may go to the Ruger SR9. Most of Ruger's guns of late have been crap, but the SR9 may be the exception. I don't think it's been around long enough just yet; it's gotta prove itself in large numbers, rather than the relatively small sample size that exists now. It may be a winner, even though I don't like it much.

[Guest CK1]

Haji, all brand-allegiance or fandom aside, CZ's aren't very complicated or hard to figure out, if you had one that wasn't dropping the hammer and found it necessary to send it back to CZ-USA, while still not knowing what the problem was, rather than taking the 10 mins to figure it out and take care of it yourself tells me that by being ignorant you let your customer down and that perhaps you might want to consider getting out of the firearms business, or at the very least giving others advice on them... the design has been proven to be rock-solid for decades, to the point where Jeff Cooper considered it as good, if not better than his most-beloved 1911 design, there are only few possible causes that'd make an example do that and all of them can be solved with a screwdriver and at worst 5-10 mins with a file, admitting that nonsense out-loud makes you and your shop look pretty sorry IMHO.

Don't even get me started on your friend Mike and his Witness and how ignorant that sounds to anyone who knows a thing or two about the CZ/Tanfoglio/Jericho/Baby Eagle platform (gee, why would so many copy the same design if it sucked so bad?) .

Sorry to sound like such a d**k, but I can't stand hearing fools spout off BS when really they don't know s**t about what they're talking about.

Edited November 25, 2010 by CK1

[Guest Haji]

I'm a fool? Screw you. You're talking about taking screwdrivers and files to BRAND NEW GUNS. If you work in a gun store, you're the last person I wanna buy a gun from. Just what I need: somebody hackin' around in a new gun that should work out of the box. Take tools to 'em, and they're not new anymore, genius, and they can't be sold as such. You not only sound like a dick, you are a dick.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wow, just wow.

I can understand not wanting to fix it yourself, trust me I do. Problem I have is when a gun, with a known problem, is sold without letting the new buyer know. I can gurantee your friend didn't say " I want to sell this gun and it doesn't work". To me that is nearing fraud in my book and even associating with someone who would do that speaks volumes about you.

Yes I have sold guns that had issues but I always let the buyer knew up front what those issues were. The last gun I sold because of a problem was a S&W .22 pistol. I bought it new for over $300 than sold it for $100 a week later when they were still newly introduced guns. I could have easily kept my mouth shut and sold it for over $200 but it just wasn't right. I tried to let S&W fix the problem but they wanted to use one of my lifetime tune ups for a repair. I didn't out of principle because it was a warranty issue related to quality control at the factory.

I have had a couple of EAA Witness' over the years. They have all went bang when I pulled the trigger. My last one I shot A LOT and never had an issue with it. With that being said I will probably not pick up another new, not because they have issues but because I don't really care for them.

No maker that makes a perfect gun 100% of the time.

Dolomite

[Guest m&pc9]

Sorry to sound like such a d**k, but I can't stand hearing fools spout off BS when really they don't know s**t about what they're talking about.

How is that BS when it actually happened to him?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Here is a dumb question. Maybe will have to call CZ Customs and ask Angus, but am curious if anyone here has ideas--

If a trigger is sweetened up with a competition hammer and alternate springs or whatever it takes-- Can this lighten up the hammer strike so much that hard primers might not fire?

I always reload with Federal primers and usually use Federal practice 9mm, so on 9mm it probably wouldn't be an issue.

But was more interested whether a sweetened trigger could affect function with a Kadet .22 conversion slide.

I wonder because of analogy-- The Beretta factory .22 conversions light off pretty reliably on a stock Beretta 92FS, but I've read that if you lighten the trigger too much with a lighter hammer spring, that you can get ignition problems on the .22 conversion.

My 92FS .22 conversion runs fine on most ammo with a factory trigger. I've run a lot of Federal Bulk pack and CCI Minimag thru it no problemo.

But there are a couple of kinds of .22 I've tried that may be just bad ammo, or maybe it is just real hard, that will fail to fire 2 or more out of each mag of 10. Unless the ammo has just recently got too old, it used to shoot pretty reliably in other .22's I have. One of the brands is a couple old bricks of Aguila hyper-velocity. I haven't shot it much over the years because the hyper-velocity isn't especially accurate in my experience, and that is how it has got old sitting around. I was just trying to use it up and get it off the shelf.

Anyway, perhaps whatever ignition issues on a 92 with .22 slide wouldn't have any relevance to a light trigger on a CZ with Kadet slide. Was just wondering. I want to either get another CZ and a Kadet slide, or a Kadet pistol. It would be more expensive to get another CZ + Kadet slide, but more flexible because you can't put a 9mm slide on a dedicated Kadet pistol, and the Kadet pistols are pretty expensive compared to most .22 range pistols.

[USMCJG]

Wow! Someone redlined my a-hole detector and my obnoxious, condescending know-it-all detector caught on fire.

Edited November 26, 2010 by USMCJG

[Guest CK1]

Lester, that's a solid question, and the answer is that you're right, you can indeed lighten up a CZ trigger to where it will light-strike with the Kadet .22s.

I run a 13lb hammer-spring which is as low as you can go, and it'll set off just about anything as far as i know (i've never had a light-strike through over 3000rds on the spring), but, to be extra sure, you can install a $20 extended firing-pin or clip a coil or two off of the firing spring if you want to be extra safe that it'll ignite all primers if you like the 13lb spring. The Kadet kit and the .22s need more of a smack as it seems the lightest guys have success with is at least a 15lb hammer-spring, sometimes a 16. FWIW, in SA-mode the difference is barely noticeable so if you you don't mind a slightly heavier DA pull it's a non-issue. If you're going to go back and forth between the Kadet and 9/40 slide just stop at a 15lb hammer-spring and it'll run drama free.

FYI/FWIW, the competition hammer may be the best thing you ever do for yourself, the shorter hooks and higher sear-bed is a HUGE instant trigger-job, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner and for $63 it's more than worth every penny, it's like getting a different/better gun, no exageration and not kidding.

Edited November 26, 2010 by CK1

[Guest CK1]

Wow! Someone redlined my a-hole detector and my obnoxious, condescending know-it-all detector caught on fire.

Sorry about that, guess you could say I saw that BS post the same way.

Yeah, I was pretty obnoxious, that was lame of me, and I probably could've been more polite/gentle, sorry for that, meant every word though as I'd rather be the condescending know-it-all and be correct, than be putting nonsense out there as would-be know-how when it's total BS.

Edited November 26, 2010 by CK1

[Guest mikedwood]

I agree the CZ is one of the most under rated. I have a CZ-52 and for a 40 year old gun it's unreal. I think if Smith or Colt had made them just like they would be near a $1,000 gun in 40 year old used shape. (of course there wouldn't be 199,999,999 of them out there)

I also have a CZ P01 and it just feels like silk or something to hold it and it's a very accurate and reliable shooter.

I wouldn't back down from buying any CZ and I wouldn't step up to the best deal on a Tanfaglio. They are NOT the same gun I don't care how similar they look. Tanfaglio's customer service is last to none in my opinion and very rude. (I tried to like Tangalio guns cause they are cheap and look pretty good but I have had two and they both were crap, crap! The only gun manu I actually hate is Tanfaglio.

On the flip side I got one CZ-52 and loved it so much I got another just cause it is one super awesome firearm.