Profiling

[Guest clsutton21]

Is that the circus trick?

I'm not gonna argue with you because you'll just end up deleting my posts or editing them to say what you want.

The circus trick is you responding to a locked thread by creating a new one in direct continuation of the old one. It was locked for a reason. That's all I will say about it.

[Daniel]

To be quite honest, I'm still not sure what your position is. The gist of what I got from the initial thread is that you believe that anyone who is white, male, former military, supports the 2nd Amendment, and is fond of Jefferson as a founding father is a potential terrorist. I think there is a job waiting for you in the DOJ or the DHS when you get out of the reserves.

lol I already work for DoD as a civilian.

My point is that anyone has the potential to be a terrorist.

Jihad Jane is a white middle aged life long US citizen. Jose Padilla is an inner city latino. We can't rely on profiling to solve the problem. One of the main people behind the Murfreesboro Muslim center being built is a white woman from Brooklyn or Queens if I remember correctly. I am not saying shes a terrorist I am just saying race and nationality are not good indicators.

[Daniel]

I'm not gonna argue with you because you'll just end up deleting my posts or editing them to say what you want.

The circus trick is you responding to a locked thread by creating a new one in direct continuation of the old one. It was locked for a reason. That's all I will say about it.

It was locked to keep people like you from getting banned.

[Mike.357]

So I deleted his post

nothing like a little censorship

[USMCJG]

lol I already work for DoD as a civilian.

My point is that anyone has the potential to be a terrorist.

Jihad Jane is a white middle aged life long US citizen. Jose Padilla is an inner city latino. We can't rely on profiling to solve the problem. One of the main people behind the Murfreesboro Muslim center being built is a white woman from Brooklyn or Queens if I remember correctly. I am not saying shes a terrorist I am just saying race and nationality are not good indicators.

Well if that was the point that you were trying to make, then I am in almost complete agreement. I will say though that you did a very poor job of making your point.

[Daniel]

nothing like a little censorship

******* guys. I will put it back. All it ****ing said was "agreed" or some ****. wtf.

[Daniel]

*** here i reopened the first thread.. I did not merge them yet though*****

Here you go guys. I will reopen the thread so you can post if you would like. I did not want clsutton in my corner so I had deleted his post. and just locked it. Since I am censoring his right to free speach I have put it back.

Here is the thread where my actions were questioned logically and without insult. Please read it before continuing on. Some of you may misunderstand my point in making this thread if you do not read it as well.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/49184-poll-profiling-thread.html

Fight the power

Edited November 20, 2010 by Daniel

[Daniel]

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/49180-profiling.html

I reopened the thread.

[USMCJG]

To expound on the profiling thing, as that seems to be the crux of the argument, I am against profiling based on any one criteria but EVERYBODY PROFILES, EVERY DAY. If you are walking along a sidewalk in a bad part of town alone at night and two men turn a corner and begin walking towards you, you immediately start "profiling" them. You probably prefer to use the term "threat assessment" but it's semantics, profiling is what you are doing. We all do it, it's a perfectly normal survival instinct.

[USMCJG]

Daniel, I think it would be wise to expound on your initial post in this thread based on what you wrote in the other thread. As is, it comes off as an attack on many members of the forum. Of course if that was your intention, then carry on.

[USMCJG]

Can a moderator close the poll without closing the thread? I would like for the poll to be closed as it is no longer relevant since the original "Profiling" thread has been reopened.

[Garufa]

EVERYBODY PROFILES, EVERY DAY. If you are walking along a sidewalk in a bad part of town alone at night and two men turn a corner and begin walking towards you, you immediately start "profiling" them.

It is human nature. Why fight it?

[USMCJG]

It is human nature. Why fight it?

Oh, I'm not going to fight it. I am against institutionalized profiling based on a single criteria. But profiling based on the situation and using your own instincts is just good sense.

[Daniel]

Can a moderator close the poll without closing the thread? I would like for the poll to be closed as it is no longer relevant since the original "Profiling" thread has been reopened.

Done.

I am in agreement on your last post btw.

[USMCJG]

Done.

I am in agreement on your last post btw.

Thanks.

[Mike.357]

I profile every single time I encounter someone I do not already know. Does not matter the situation or who they are. In my mind I determine what I may be dealing with.

anyone who denies doing that same thing is either lying or an idiot.

Jay Rockefeller probably would not admit to profilng either.

[Mike.357]

McVeigh appears to be white, clean cut and male.

Beyond that I cannot tell if he is christian, supports 2A or a conservative, that would all be an assumption. None of this matters anyway as far as determining if he is a threat to me.

I wear a t shirt with the TJ quote on it too. I am not going to blow up anything of importance.

Profile everyone getting on a plane. Less harm will come from it than not profiling.

[Daniel]

McVeigh appears to be white, clean cut and male.

Beyond that I cannot tell if he is christian, supports 2A or a conservative, that would all be an assumption. None of this matters anyway as far as determining if he is a threat to me.

I wear a t shirt with the TJ quote on it too. I am not going to blow up anything of importance.

Profile everyone getting on a plane. Less harm will come from it than not profiling.

If you see a white American male with a T.J. quoting shirt on it is a good chance he is a christian right? Most Americans are in fact christian. The T.J. shirt would lead me to believe he is a conservative. Conservatives believe in the RTKABAs generally. All of these things are examples of profiling Tim McVeigh. Your example of you wearing the shirt but not blowing anything up is part of my point. You see him and profile him as to not be a threat when in reality he killed 168 people.

[Glenn]

I would bet if you had talked to McVeigh for a few minutes you might have known he was a threat.

Glenn

[Daniel]

He would have said things like this.

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter:

The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.

[23]

McVeigh dissociated himself from his boyhood friend, Steve Hodge, by sending a 23-page farewell letter to him. He proclaimed his devotion to the United States Declaration of Independence, explaining in detail what each sentence meant to him. McVeigh declared that:

Those who betray or subvert the Constitution are guilty of sedition and/or treason, are domestic enemies and should and will be punished accordingly. It also stands to reason that anyone who sympathizes with the enemy or gives aid or comfort to said enemy is likewise guilty. I have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I will. And I will because not only did I swear to, but I believe in what it stands for in every bit of my heart, soul and being.

I know in my heart that I am right in my struggle, Steve. I have come to peace with myself, my God and my cause. Blood will flow in the streets, Steve. Good vs. Evil. Free Men vs. Socialist Wannabe Slaves. Pray it is not your blood, my friend.

McVeigh composed two letters to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, the first titled "Constitutional Defenders" and the second "ATF Read." He denounced government agents as "fascist tyrants" and "storm troopers" and warned:

ATF, all you tyrannical people will swing in the wind one day for your treasonous actions against the Constitution of the United States. Remember the

Nuremberg War Trials

.

[2]

"Psychiatrist John Smith concluded that [McVeigh] was a decent person who had allowed rage to build up inside him to the point that he had lashed out in one terrible, violent act." – from a BBC story on McVeigh.

McVeigh's only known political affiliations were his voter registration with the Republican Party of New York when he lived in Buffalo, New York, and a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military.[82]

[Mike.357]

If you see a white American male with a T.J. quoting shirt on it is a good chance he is a christian right?

The fact that a white male is a christian to me is not enhanced by the TJ t shirt. I am fairly sure lots of jews like Jefferson's views too. Like you said most americans are christian but the shirt would not believe me to assume that person was. I have a similar shirt and I am not so sure I am christian.

FWIW I am not here to have a measuring contest with you Daniel.

and also FWIW McVeigh might have passed a profile exam but I don't think Mohammed Atta would have.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Mike.357

[Daniel]

Good. My e-peen is small.

Here is a graph of the religious breakdown for the US. While it is not adjusted by sex it should come as no surprise that over 75% of the US population is some form of christian. The Jewish population is less than 2%.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Daniel

[USMCJG]

He would have said things like this.

In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." He told a student reporter:The government is afraid of the guns people have because they have to have control of the people at all times. Once you take away the guns, you can do anything to the people. You give them an inch and they take a mile. I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government. The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control.[23]

I, and probably some other members here, agree with a lot of what McVeigh said in this quote. Hillary and Barry agree with a lot of what Hitler, Stalin and Lenin did(socialized medicine, spreading the wealth, etc.). McVeigh killed 168 people. Hitler, Lenin and Stalin killed at least 30,000,000. It doesn't mean a thing. It doesn't mean I'm a terrorist, and it doesn't mean that Barry or Hillary want to practice genocide. It is a pretty huge leap to imply that because someone may agree with something a lunatic said, that they will become lunatics themselves.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

nothing like a little censorship

And childishness to boot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Daniel]

I, and probably some other members here, agree with a lot of what McVeigh said in this quote. Hillary and Barry agree with a lot of what Hitler, Stalin and Lenin did(socialized medicine, spreading the wealth, etc.). McVeigh killed 168 people. Hitler, Lenin and Stalin killed at least 30,000,000. It doesn't mean a thing. It doesn't mean I'm a terrorist, and it doesn't mean that Barry or Hillary want to practice genocide. It is a pretty huge leap to imply that because someone may agree with something a lunatic said, that they will become lunatics themselves.

I agree with you. I also agree with some of his points.

The difference is I do not think we are heading for a civil war. I do not suggest on this forum that the only way we are going to be able to settle our differences is with armed violence against fellow citizens.

I am not saying you are either. The fact remains it has been said on this board. As I stated earlier, Tim McVeigh probably didn't know where he was heading. It took time to become that bitter. That sure that we had no other way.