Profiling

[Daniel]

This is to the profiling advocates.

He appears to be a clean cut, white, male, Christian, conservative, 2nd amendment supporting, all around good guy right? Why would anyone give him any trouble at the airport? He isn't Muslim or Middle Eastern.

Here he is fighting for our rights.

We support the troops right?

He even likes Thomas Jefferson like so many of us.

He wore this shirt on one of the most important days of his life.

The day he did this.

Maybe you know him better in orange.

It may be wise to read this page on Mr. McVeigh... Several of you sound eerily similiar.

Timothy McVeigh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Guest clsutton21]

Thank you.

[Daniel]

I am going to lock this thread. Not because I am scared of replies but because I probably shouldnt have made it. I did not want to post in the other after someone else had locked it.

*****

I have merged this thread with a response thread. As a consequence things will appear a little out of order in a couple places. The following posts were posted in reply to this thread.

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Edited November 20, 2010 by Daniel

[USMCJG]

I had a problem with Daniel's thread titled "Profiling". I viewed it as a classless hit and run attack on some members of this community. What say you, fellow TGOers? Was Daniel's thread accusing members of the forum of being potential terrorists out of line?

[Daniel]

I had a problem with Daniel's thread titled "Profiling". I viewed it as a classless hit and run attack on some members of this community. What say you, fellow TGOers? Was Daniel's thread accusing members of the forum of being potential terrorists out of line?

I haven't accused anyone of being a terrorist. I would just caution members of our community to stop or at least slow down and look at the road they are traveling. I am sure that Timothy McVeigh didn't think of himself as a terrorist just a few years before he ended up as one.

I can see how you would think it was hit and run in that I locked it. The first reply was form cslutton and tbh I do not want his help making my point. So I deleted his post and locked the thread. If you would like to reply to it feel free to here. I just didn't want it thought I made the thread to start a fight.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Daniel

[Garufa]

You point was made, very inappropriately and irrelevantly. If you truly want to engage in a discussion with the forum members then please do so.

It's not just an impression of "hit and run". The fact is, it was.

I recommend you delete that posting altogether.

[Daniel]

How was it inappropriate or irrelevant?

[USMCJG]

I haven't accused anyone of being a terrorist. I would just caution members of our community to stop or at least slow down and look at the road they are traveling. I am sure that Timothy McVeigh didn't think of himself as a terrorist just a few years before he ended up as one.

I can see how you would think it was hit and run in that I locked it. The first reply was form cslutton and tbh I do not want his help making my point. So I deleted his post and locked the thread. If you would like to reply to it feel free to here. I just didn't want it thought I made the thread to start a fight.

I may have misunderstood your reason for posting that thread, but it seemed clear to my mind that it was indeed intended to start a fight. It seems to me that you used ONE person to paint everyone who might consider themselves as a pro Constitution patriot as a potential terrorist. And yes, I do realize that you never accused anyone of actually being a terrorist.

For the record, I am a former Marine, I believe in a strict constructionist interpretation of the Constitution, I am a fan of Thomas Jefferson, and I DON'T consider myself to be a potential terrorist. Also, I would gladly wear that shirt(well not that EXACT shirt).

[Garufa]

McVeigh came long before the current security paranoia now rampant in this county. There was no TSA at the time and even if there was they are not responsible for searching rented vans and guys that buy fertilizer at the hardware store.

Unfortunately, he could not be stopped. More importantly is it cannot be stopped. Maybe it will happen again, maybe it won't. Personally, I would prefer that the average citizen's rights, humanity and dignity were respected enough to go after "potential" terrorists as opposed to everyone that walks in the door.

How that is best accomplished I do not know. What I do feel is assuming everyone guilty and subjecting them to invasive, humiliating searches is not the answer.

[Daniel]

I may have misunderstood your reason for posting that thread, but it seemed clear to my mind that it was indeed intended to start a fight. It seems to me that you used ONE person to paint everyone who might consider themselves as a pro Constitution patriot as a potential terrorist. And yes, I do realize that you never accused anyone of actually being a terrorist.

For the record, I am a former Marine, I believe in a strict constructionist interpretation of the Constitution, I am a fan of Thomas Jefferson, and I DON'T consider myself to be a potential terrorist. Also, I would gladly wear that shirt(well not that EXACT shirt).

To your comment about being a former Marine.

I am a current US Army Soldier. I am in the Reserve but I was formerly an active duty Infantryman with the 2/502nd Inf Reg of the 101st Airborne. I have spent my time in Iraq and will soon be making may way to a combat theater again as PSYOP.

Back to the threads purpose.

My point is that people here were saying that Profiling Middle Easterners was the answer to solving our terrorism problem.

I do not agree.

Here are some other examples since you believe I am staking my argument on one person.

You may know him as Ted Kaczynski. Pretty much anti everything.

Here is another survivalist.

Eric Rudolph. The Olympic Games bomber.

[ftncityfatboy]

I read the thread and yes I think it pointed the finger at many people. To start something like that and then lock it shows a lack of testicular fortitude. Somebody needs to grow a set and stand behind what you say/write. JMTCW......

[Daniel]

McVeigh came long before the current security paranoia now rampant in this county. There was no TSA at the time and even if there was they are not responsible for searching rented vans and guys that buy fertilizer at the hardware store.

Unfortunately, he could not be stopped. More importantly is it cannot be stopped. Maybe it will happen again, maybe it won't. Personally, I would prefer that the average citizen's rights, humanity and dignity were respected enough to go after "potential" terrorists as opposed to everyone that walks in the door.

How that is best accomplished I do not know. What I do feel is assuming everyone guilty and subjecting them to invasive, humiliating searches is not the answer.

The searches are not inherently humiliating. I have been searched. It doesnt bother me. Everyone is having it done. I have been through sniffers, scanners, metal detectors, and pat downs. I have been segregated for closer inspection. Almost everytime I fly I find a little TSA card in my luggage where they have taken my bags out to be rifled through.

[Daniel]

I read the thread and yes I think it pointed the finger at many people. To start something like that and then lock it shows a lack of testicular fortitude. Somebody needs to grow a set and stand behind what you say/write. JMTCW......

As I said. I didnt start it to get a fight going. I just wanted it to be seen and for people to think about what they are saying and doing. My nuts are fine btw.

[mav]

I have read through both threads. I have no idea what your intentions were. While I disagree with your position on profiling, I will give you the benefit of doubt that it wasn't your intention to smear fellow posters as potential terrorists. However, I think you wrote your words poorly.

It may be wise to read this page on Mr. McVeigh... Several of you sound eerily similiar.

That leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Edited November 20, 2010 by mav
misspelling

[USMCJG]

To your comment about being a former Marine.

I am a current US Army Soldier. I am in the Reserve but I was formerly an active duty Infantryman with the 2/502nd Inf Reg of the 101st Airborne. I have spent my time in Iraq and will soon be making may way to a combat theater again as PSYOP.

Good for you and thanks for your service.

My point is that people here were saying that Profiling Middle Easterners was the answer to solving our terrorism problem.

I do not agree.

I am fairly certain that this wasn't your point. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Here are some other examples since you believe I am staking my argument on one person.

You may know him as Ted Kaczynski. Pretty much anti everything.

Here is another survivalist.

Eric Rudolph. The Olympic Games bomber.

It seems like you are in CYA mode now. I really don't believe you were trying to argue with anyone. If you were you wouldn't have posted your thread and then locked it. You wanted to make your point without having to answer for it. I have called you on it and now you are throwing in Rudolph and Kaczynski, neither of whom have any relation to what you were insinuating in your previous thread, to try and give that thread some meaning and make it seem less offensive.

[USMCJG]

As I said. I didnt start it to get a fight going. I just wanted it to be seen and for people to think about what they are saying and doing. My nuts are fine btw.

Perhaps a blog would be a more appropriate venue. Posting controversial threads and then using your moderator status to prevent others from responding does not exactly have the smell of propriety. By the way, glad to hear your nuts are okay.

[Guest clsutton21]

I really don't believe you were trying to argue with anyone. If you were you wouldn't have posted your thread and then locked it. You wanted to make your point without having to answer for it. I have called you on it and now you are throwing in Rudolph and Kaczynski, neither of whom have any relation to what you were insinuating in your previous thread, to try and give that thread some meaning and make it seem less offensive.

The only reason the guy locked it is because I posted in agreement with what he posted. He wanted to start an argument. Hell, I believe he didn't get a chance to post in the other thread so he wanted to start that one. If he wasn't a mod, he would have been banned for that circus trick by now.

Edited November 20, 2010 by clsutton21

[Daniel]

Good for you and thanks for your service.

I am fairly certain that this wasn't your point. We will just have to agree to disagree.

It seems like you are in CYA mode now. I really don't believe you were trying to argue with anyone. If you were you wouldn't have posted your thread and then locked it. You wanted to make your point without having to answer for it. I have called you on it and now you are throwing in Rudolph and Kaczynski, neither of whom have any relation to what you were insinuating in your previous thread, to try and give that thread some meaning and make it seem less offensive.

I did not lock it at first. I intended to let it be commented on. I refreshed the new posts button and cslutton had replied. He is someone I *dont* want on my side. I decided to just close it as I didn't want the same argument that was about to start in the "...3 yo searched by TSA..." thread I had wanted that post to be in.

Perhaps a blog would be a more appropriate venue. Posting controversial threads and then using your moderator status to prevent others from responding does not exactly have the smell of propriety. By the way, glad to hear your nuts are okay.

As I said I did want to leave it open but it just seemed a little incendiary.

I am not trying to CYA as you put it. If I was I would just erase the whole thing. I am not sitting here ignoring the disagreement I am here defending my position.

Now. I have copied the specific things I read, as quotes from McViegh, that I was reminded of things I have seen here. These would be the things I was referencing in my post. I can paste them in if anyone wants to see them.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Daniel

[USMCJG]

If he wasn't a mod, he would have been banned for that circus trick by now.

So are you accusing Daniel of using his mod status to get away with "circus tricks"?

[Daniel]

The only reason the guy locked it is because I posted in agreement with what he posted. He wanted to start an argument. Hell, he even said he didn't get a chance to post in the other thread so he wanted to start that one. If he wasn't a mod, he would have been banned for that circus trick by now.

You have it backwards. I did not want an argument. So I closed it. If someone felt strongly enough to make a new thread I would reply as I did here I just didn't want to make it as easy as a quick reply.

[Guest clsutton21]

So are you accusing Daniel of using his mod status to get away with "circus tricks"?

No. Anyone can post a new thread that is a continuation to a locked one.

[Daniel]

I could have just posted in the locked one. I just didn't want to lesson the effect of MacGyvers post as I thought it was a good one to end on. I just wanted to say something about the topic though. Couldn't help myself.

[Guest clsutton21]

The first reply was form cslutton and tbh I do not want his help making my point. So I deleted his post and locked the thread. If you would like to reply to it feel free to here.

...

[Daniel]

...

Is that the circus trick?

[USMCJG]

I am not trying to CYA as you put it. If I was I would just erase the whole thing. I am not sitting here ignoring the disagreement I am here defending my position.

To be quite honest, I'm still not sure what your position is. The gist of what I got from the initial thread is that you believe that anyone who is white, male, former military, supports the 2nd Amendment, and is fond of Jefferson as a founding father is a potential terrorist. I think there is a job waiting for you in the DOJ or the DHS when you get out of the reserves. Edited November 20, 2010 by USMCJG