Airport screening, going wayyyy too far.

[K191145]

My neice is upset, said she felt violated after going through the new scanner and then being pulled aside to be patted down at the Las Vegas airport. I really hope enough people decide not to fly this holiday season for the economy to take a big hit over this crap. That's the only way to calm down the TSA Gestopo is for big business CEO's to get on their case. There's security, then there's crapping on peoples civil liberties.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-now-putting-hands-down-fliers-pants.html

Edited November 16, 2010 by K191145

[K191145]

Remember,

‎"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Ben Franklin:

[Guest HvyMtl]

I am just waiting for the inevitable cavity searches.

[Garufa]

The government has made their position clear on this foolishness. You're getting scanned, patted or whatever. Don't like it don't fly.

Personally, I think it is a huge crock of . Exactly how many "terrorist" attacks have the TSA's measures thwarted? None to few if any.

Further proof that the "terrorists", whoever they are, won a long time ago.

[Guest bkelm18]

I subscribe to the saying: "Don't like it? Don't fly." Flying isn't a god-given right guaranteed in the constitution. You are not being forced to fly. Is it convenient? Heck yeah. Are there other alternatives? Yep. Welcome to the future. It's only going to get worse.

[Guest HvyMtl]

This will not change. Until it cripples the airline's ability to make $. Then the TSA will have to back down.

[dats82]

My problem with it all is that I cannot see how it actually prevents much of anything. As far as those scanners go, they "randomly" select people to go through the scanner or be patted down. I had to go through one of those whole body scanners, and it did not matter to me. While I was getting radiated, 15 other people just walked throught the metal detector. What I think is such a joke about it is that I am as white as you can get. I have blond hair, blue eyes, wearing jeans, and cowboy boots. I am not being racist, but just look at the most recent attempts on security and give me a description of those people. I do not match that description. If it were such that everyone went through the scanners, then perhaps it would make a difference. Untill we either (1) accept that profiling is an efficient means to preventing crime or (2) make such that every single passenger is subject to the same security measures, I do not see how we are appreciably more secure than we ever were.

[helxis]

What I don't understand is this: As far as I know, every potential terrorist attack that I can think of was thwarted by the passengers in the plane. Which means they got through TSA. Which means TSA's methods don't work. If through some improbability some x-ray machine and someone with a GED prevents the next 9/11, then I'll support these new measures. It's not going to happen though. What's more likely to happen is these morons are going to get caught saving these images and there's going to be a boatload of lawsuits.

Flying may not be a god-given right, but not being groped is as far as I'm concerned.

I remember reading that the screening processes for hiring these TSA people is incredibly lax and that convicted felons and even sex offenders had been hired. I'll try to find that link. I don't think women appreciate being trim-coordinated by "security".

[Steelharp]

BFD. I got patted down in MT last week. Get over it.

[xd shooter]

Have you ever thought that the reason they don"t catch as many as you would like is because the have not been "patting dowu" or using "some x-ray" machine?

There is one solution stay off the planes if you don't like it! Otherwise let someone do their job!

[greenego]

[Garufa]

If Amtrak came through Knoxville I'd be riding it all the time.

[dats82]

Have you priced Amtrak rides? I just got curious after your posting to see how it would compare to flying. I frequently fly between Nashville and Kansas City for about $80. Amtrak only comes to Memphis and Newbern in TN, so I check from Kansas City to Birmingham. It quoted a price of about $240 and a travel time of 52 hrs. I always wondered why they constantly lost money; I think I understand now.

[Mark@Sea]

AMTRAK is a gov't subsidiary. You could've counted on it being way too expensive and taking way too long.

Want a funny? Check out timetables for steam passenger trains in the 40's and 50's. They were faster.

And yep, the new procedures go too far... Not sure how I will deal with some guy sticking his hand down my pants and feeling me up.

[Steelharp]

some guy sticking his hand down my pants and feeling me up.

Not what happens at all. Waaaay over-sensationalized in the news today.

[mikegideon]

The government has made their position clear on this foolishness. You're getting scanned, patted or whatever. Don't like it don't fly.

Personally, I think it is a huge crock of . Exactly how many "terrorist" attacks have the TSA's measures thwarted? None to few if any.

Further proof that the "terrorists", whoever they are, won a long time ago.

Yep. The shoe bomber was successful. Just look at all the folks in their sock feet. The TSA has accomplished absolutely nothing since they were formed. I DON'T fly if there's any way around it. Quit a long time ago, shortly after I almost slapped one of those self-important pea brained idiots in Dallas.

[K191145]

I subscribe to the saying: "Don't like it? Don't fly." Flying isn't a god-given right guaranteed in the constitution. You are not being forced to fly. Is it convenient? Heck yeah. Are there other alternatives? Yep. Welcome to the future. It's only going to get worse.

Well I guess you could also say that driving through the park with your handgun isn't a god given right either but alot of us fought hard to be able to do it. Maybe you don't care if your relatives gets felt up by some minimum wage security guard but i'm not going to be a little sheep and accept that. No, you don't have to fly, you don't have to drive through the park or eat at a restaurant that serves alcohol etc.

[Guest HvyMtl]

AMTRAK is a gov't subsidiary. You could've counted on it being way too expensive and taking way too long.

Want a funny? Check out timetables for steam passenger trains in the 40's and 50's. They were faster.

And yep, the new procedures go too far... Not sure how I will deal with some guy sticking his hand down my pants and feeling me up.

Apples and Oranges. Railroads back then ran the passenger trains. They were profitable and a direct connection to the general public. It was the face of the railroad and used to sell the main money maker - freight service. The advent of Automobiles and Airplanes eliminated the profitability of the passenger service, except certain corridors (like the Washington-Baltimore- Philly-NYC connections.)

Also, the rails were built to higher standards back then, as the passenger service was the advertising for the railroads. Due to the fact a fast freight is 50 mph, there is no need to build tracks for higher speeds, which lowers maintenance costs, and slows Amtrak further. In addition, Amtrak is slow due to the lack of priority given them by the railroads they are on. Railroads get paid for Amtrak, but they make more $ with a freight train. So their priority is the freight, not the passenger.

Greyhound could be faster, too. If they did not have to stop at every village, town, incorporated area, or wide spot in the road. Greyhound rates can be a bit more competitive.

Amtrak rates are more, as you GET more than a shrunken seat and 2 carry on. Those tickets included a bunk with real live linens, snack service or even full on food service(try to get that on an airline) and comfy seats with a view.

BACK TO TOPIC: Seems they pat down 3 year-olds as well.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=77140

that said... They need to change the "appropriate age" on the pic below.

Edited November 17, 2010 by HvyMtl

[Guest HvyMtl]

Oh and some sites of interest:

TSA Scan This: Scanning the TSA and The STATE of Travel.

NSFW: Flying Pasties™ The ORIGINAL Airport Scanner Protector - Giving You Back Your Right To Privacy Where you can buy pasties and covers which cannot be seen through by the scanner... Wonder how the TSA will react to them. I recommend the one with the 4th Amendment printed on it...

And for those who are sitting here saying it is the "cost of flying," your actions show a lack of support for the Bill of Rights, specifically the 4th A. (2nd A is one of those in the Bill of Rights, too...)

[Guest oldsmobile98]

I subscribe to the saying: "Don't like it? Don't fly." Flying isn't a god-given right guaranteed in the constitution. You are not being forced to fly. Is it convenient? Heck yeah. Are there other alternatives? Yep. Welcome to the future. It's only going to get worse.

BFD. I got patted down in MT last week. Get over it.

Have you ever thought that the reason they don"t catch as many as you would like is because the have not been "patting dowu" or using "some x-ray" machine?

There is one solution stay off the planes if you don't like it! Otherwise let someone do their job!

Wow. Just wow.

When I read these responses, it makes me really appreciate the people in American history who just wouldn't sit down and shut up and go along to get along. I just went to see the Hermitage this past Saturday with a couple friends. Andrew Jackson had some serious flaws (for example, the Trail of Tears abomination, and his approval of chattel slavery), but the guy would rather die than roll over. He was nearly assassinated for his fight against the Second Bank of the United States. Read this quote attributed to him:

"You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the eternal God, will rout you out."

Would that we had more with his fighting spirit.

[Worriedman]

Just hold on, the TSA is going Union next year, that will make it all better! Can't wait, SEIU cross breeds with TSA, that will be a pure joy.

I fly at least once a week on average, and I have met about three TSA agents that don't have to take the short bus to get to work. I carry on my flights, (not LEO so it has to be placed in carry on luggage) so I have to deal with them, a lot. Worst is Memphis and best is Phoenix for carry passengers. Most airline agents know the score and the rules, most TSA agents do not. I carry a printed copy of their rules in my briefcase to show them when they get it really wrong. I have met the Supervisors in several airports, I get there 2 hours early on first flights through a new place.

They can run any check on me they want to, as long as they do it to everybody else that gets on the same plane.

Edited November 17, 2010 by Worriedman
Clarification

[Guest HvyMtl]

Here is the video of the 3 year old getting screened.

Shocker: TSA Has Been Molesting Children For Years

And Israel does not have these invasive over the top searches.

How the Israelis do airport security - CNN.com

We are allowing the TSA to do it wrong, and in violation of our Constitutional Rights.

[Steelharp]

"You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the eternal God, will rout you out."

Would that we had more with his fighting spirit.

Agreed... but I guess it is somewhat perspective. I certainly agree our enemy needs to be routed out; but first, the powers that be have to have the simple courage and willingness to identify our enemy. Most of us have the common sense to agree on who that is. Our current wave of PC-ness has those in power too intimidated to do even that.

I don't see fighting spirit as diminished in any way by being willing to go through a screening process. My grandparents were Italian immigrants; my mom built submarines during WWII in Groton, CT at EB. My dad was in the south Pacific killing the "yellow belly bastards," as he called them. AND, my family was investigated because of their Italian background. Should they have been? Yes. Did they whine about it? No; they understood as good Americans that there was a question, and because they had nothing to hide, they were fine with it.

HOWEVER, the process should lean toward those that obviously fit a "profile" (yeah, I said it, take THAT!) of the enemy. Should I have been patted down? No. Should a mid east guy in a moomoo? Yes. Should I complain and whine and hit the news to grab my 15 minutes of fame because of it? No. I don't feel that my fighting spirit was compromised at all.

(add: the 3 yr old thing is absurd. That should have never happened. Someone deserves a 12 gauge cavity search.)

Edited November 17, 2010 by Steelharp

[JayC]

I subscribe to the saying: "Don't like it? Don't fly." Flying isn't a god-given right guaranteed in the constitution. You are not being forced to fly. Is it convenient? Heck yeah. Are there other alternatives? Yep. Welcome to the future. It's only going to get worse.

4th Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Hmm sure seems to be flying without having a naked picture of my body, or somebody sexually assaulting me or my wife is a god given right. Remember this is a government agent doing this, not a private company.

What happens when this comes to buses, trains, and checkpoints crop up along the Interstate? We don't have a god given right to move around freely as we wish without being molested by government agents?

The TSA has been going way over the line since the day it was started, it's nice to see the American people waking up to it...

BTW, the totaly number of terrorists or terrorists attacks stopped by the TSA in 10 years - 0! The number of people killed because people tried to drive instead of fly to avoid the TSA - ~5,000

The terrorists already won.

[Punisher84]

What I don't understand is this: As far as I know, every potential terrorist attack that I can think of was thwarted by the passengers in the plane. Which means they got through TSA. Which means TSA's methods don't work. If through some improbability some x-ray machine and someone with a GED prevents the next 9/11, then I'll support these new measures. It's not going to happen though. What's more likely to happen is these morons are going to get caught saving these images and there's going to be a boatload of lawsuits.

Flying may not be a god-given right, but not being groped is as far as I'm concerned.

I remember reading that the screening processes for hiring these TSA people is incredibly lax and that convicted felons and even sex offenders had been hired. I'll try to find that link. I don't think women appreciate being trim-coordinated by "security".

Got something against people with a GED or are you just trying to be clever?

Oh and I'll drive thanks. I hate flying anyway.