CC at work - Small Business, GM and owner say its ok

[Guest foister82]

Guys and gals, i come to you with yet another couple CC question. I run a branch of a finance company in town. My GM in the past had been robbed at gunpoint in a branch in SC, and has armed and protected himself since. Not too long ago my assistant was robbed at gunpoint at the bank doing a night deposit. My GM is an avid 2nd Amend rights backer and says that as long as i'm not open carrying he's perfectly fine with me having my firearm at work, in fact said it would be a good idea considering the robbery.

1. Considering the Guns at Work junk that has been going on, if i have permission from the GM and owner can i keep my firearm either concealed or in my desk drawer
   
2. My assistant does not have her carry permit. Can she also keep a firearm at work in a desk drawer if ok with the business owner?
   
3. i know we cannot carry firearms onto bank property... does this extend to the drive through night deposit box? Meaning, to stay legal do i have to leave my firearm before heading to the bank or can i defend myself from my car from a would be robber/kidnapper/etc?
   

Edited November 15, 2010 by foister82

[Guest peacexxl]

Wow! A few good questions but you're starting with a lot of bad information. Not to nit-pick but you should probably start by getting your amendements righ. Either you meant the 2nc Amendment or you have some more explaining to do (but clearly don't wan't to) LOL.

Secondly, who told you you couldn't carry onto bank property? That only applies if the bank is posted. A lot of people think that you can't carry into banks and churches but if they want to prevent legal permit holders from carrying, they have to post properly or they are just another private establishment.

Back to the second question, IANAL but, my understanding of the law is that you don't need to have a permit in your home as long as you can legally own one. Also, in a business, if you are the owner of the business or if you have explicit permission from the owner of the business, you may be legally armed in your place of business. I am sure many will happily correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I believe to be true.

Anyway, congrats on having a boss who is open to you protecting yourself and excersising your rights although I am sorry he had to go through a negative experience to get there. I'd say do some more research and learn a little more about your rights and get some training because just having a gun is not enough to protect yourself. You also have to know how to use it.

Edited November 15, 2010 by peacexxl
spelling

[Guest foister82]

lol, 5th amendment... was dealing with an issue earlier regarding a hindering secured creditor case i have to attend next week

[DaveTN]

If you have an HCP you can carry anywhere that is not posted. You are not banned from carry in banks unless they are posted.

If you have to use deadly force in this state, the only question will be if you were justified; you won’t be prosecuted for firearms violations.

Don’t worry about the 5th unless you do something wrong.

[Guest foister82]

Wow! A few good questions but you're starting with a lot of bad information. Not to nit-pick but you should probably start by getting your amendements righ. Either you meant the 2nc Amendment or you have some more explaining to do (but clearly don't wan't to) LOL.

Secondly, who told you you couldn't carry onto bank property? That only applies if the bank is posted. A lot of people think that you can't carry into banks and churches but if they want to prevent legal permit holders from carrying, they have to post properly or they are just another private establishment.

Back to the second question, IANAL but, my understanding of the law is that you don't need to have a permit in your home as long as you can legally own one. Also, in a business, if you are the owner of the business or if you have explicit permission from the owner of the business, you may be legally armed in your place of business. I am sure many will happily correct me if I am wrong, but this is what I believe to be true.

Anyway, congrats on having a boss who is open to you protecting yourself and excersising your rights although I am sorry he had to go through a negative experience to get there. I'd say do some more research and learn a little more about your rights and get some training because just having a gun is not enough to protect yourself. You also have to know how to use it.

as far as the bank goes, i figure like most places that post i cannot ENTER the building but i could essentially defend myself on the property.

And as far as the training goes, im not sure there's ever ENOUGH training to be had... When it comes to protecting yourself at work the lines in the laws are very hard to understand

[xRUSTYx]

I have my own business and carry every single day .... I encourage my employees to carry when they get their HCP's. I even encouraged one to go to the class with me

o ... and as far as the bank situation .... I carry in my local BofA branches, and neither one is posted! Which is different from what I have heard of quite a few BofA branches, so I am really happy about that

[Oh Shoot]

If you have an HCP you can carry anywhere that is not posted. ..

OP didn't make that clear, whether he has HCP or not.

Says his assistant does not.

It is an exception to unlawful weapon possession that the possession was "at the person's ... place of business or premises".

Does that mean you must own the biz, or just work there?

This has of course been debated, with no clear outcome, and AFAIK, no TN AG opinion.

Obviously, HCP is best way to go.

- OS

[Guest foister82]

yes, i have HCP. She does not

[Oh Shoot]

yes, i have HCP. She does not

Your biz is not posted, correct? If so, obviously you are good to go, both legally and employment wise, don't even know why you asked about yourself.

As far as your assistant, see my previous post.

Obviously the odds of her being found out and charged with crime are pretty remote, but most folks want to be uber legal when it comes to gun possession,

so even if it were to be construed she is okay to carry in "her place of employment" (which I think is a stretch), to be truly legit, she'd have to leave the gun there, or to haul it back and forth daily, unload it, sufficiently separate ammo from gun, etc. What a hassle.

- OS

[Volzfan]

If you have an HCP you can carry anywhere that is not posted.

Schools and Post Offices are not normally posted but are off limits.

[Guest foister82]

i know that she was intending on leaving it here herself. She's taken classes just doesnt want to drop the dough and i cant convince her otherwise... maybe christmas present

[Oh Shoot]

i know that she was intending on leaving it here herself. ..

Well, real world stuff:

1. It might be legal for her to have it at work (again, I think that's perhaps a real stretch of law's intent, though).

2. I can't fathom a situation in which a LEO would have cause to search your offices to find an illegally possessed weapon (assuming it is).

3. Should she ever have to use it in a justifiable shooting, she wouldn't be charged with a possession violation, even if it were illegally possessed.

All that said, yeah, HCP is still very much more beau coup better, just because it clears up all the gray.

- OS

Edited November 15, 2010 by OhShoot
syntax

[peejman]

Personally, I wouldn't want someone who isn't serious about it to have a gun handy at work. It's a serious decision that needs to be thought through. If she's serious about it, she needs to get her HCP. It's not a decision to be made lightly. Get her to read this.... Like a Cornered Cat

And I think you've hit on an excellent idea for her Christmas bonus.

[Fallguy]

OP didn't make that clear, whether he has HCP or not.

Says his assistant does not.

It is an exception to unlawful weapon possession that the possession was "at the person's ... place of business or premises".

Does that mean you must own the biz, or just work there?

This has of course been debated, with no clear outcome, and AFAIK, no TN AG opinion.

Obviously, HCP is best way to go.

- OS

Your biz is not posted, correct? If so, obviously you are good to go, both legally and employment wise, don't even know why you asked about yourself.

As far as your assistant, see my previous post.

Obviously the odds of her being found out and charged with crime are pretty remote, but most folks want to be uber legal when it comes to gun possession,

so even if it were to be construed she is okay to carry in "her place of employment" (which I think is a stretch), to be truly legit, she'd have to leave the gun there, or to haul it back and forth daily, unload it, sufficiently separate ammo from gun, etc. What a hassle.

- OS

Well, real world stuff:

1. It might be legal for her to have it at work (again, I think that's perhaps a real stretch of law's intent, though).

2. I can't fathom a situation in which a LEO would have cause to search your offices to find an illegally possessed weapon (assuming it is).

3. Should she ever have to use it in a justifiable shooting, she wouldn't be charged with a possession violation, even if it were illegally possessed.

All that said, yeah, HCP is still very much more beau coup better, just because it clears up all the gray.

- OS

What he said.....

With OS around I don't worry that I don't get on as much as I used to....lol

[Oh Shoot]

What he said.....

With OS around I don't worry that I don't get on as much as I used to....lol

Wow, the highest compliment the forum can bestow - I'm humbled.

I'd like to thank the academy, Thomas Jefferson, my parents, ....

- OS

[Guest drv2fst]

As previous posters have said, I would not encourage anyone to carry, keep, or have access to a firearm if they are not willing and able to get proper training and practice. As a business owner, I encourage my employees to carry. I ask that they get their HCP and keep guns locked up if they are not on their person. I don't want any unsecured guns. What if someone's kid comes to work and snoops in someone's desk? Keep 'em secure and all is well.

[NashvilleStage]

I'd like to thank ... my parents, ....

...without whom I wouldn't be here tonight.

[DaveTN]

I’m surprised at some of you. Personally I think the HCP state requirements are a joke and I surely don’t think an HCP makes anyone safer, more serious, or more committed. I have an HCP because it is better than the alternative but I see it as a luxury tax. It’s a shame than some people can’t afford the tax.

[TNWNGR]

The non HCP employee can legally have a pistol inside the workplace for personal protection so long as she does not violate any of the conditions of firearms ownership. I would ensure that some form of documentation allowing employees to have handguns inside the business is available. Insofar as the training for a HCP goes, well it’s pretty minimal, it is useful however, and it does meet the legal requirements for applying for a HCP. I

I would be interested in learning what this ladies firearms background is; she just might have been provided enough training from a knowledgeable shooter to make her safe. Goodness knows enough people who’ve had little to know firearms training have protected themselves and others often enough before the prevalence of HCP.

[Oh Shoot]

The non HCP employee can legally have a pistol inside the workplace for personal protection so long as she does not violate any of the conditions of firearms ownership. ...

On what do you base that statement? Actual case law, or what?

TIA,

- OS

[TNWNGR]

Actual experence and research.

[Oh Shoot]

Actual experence and research.

Interesting.

Would love to hear any of our resident attorneys chime in on this one. Pretty sure I've never heard any of them opine about this particular nuance in the statute.

- OS

[Punisher84]

Interesting.

Would love to hear any of our resident attorneys chime in on this one. Pretty sure I've never heard any of them opine about this particular nuance in the statute.

- OS

I thought this was fairly clear. It doesn't say you have to be the owner, just "place of business". So I would assume with owner's permission you could be in possession of a firearm at work legally without an HCP.

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(3) At the person's:

(A) Place of residence;

( Place of business; or

© Premises;

Edited November 16, 2010 by Punisher84

[peejman]

I’m surprised at some of you. Personally I think the HCP state requirements are a joke and I surely don’t think an HCP makes anyone safer, more serious, or more committed. I have an HCP because it is better than the alternative but I see it as a luxury tax. It’s a shame than some people can’t afford the tax.

I agree that the state requirements are very weak. However, for that reason obtaining an HCP seems like step 1 to me. I'm quite sure there's lots of people out there who don't have an HCP and are much better shots than me. But it seems to me that if someone can't be bothered to accomplish something as trivial as getting the permit, what would motivate them to pursue it to any degree of competency?

[peejman]

double post, deleted.